So you're telling me..

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

preach! however I rather doubt anyone will agree with your logic unfortunately mate

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lol, probably not. I don’t care though. SE has their own target numbers for each job, and they will tweak as they see fit, and it won’t be because of some arbitrary hierarchy that the community wants to place on xyz job.

While this is merely my opinion and it’s entirely subjective, after having gotten all melee but DRG and NIN to 90, reaper and monk “feel” the best at the moment. If thunderclap didn’t require a target, that crown would go to monk in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Kazimere

Samurai and BLM are the only jobs in the game that have no party utility whatsoever. Think it’s about time they got some, then this whole nonsense of “they should do more because all they have is DPS” nonsense can just stop.

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Yeah lets just homogenize the Jobs even further.
Lets just make them all the same with just different colored attacks.
Or maybe Reapers should just take the L and get a bit of a nerf to put them in their proper place as a utility dps just like the rest ( same with MNK ).

I think you're kinda admiting that they're in fact harder, if being less forgiving doesn't make it harder then what does exactly.
The fact that Reapers are not '' locked into a rigid rotation '' does in fact make them easier than SAM.
It's even the same with SAM itself currently, the fact that it got two stacks of Tsubame Gaeshi does make it easier and more forgiving to play than in SHB.
That's not an opinion that's just a fact.

I dunno why people can't admit to this you can still like Reaper and also at the same time acknowledge that it's a lot easier to play than other melee DPS.
The reasons given why you and others like Reaper is even in and of itself proof of that.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

This,
Generally speaking, I can understand range doing a bit less dmg than melee, All in the name of uptime.
On top of that having team buff should do less damage than “selfish” dps. Difficult should never be a parameter, not only it is subjective, lack of proper way to gauge difficulty, also given content are design around every job could clear it, having a job doing more dmg because of “difficulty” is going to lead to exclusion of job. Those job exclusion back in old time FFXIV need not back

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I see a lot of fearmongering around '' exclusion of Jobs '' all the time and it has never been true.
Not even the top players care that much about it there's a ton of world first clears with '' non-Meta '' parties.

In fact if anything easier Jobs are more likely to have higher playerbases and a lot of people will view them as a safer bet.
One of the reasons why a Reaper for example is a safer bet over a BLM is because they're easier to play and perform with.
So if you're inviting random people there's a much higher chance that you're going to get more value out of a Reaper.
Even if they nerfed Reaper by quite a bit this would still be true.

FFXIV isn't WoW where the balance is completely in ruins and has been since Vanilla.
In WoW you could actually make an argument that a lot of classes and specs are just '' unplayable '' and that there's literally no good reason to bring them, but in FFXIV the difference isn't that big.
I still think it's a problem and there should always be a strive towards better balance.
But all things considered even if things stayed exactly as they are now it'd still be significantly better than most if pretty much perhaps any other MMO on the market.

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Originally Posted by Kazimere

lol, probably not. I don’t care though. SE has their own target numbers for each job, and they will tweak as they see fit, and it won’t be because of some arbitrary hierarchy that the community wants to place on xyz job.

While this is merely my opinion and it’s entirely subjective, after having gotten all melee but DRG and NIN to 90, reaper and monk “feel” the best at the moment. If thunderclap didn’t require a target, that crown would go to monk in my opinion.

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monk is taking that crown. it's not going under the radar completely but it is being overshadowed by this reaper hatred and its "LOLOPHEALING"

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I see a lot of fearmongering around '' exclusion of Jobs '' all the time and it has never been true.
Not even the top players care that much about it there's a ton of world first clears with '' non-Meta '' parties.

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I was a problem back in ARR when running coil. There was a time party running double bard because their song could stack, and. I have seen no XXX job when balance was only slightly out of hand. Experience all those in Aegis, a JP DC, would expect worse in NA or EU.

Again when there isn’t a proper tool to measure difficulty (it probably vary fight to fight), difficulty should be out of the equation. Only taken party buff, and mobility/uptime into account

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

That's not an opinion that's just a fact.

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I don’t think you understand the difference between an opinion or a fact. Your “fact” is actually an opinion and entirely subjective. One could argue that a free flowing rotation is harder in the end, because you can’t go on autopilot. That’s not an opinion, that’s a “fact.” See what I did there?

Giving party utility isn’t homogenization. None of the jobs are the same, and they all have distinct feelings to the way they play, as well as their own nuances. I can say this, considering I have every job at 80, and 10 at 90 right now.

I played Samurai all throughout ShB, and it wasn’t hard in ShB either. It was just punished for loss of uptime, as all the melee are. If you think reaper isn’t punished severely for loss of uptime then I don’t know what to tell you.

Reaper isn’t any harder or easier to play than any of the other melee. That is merely my opinion though. Finally, I’m not real sure what you’re trying to imply about why I like reaper. I like all the melee.

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Originally Posted by Kazimere

Samurai and BLM are the only jobs in the game that have no party utility whatsoever. Think it’s about time they got some, then this whole nonsense of “they should do more because all they have is DPS” nonsense can just stop. Who am I kidding though, people would just argue then that their preferred job should do more because it’s “harder.”

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Hard disagree with this terrible, terrible take. It's okay for there to be jobs that don't provide "utility," and it's also more than okay for there to be jobs whose "utility is that they bring high damage.

This is another thing that people who are actually bothering to take raid composition seriously should need to consider. Do they want to stack as many buffs as possible? Do they want a pure DPS to take up a slot because that player has the skill to greed super hard without dying constantly to stupid stuff? Or do they want to put in a safer physical ranged DPS that can keep applying damage as the raid learns a fight? A red mage or two for the extra safety of quick resurrections on demand?

Jobs should feel different beyond just being part of a specific version of a DPS role, and those differences are what force players and statics to make decisions about what to bring to a fight. That's another part of what makes the game interesting. You're arguing for homogenization of jobs, effectively arguing for the game to become more boring, and that's historically a very bad idea. And for my money, I've seen what happens to a pure DPS that gets "utility" forced onto it because the developers/players thought it needed it, and now Monk has an absolute mess of a kit, some flashy animations, is near the bottom of the list for jobs being taken into the endgame right now, and is on its THIRD expansion of reworks that have failed to turn its fortunes around.

Meanwhile, Reaper, designed from the ground up to be what it is, provides better personal AND raid DPS than Monk, while also providing stronger support for healing than Monk has in almost any incarnation I've played of it since Heavensward. The job needs to be adjusted, and one way or the other, its going to happen. Maybe for 7.0 they'll give you a half-baked pseudo-mudra system to concern yourself with on top of all that.

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Originally Posted by Kazimere

Samurai and BLM are the only jobs in the game that have no party utility whatsoever. Think it’s about time they got some

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No thanks.

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Originally Posted by IruruCece

snip

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I literally doesn’t.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

The fact that Reapers are not '' locked into a rigid rotation '' does in fact make them easier than SAM.
It's even the same with SAM itself currently, the fact that it got two stacks of Tsubame Gaeshi does make it easier and more forgiving to play than in SHB.
That's not an opinion that's just a fact.

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Yes and no. SAM is pretty heavily locked into a 1min/2min rotation. Yes the stacks make it easier to kind of work around downtime and whatnot, but you have to be extremely careful not to drift in your rotation or you're gonna start missing burst windows. So new SAM may look less rigid, but its still very much in lock step with a pretty strict rotation with only room to drift over into a single GCD.

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Originally Posted by Kazimere

I literally doesn’t.

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Yes, you literally don't know what you're talking about.