Open Letter to the Devs Regarding Eden's Verse: Reflugence [Spoilers]

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Originally Posted by Astrapls

I suggest you don't look to an adolescent's chest size to determine if they're okay to lewd or not.

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Where did I say anything about lewding anyone? I'm trying to help you here. If you want to be taken seriously, then use proper terms.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Where did I say anything about lewding anyone? I'm trying to help you here. If you want to be taken seriously, then use proper terms.

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Fair enough, but people will often use the "it's not pedophillia it's ephebophilia" excuse to dismiss concerns over sexualization of minors. It's semantics and arguing in bad faith.

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Originally Posted by SachiBear

Seriously bad take, like what the hell. That is so untrue and weird to say. Just because she has boobs doesn’t mean she isn’t a child. Her age is what it is, and the shape of her body doesn’t magically make her an adult.

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Precisely. A person's physical development isn't representative of their emotional and mental development.

I believe they're referring to technical definitions. In which case Ryne actually falls more of the line of ephebophilia.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I don't have a problem with the first outfit, that is lore friendly. I don't even have a problem with the Hydaelyn outfit, as that is reminicent of the Hydaelyn wall murals.
I just refuse the believe that my character remembers Saint Shiva (not primal shiva) as naked, where we see her in all her statues as fully clothed and in robes. Did Ryne picture her naked? Because that's kinda weird if she did.
Because Ranjiit certainly wasn't naked.

It's a really weird design choice by the devs. And one that I am questioning them on.

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I already posted this in another thread, but I might as well post it here as well.

Gods, Goddesses, and beings of a divine nature are often depicted with little to no clothing in many forms of art and literature. Since the primal has a halo in her Oracle of Light/Hydaelyn form and we're in a place called Eden, which is filled with angelic and (at times) vaguely Classical imagery, I'm willing to bet that they were aiming for that particular aesthetic.

Their use of Amaurot and Hythlodaeus shows that the writers are obviously familiar with some western European literature and art, so I'm even more willing to believe that Classical imagery was what they were trying to evoke with her Savage attire.

From a modesty/sexualization standpoint, I saw the imagery as no different from these:

https://www.italianways.com/wp-conte...-Bernini-1.jpg
https://www.gianlorenzobernini.org/N...%20Bernini.jpg

There's nothing sexual about either of those to me, and I thought it was the same for E8. I don't remember any gratuitous shots and nothing lewd was going on. She has the same flowing kind of sheet-like covering that many sculptures and paintings use, and she shows arguably less skin than the sculptures pictured above. She's just all anime'd up with Hraesvelger as her wings/covering and is exploding us with light.

I do realize that there are probably a few people that grabbed a box of tissues and ran off to the bathroom as soon as they finished E8, but I'm not gonna blame the writers/artists for that. They haven't done anything pervy with her character so far, so I'm not going to assume that was what they were trying to do with her in E8.

I'm also not trying to say that you or anyone else is wrong for disliking the art. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and it's a good thing to be protective of children. They obviously deserve to grow up in an environment safe from predatory creeps. However, I also believe that we shouldn't let culture stagnate, or society grind to a halt because we're paralyzed in fear over a few bad actors.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

I’m sorry, WHAT?!

Anyway, put me in the camp that also finds the design problematic, but not enough to condemn it because it’s a major exception in the context of this game, rather than the norm. The fact that people are memeing about it rather than treating it as something normal says a lot.

Although it’s amusing that Yoshi-P spent nearly an hour of the last live letter talking about this kind of topic in regards to modding, which just amplified this design even further.

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Yes, this is due to the fact that Yoshi is probably talking about pre-pubescent children.

The person you're quoting is basically making the distinction where it's ephebophilia.

I mean yeah, you can still find this issue problematic, but there is a distinction. It's just that people using "pedophilia" as a general term does conflate certain issues. Let's say your 17 year old son/daughter played the game and found an attraction to Ryne's model? He's/She not a pedophile is he/she?

One other thing, for those trying to correct terminology, it doesn’t matter. The OP has a right to feel how they feel, that is just being a human and of course there is some reason for pause, but.. the issue shouldn’t be whats the right term or what is sexual maturity for a girl/woman.

It should be about not changing art because of a few bad apples, being able to voice an opinion without trying to change what was conveyed. Trying to see other points of view. Should we normalize the perceived sexualization of a potential child like character. No.

Should we be able to appreciate the artistic choices whether we agree with them or not and have a discussion. Absolutely.

I refuse to believe what I'm reading right now is real.

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Originally Posted by Astrapls

Well it is relevant as sexualization is only an issue with female characters, and moreso when it comes to underage characters. It's relevant since it's women who always have to deal with seeing their gender represented as wank bait for the male gamer. Even Ryne isn't immune to that treatment.

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Male characters aren’t sexualized? Tell that to Raubahn or Aymeric, or other game characters, Link, Megaman, Mario, Cloud, Squall, Noctis, any number of male characters called “husbandos” some of which are underage (i.e. referring back to my original post Sonic a young teenager at that)

So it can’t be sexualization if it’s not a woman. That’s little more than virtue signalling and ignoring basic factual evidence.

Gender, race, culture, age, orientation, not one of those things matter, any one and anything can be sexualized if you try hard enough.

The fault of such actions are the personal responsibility of the person doing it, not the creators of the intellectual property.

So no your point is based on a factually incorrect belief that only women can be sexualized.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Male characters aren’t sexualized? Tell that to Raubahn or Aymeric, .

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Sorry, but what? Raubahn and Aymeric aren't sexualized at all. Never at any point in the story are either characters put into revealing clothes or put into a position where it might be sexual.

Men and women can be sexualized. But more often than not women are sexualized far more. Everyone has seen games where men characters are all dressed in reasonable clothing and then their female counter parts are all were skimpy outfits.

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Originally Posted by Korten

Sorry, but what? Raubahn and Aymeric aren't sexualized at all. Never at any point in the story are either characters put into revealing clothes or put into a position where it might be sexual.

Men and women can be sexualized. But more often than not women are sexualized far more. Everyone has seen games where men characters are all dressed in reasonable clothing and then their female counter parts are all were skimpy outfits.

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There’s an unfiltered google search that would like a word with you. Go ahead. I’ll wait.