Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

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Originally Posted by battleshadow66

Which is ironic, because pre-EW SMN was the worst version of SMN in Final Fantasy history. lol

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It depends if the only thing you care about is aesthetics or actually care about gameplay design

And if we care about gameplay design, it was still also regarded as the worst Summoner in the entire Final Fantasy series. Convoluted designs and needless systems stacked on top of each other that eventually brought the devs to the point where they gave up on the class? Better to start with a completely clean slate than continue walking down a road that leads to nowhere.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And if we care about gameplay design, it was still also regarded as the worst Summoner in the entire Final Fantasy series. Convoluted designs and needless systems stacked on top of each other that eventually brought the devs to the point where they gave up on the class? Better to start with a completely clean slate than continue walking down a road that leads to nowhere.

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And a completely clean slate they did create, there's absolutely nothing there. I love ruin spam; so glad they made it the whole rotation.

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Originally Posted by tearagion

And a completely clean slate they did create, there's absolutely nothing there. I love ruin spam; so glad they made it the whole rotation.

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Not only that, but history with other jobs has shown they aren't great at building on a clean slate.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

This is my perspective and complaint as well. What hurts is it didn't even have to end up this way. You could have had this redesign yet pave it with call backs from the old job.

This image right here is how to create a good summoning mechanic: 3 Astral Calls and 3 Umbral Calls. Astral Aetherflow lets you call the three primals, bonus damage when done in the element flow sequence, then after all three it unlocks DWT/Bahamut. Umbral Aetherflow calls the three primals and it unlock FWT/Phoenix.

https://en.ff14housing.com/images/pi...21069_img2.jpg

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Like, I know this is BASICALLY masterful blitz but with magic but I really like this idea. It wouldn't add difficulty to the job, really, but it would at least somewhat break up the pressing the same exact buttons until boss is dead issue.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

Thanks mobile formatting for deleting half my post instead of telling me it was too long instead of editing it down.

But the next part, your theming arguments you constantly make

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Aw, but you had such a good thing going. What a shame.

But yeah the only thing convoluted about pre-EW SMN was the opener (which basically amounted to "get your cds rolling" but there were a lot + the pet delay made it icky), after that it was simple resource management.

I am not sure how your language adds to your argument. Respectfully, please express yourself more appropriately. If your goal is to eventually see the gameplay and themes of old Summoner resurface in a future job, keep in mind that the people you need to convince are not likely to be swayed by your current tone.

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Originally Posted by battleshadow66

Which is ironic, because pre-EW SMN was the worst version of SMN in Final Fantasy history. lol

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You mean that YOU think it was the worst version. Personally I think that couldn't be further than the truth. They took summoner, and completely dumbed it down. Personally I wish game developers would just ignore people who complain that a class is too difficult heh. What do you get? Summoner 6.0

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I am not sure how your language adds to your argument. Respectfully, please express yourself more appropriately. If your goal is to eventually see the gameplay and themes of old Summoner resurface in a future job, keep in mind that the people you need to convince are not likely to be swayed by your current tone.

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And YOU'RE tone throughout all these past threads where you constantly belittle, berate, badger, and otherwise bug the former SMN mains who utterly despise the hackjob that is the current class does very little to convince people of your side, either. If you want respect then show respect in the first place, and you have constantly and repeatedly shown no respect for people who liked ShB SMN and other prior iterations, including myself on prior occasions. Thus I shall not show you that respect in turn, and in fact treat you the way you've treated others.

The fact of the matter is that a LOT of people hate new SMN, a lot. And your arguments do little other than tell them to sod off. As the points you do make fall apart rapidly. Let's take the theming one you constantly bring up, for one. Every job in FFXIV that has some ancestor in a previous FF title or spinoff, including old Summoner and even NEW Summoner, is a divergence from its ancestry, most of them major. Black Mage goes from spam your heaviest hitting spell and a weakness exploiter to a job that follows a chain of spells, completely abandoning those roots. White Mage goes from a elementalist healer who uses the elements that Black Mage doesn't alongside POWERFUL healing and POWERFUL buffs plus the ultimate spell of holy, to a Bishop (not a white mage, a bishop) who spams the same flashbang of a light spell over and over and over and does next to nothing with elemental magic AND has no buffs to boot. Red Mage goes from a king of adaptability and a master of support and filling in for other roles to a weaker black mage that knows a piddly cure spell, a rez, and a few simple support spells... completely abandoning its roots as a jack of all trades in favor of being just another offensive caster with a few shiny tools that pale in comparison to the incredible spell lists they had before. Astrologian goes from a master of buffing and buffing QUICKLY to being a mess of stars and special effects that doesn't even follow its own lore and has such paltry buffs that its one ancestor class would laugh it out of the room for being so weak. Bards go from support focused classes that were masters of buffs to being archers with a few piddly buffs that do jack shit on their own, and would also be laughed out of the room by their predecessors for how weak their buffs are. Scholar goes from a master of analysis and an item class to being a mishmash of tactics and war knowledge that has a fairy because Nym had to use everything at their disposal to keep themselves alive. Dark Knight goes from a hp-sacrificing DPS with excellent dark abilities to a pathetic tank that can't even follow its own lore and doesn't know what it wants to be anymore AND completely abandons its self-sacrifice roots. And so on and so forth, all down the roster with the SOLE exception of Dragoon.

I could go into much more detail than this on a class-by-class basis if you need me to spell it completely out for one so simple and hard-headed as yourself. But I think that's a basic enough start to show the holes in that constant argument of muh theming that you always insist on making.

I respect your enthusiasm and encourage you to direct it to the proper channels like a support thread for the gameplay style you want to see in the future rather than trying to change things back to the way they were. Right now current Summoner is the most popular caster on NA and EU, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Or better yet, why not create the following thread: "Revert the 6.0 SMN changes, show your support!" Once you get to roughly 1000 likes you might even be able to get a response in a letter like the Male Viera thread did.