SE are leaving BLM to rot by giving SMN and RDM even more utility

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Red Mage's only curatives are on the gcd. Red Mage by necessity dumps 500+ potency worth of gcd in order to raise at all. Red Mage is still bound by its initial 1.9s cast time, if interrupted it loses not just one but two casts. With potencies as they are, e. Reprise is a hilariously bad dps loss even as a "mobility tool" so once Red Mage reaches the end of its mobility from dualcast and possibly swift cast, they've reached the limit of their mobility, unless you count their melee phase which is fair, but limited itself both by range and resources.

Phoenix tends to come out during bursts of damage anyway, and it's worth way more than a 10% mitigation every two minutes. Summoner now also has access to essentially two ogcd personal shields at will. Summoner has so many free gcds of movement that they have a "casting phase." On a category of classes called "casters." Raise aside, their sheer mobility is going to make them much more valuable for prog than Red Mage, especially in fights as unforgiving as ultimate where you barely even have a chance to raise.

Of course the question none of us can answer right now is if SMN and RDM stay where they are damage-relative. As it stands, there are benefits and drawbacks to both casters, and now that double caster is on the table it may come to pass that both become the prog mage.

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I did not say SMN is not strong, but it definitely have weaknesses.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Red Mage's only curatives are on the gcd. Red Mage by necessity dumps 500+ potency worth of gcd in order to raise at all. Red Mage is still bound by its initial 1.9s cast time, if interrupted it loses not just one but two casts. With potencies as they are, e. Reprise is a hilariously bad dps loss even as a "mobility tool" so once Red Mage reaches the end of its mobility from dualcast and possibly swift cast, they've reached the limit of their mobility, unless you count their melee phase which is fair, but limited itself both by range and resources.

Phoenix tends to come out during bursts of damage anyway, and it's worth way more than a 10% mitigation every two minutes. Summoner now also has access to essentially two ogcd personal shields at will. Summoner has so many free gcds of movement that they have a "casting phase." On a category of classes called "casters." Raise aside, their sheer mobility is going to make them much more valuable for prog than Red Mage, especially in fights as unforgiving as ultimate where you barely even have a chance to raise.

Of course the question none of us can answer right now is if SMN and RDM stay where they are damage-relative. As it stands, there are benefits and drawbacks to both casters, and now that double caster is on the table it may come to pass that both become the prog mage.

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Except it's not useful at all. Phoenix regen is just a 700 regen every two minutes. Unless you are playing with healers that literally do not know how to play, they can do that and more in a 1 or 2 oGCDs.

Reprise is not that much of a DPS loss as you think it is. It's like using ruin 2. If you spam it, youll pay the price

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

Except it's not useful at all. Phoenix regen is just a 700 regen every two minutes. Unless you are playing with healers that literally do not know how to play, they can do that and more in a 1 or 2 oGCDs.

Reprise is not that much of a DPS loss as you think it is. It's like using ruin 2. If you spam it, youll pay the price

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Right now Reprise isn't much of a dps loss, in fact in the right situations it's a gain.

In Endwalker, with the potencies as displayed right now so this could change... it's a ridiculously bad DPS loss, to the point you're probably better off just not casting. The bread and butter (cast / dualcast) will average to 138.4 potency per second, while Reprise will be 132 potency per second. Take into account that it costs 5/5 still (which is now 1/10 of the cost of a melee combo as opposed to 1/16) and that the average potency per mana is shaping up to be in the neighborhood of 16.9, that discrepancy is only going to widen further.

Also healers who are optimizing to the best of their ability will probably take SMN's Phoenix into account. Will it matter outside of that? Probably not much, probably about as much as a 10% mitigation will matter every two minutes will. That said, I will cede that I exaggerated with its capabilities a bit.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I did not say SMN is not strong, but it definitely have weaknesses.

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Of course it has weaknesses, I suppose your post just compelled me to do a surface-level comparison of what both bring to the table and cost.

SMN is nice but fancy hat >>>> stupid horn

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Originally Posted by Sunako

DPS output between RDM and SMN is not really big. RDM Embolden is better than SMN buff. You can not choose when you can use your phoenix heals without massive dps loss. RDM do not need hold Swiftcast for raise. RDM magic Magic Barrier can be used on any mechanic you want without dps loss.

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yeah smn buff is worse sadly , 5% 20S would have been better

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

yeah smn buff is worse sadly , 5% 20S would have been better

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In SMN's case actually not, because you can not use that buff outside of carbuncle. 30sec buff last long enough so you can use it before pull and start instantly with Bahamut.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

while Reprise will be 132 potency per second. Take into account that it costs 5/5 still (which is now 1/10 of the cost of a melee combo as opposed to 1/16) and that the average potency per mana is shaping up to be in the neighborhood of 16.9, that discrepancy is only going to widen further.

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On the other hand, Reprise can't cause Manafication to drift at all by scuffing your hitting 40/40 if you over use it, so losing mana might not cost you a melee phase depending on where the fight ends.

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Originally Posted by Gruntler

On the other hand, Reprise can't cause Manafication to drift at all by scuffing your hitting 40/40 if you over use it, so losing mana might not cost you a melee phase depending on where the fight ends.

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Yep. First sentence of my post: "right now, Reprise isn't much of a loss, in fact it could even be a gain." I don't mean to sound grumpy about it and maybe I wasn't as clear as I thought I was being since this is the second post about ShB Reprise which is a decent tool.

My statement about it being a loss pertains specifically to endwalker's media four build. With the numbers we're given, which may change, there will be enough overhead for melee combos that Reprise shouldn't ever be needed for that purpose, and manafication is now a flat 50/50 gain so unless you're already 50/50+ which would be very avoidable, it's a heavy loss to use. At the moment calculations are going on for how to use a triple combo and right now numerically it looks like starting in the neighborhood of 75/75 gives you enough overhead to drop 3 in quick succession too.

I hope e. Reprise sees a buff between the tour and launch so that it can maintain its status as a good movement tool and mana optimizer.

Because Black Mage is able to gain lots of MP extremely quickly, its version of a raise spell would probably need to be on a minute cooldown to balance that out, but I think it could work and seems reasonable to me; if you don't want to use it, then don't, but I really don't think it's fair for the job to still be the only Disciple of Magic that doesn't have some sort of a resurrection action.

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Originally Posted by MellowMink

Because Black Mage is able to gain lots of MP extremely quickly, its version of a raise spell would probably need to be on a minute cooldown to balance that out, but I think it could work and seems reasonable to me; if you don't want to use it, then don't, but I really don't think it's fair for the job to still be the only Disciple of Magic that doesn't have some sort of a resurrection action.

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There's no reason why BLM needs or should have a raise. BLM is the heavy damage hitter caster job, that is its role, and I don't see why so many people think every job should do the exact same thing.