Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

"allegedly"

the fact they have a screenshot for that is a bit suspicious, no?

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What even is this take.

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Originally Posted by Keramory

Lack of actual long term, goal driven content.

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I'm going to push back against this one a little, because there is a whole lot of long term, goal driving content - it's just not necessarily battle content. Fishing alone is a mini game that could suffice as a whole stand alone game in itself. Gathering and crafting have a whole chunk of achievements that take hundreds of hours to reach. There are people who make it a point to collect all the sight seeing logs. There are people who found their happy place doing Gold Saucer mini games nonstop. (There are even people that enjoy chocobo racing, apparently, and I consider that the weakest mini game of the whole meta game.)

Sure, battle content is a slightly fancier treadmill with each expansion, but even that can be converted into long term goals if you're determined enough. I'm almost done with all of the original relic weapons, almost done with all of the anima weapons, and I'm about to plunge back into the hell of Eureka for those to boot.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

What even is this take.

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How do they know that was why they were reported? Who takes screens hots of the party finders they put up?

I don't believe they got suspended for the message in the screenshot in the slightest.

Oh, and the post in question was removed for misleading or false information so....

The biggest thing is NN. It is a toxic cesspool of idiocy where Mentors go to jerk themselves off and mediocre trolls make their lair. The best thing they can do with it is to just get rid of it.

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Originally Posted by Kyrj

The biggest thing is NN. It is a toxic cesspool of idiocy where Mentors go to jerk themselves off and mediocre trolls make their lair. The best thing they can do with it is to just get rid of it.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/ECCEjxHQb2Qo/giphy.gif

Judging by your attitude, the NN isn't the problem.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

How do they know that was why they were reported? Who takes screens hots of the party finders they put up?

I don't believe they got suspended for the message in the screenshot in the slightest.

Oh, and the post in question was removed for misleading or false information so....

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Eh? You can see their entire discussion with the support staff, the person is pretty clear that they didn't have an actual screenshot of the actual PF since, to them "who would report /that/" and GM's don't provide it, but if you've only put up 1 or 2 within a month period it doesn't take a genius to figure out which one sparked the trouble. And people I generally trust know the person, and saw the PF they put up in the private tab when they, themselves, were joining their own group's.

People've gotten in trouble for less, the point still stands regardless.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

I'll say it's not so much a boogeyman when someone received a permanent strike on their account for listing a Party Finder with: "Snape kills Legolas in John Wick 4". There's a lot of innocuous things that receive GM actions, and trying to provide advice can be one of those things purely based on the tone someone else read it in. It's not consistent moderation, it's not clear moderation and it does impact the community of the game to where, if, someone genuinely wants to receive critique/advice a lot of people will only provide it over a third party platform just due to the chance of there being a risk at all.

And while, sure, providing advice to someone who didn't ask is considered rude within this community, at the same time making a suggestion in order to increase the efficacy of a party has always been a component to MMO sociability. And someone bluntly offering advice isn't really, to me at all, something that should get someone a permanent strike. Maybe a "remember, you can blacklist people you don't like" statement and then left alone.

But just because I haven't personally been affected by something like this, doesn't mean it doesn't happen and doesn't mean it hasn't impacted player to player interactions.

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That's all very flimsy and you must know that. I don't know what PF listings have to do with it, but the one you listed is just spam or improperly using the PF, so if it's reported and a GM thinks it's violating a rule, then that's par for the course. Assuming it's even true, of course.

Just because someone is upset that someone said something to them, that doesn't mean the person will be punished. I have never in my life encountered someone wanting advice given on a third-party platform. I even had someone ask me after an alliance raid when we were both SAMs about a specific thing I was doing, and we briefly chatted about rotations and efficiency before they thanked me and left. Miraculously, neither of us got in trouble.

Since we're using unrelated examples, I get in arguments sometimes and have never received a strike at all. Again, miraculously, nothing bad happened. No one I know has gotten in trouble for just speaking. You're all just perpetuating this belief that talking gets you in trouble so much that people who've never even been in trouble start to believe it.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

https://media.giphy.com/media/ECCEjxHQb2Qo/giphy.gif

Judging by your attitude, the NN isn't the problem.

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My attitude has nothing to with how terrible NN is. Sorry I don't sugar coat it for you but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Or you have a skewed version of what is not ‘massively’ underperforming? Sure it is DF but expecting general competence is not asking for much though that is the problem this community has differing views of what is general competence which often leads to colorfully discussions in NN.

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Competence is the ability to do something successfully. If you can reliably clear content on DF with any random party, then you are competent at least for Normal contents in the game.

So to underperform for any given content would be to perform at such a level that would prevent you from clearing the content, thus making you incompetent for that particular content until you improve your performance.

The thing is, as a party-based content, unless there are mechanics that test individual performance, then it is the party's performance as a group that matters more.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Competence is the ability to do something successfully. If you can reliably clear content on DF with any random party, then you are competent at least for Normal contents in the game.

So to underperform for any given content would be to perform at such a level that would prevent you from clearing the content, thus making you incompetent for that particular content until you improve your performance.

The thing is, as a party-based content, unless there are mechanics that test individual performance, then it is the party's performance as a group that matters more.

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Competence is to do something successfully or efficiently. Which ever what one prioritizes depends on the person. Some may just go based off completion and others may go based off efficiency.

It really depends on the person for some group performance is all that matters but for others the desire of having everyone carry their own weight is important.

Completion in itself may be enough for you but it may not be the case for others. So it is not a one size fits all standard. Sure some may be fine with a full party of gray's and others may have a higher standard.