Broil

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

Imagine thinking that pressing more than 1 button in a fight were all the damage is scripted outside very tiny segments and player mistakes (if you can even recover) is challenger/pro league level of play

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I'm a very, very average player myself. I Progged savage yes, but my numbers were never that impressive and me and my cohealer never really optimized to the max.

I still cast 130 times+ my dps spell even in the fights that supposedly required more healing. I still got bored out of my mind of Glarebroil spam. I tried AST. It did solve some of my boredom, but I was never really a fan of the aesthetics and mechanics.

The idea that only "pros" get bored playing healer is false. The idea that only the people who heavily optimize encounters find themselves stuck spamming their attack spell is false.

You can find plenty of grey parsers where the "filler" spell is used in most of the encounter.

Good this can only make the game less stressful. I love broil spam broil feels impactful like I said. You cast it and then it shoots off slamming into the boss. The difficulty of the game shouldn’t be a rotation it should be the bosses.

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Originally Posted by Karthunk

The above guy I quoted had about 95+% of his casts dps, which is only happening if he is ignoring a majority of the healing. I'm still not seeing how pushing 3 different buttons for some kind of rotation is going to make a massive game play change for healers over just pushing one button.

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They're being intentionally exaggerative to emphasise a point: you spend significantly less time healing than DPSing despite supposedly being a healer. And that 95% claim isn't entirely off base either. E12N, for example, has practically no outgoing damage. The entire fight can be handled by a single healer occasionally using Star.

It isn't that pressing three buttons makes a "massive" change but it helps break up the monotony. Warrior doesn't exactly scream complexity but you know why it feels good? Fell Cleave. Building towards Fell Cleave, Inner Chaos and inevitably unleashing Inner Release help break up an otherwise boring gameplay loop of 1-2-3. Healers lack such a luxury because unlike Warrior who can Fell Cleave second combo, theoretically, healers will spend at least 30 seconds pressing the exact same button over and over again.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

If there is just broil that means you can focus more on healing and less on rotations. Healers shouldn’t be forced to learn rotations unlike dps and maybe tanks. They are situational based on what is needed and rotations disrupt that.

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What healing? Content below Savage has practically no outgoing damage. Look at my aforementioned example of E12N. Even at release, you could literally never press a single heal and be perfectly fine. Star and Assize being used entirely for damage will cover everything indirectly. Tower of Paradigm's Breach never requires a single GCD unless people are just straight dumb and stand in things repeatedly. Healer oGCDs are so powerful and fights so scripted nowadays, they'll never have to worry about spending much time healing. And oGCD is no different than a tank weaving in Vengeance or Rampart.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

What healing? Content below Savage has practically no outgoing damage. .

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Not quite true. Healing double pulling tank in the Holminster Switch while spamming AoE is harder than any savage tankbuster and that's not level cap. It is a bit embarrassing that level cap dungeons are actually easier. Maybe it is because of item level.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

What healing? Content below Savage has practically no outgoing damage. Look at my aforementioned example of E12N. Even at release, you could literally never press a single heal and be perfectly fine. Star and Assize being used entirely for damage will cover everything indirectly. Tower of Paradigm's Breach never requires a single GCD unless people are just straight dumb and stand in things repeatedly. Healer oGCDs are so powerful and fights so scripted nowadays, they'll never have to worry about spending much time healing. And oGCD is no different than a tank weaving in Vengeance or Rampart.

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And this is where my major disagreement comes in.

If you are in a group that is on point then sure the healing can be light for some encounters. Classes can't be built on content being ran perfect. If people feel that sch needs two more buttons to push to feel a great sense of accomplishment and thrill while playing that is perfectly fine. Don't decrease the healing ability while on your dps crusade because there are a lot of people that need those skills because their group is not composed of Chads.

From what I can tell this is the only region jumping up and down complaining about SCH which in turn means all of this will fall on deaf ears.

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Originally Posted by Karthunk

And this is where my major disagreement comes in.

If you are in a group that is on point then sure the healing can be light for some encounters. Classes can't be built on content being ran perfect. If people feel that sch needs two more buttons to push to feel a great sense of accomplishment and thrill while playing that is perfectly fine. Don't decrease the healing ability while on your dps crusade because there are a lot of people that need those skills because their group is not composed of Chads.

From what I can tell this is the only region jumping up and down complaining about SCH which in turn means all of this will fall on deaf ears.

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GCD heals exist only to facilitate bad play at least in Shb. It is not a good thing. Tanks tend to not bother with their oGCD mitigation abilities because they have been constantly overhealed for the past 70-80 levels and they have never been put a position where they have to play their role because they actually don't need to, they have a GCD heal spammer at their disposal.

There is nothing wrong with making mistakes actual mistakes. In trials and raids, the oGCDs of one healer are more than enough to cover the healing needed. The second healer can utilize their oGCD into recovering the party from mistakes to a certain degree. We don't need GCD healing in this game.

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Originally Posted by Karthunk

From what I can tell this is the only region jumping up and down complaining about SCH which in turn means all of this will fall on deaf ears.

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The Jap player base resents current Scholar build as well. But, if the "healer" forums on this site are largely abandoned so if you're looking for specifics from those players you'll need to visit 3rd party sites.

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Originally Posted by Truen

The Jap player base resents current Scholar build as well. But, if the "healer" forums on this site are largely abandoned so if you're looking for specifics from those players you'll need to visit 3rd party sites.

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What site would that be?

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Not quite true. Healing double pulling tank in the Holminster Switch while spamming AoE is harder than any savage tankbuster and that's not level cap. It is a bit embarrassing that level cap dungeons are actually easier. Maybe it is because of item level.

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Which kind of proves my point. We have to arbitrarily force dungeons to hit harder because the intended way of doing them makes tanks and healers feel entirely irrelevant. The dev team isn't designing dungeons for tanks mass pulling yet the community has all but made it standard simply due to how undertuned dungeons are. And yes, it's ridiculous how easy cap dungeons are.

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Originally Posted by Karthunk

And this is where my major disagreement comes in.

If you are in a group that is on point then sure the healing can be light for some encounters. Classes can't be built on content being ran perfect. If people feel that sch needs two more buttons to push to feel a great sense of accomplishment and thrill while playing that is perfectly fine. Don't decrease the healing ability while on your dps crusade because there are a lot of people that need those skills because their group is not composed of Chads.

From what I can tell this is the only region jumping up and down complaining about SCH which in turn means all of this will fall on deaf ears.

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I never said the group was on point. Paradigm's Breach still requires minimal healing even if people are performing terribly. I've literally solo healed it when my co-healer had no idea what they were doing. And I'm neither a healer main nor some great healer. Decent at most. Having to occasionally slap a Tetra or ED on a DPS getting hit by stuff doesn't radically deviate from the monotony of spamming Glare/Broil/Malefic.

Fun Healer gameplay shouldn't be dependent on their party being a complete dumpster fire because those scenarios are often rare. In most cases, you'll have a relatively average run overall that results in spamming your aforementioned nuke far more than every other spell combined.

This was brought up before, but it bears repeating since it's a point that seems to be completely ignored.

Raising the skill ceiling does not raise the skill floor. If you want to come into encounters, throw out your heals, throw out a couple of damage spells, and see the boss die, that's fine. At the end of the day the content got cleared. Healers having something to do in downtime is, at its core, optional. Yes it would be desired of you if it was in the game, but I also wish everybody I played with in DF was a Savage+ level player. People aren't asking Samurai to be made easier because freestyle SAMs exist.

Even if it was something as simple as SCH having a second bar that filled on Broil use that could be spent on a bigger attack or something, that's SOMETHING. Or bring back another DoT on a different timer so we can think about a little bit more.

Those are entire optional and missing those doesn't stop you healing at the entry level. The entry level will still be healbotting. Missing those bonus casts or DoT timers is no different from a NIN messing up or just flat forgetting their mudras, for example. We're not saying that the skill floor should be brought up to summoner or HW MCH level or whatever, just that the skill ceiling be bumped up a bit for people that can handle it.