Healer dps is unfairly boring

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Originally Posted by Corbeau

With the exception of Clemency, which is a huge DPS loss, the self-healing tools for other roles are laughable compared to what a healer can output. The existence of those tools isn't the problem, it's how powerful healer abilities are relative to the incoming damage.

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You say but they do add to healer downtime some just not immediately, seriously 3 phoenixs up is basically why am I here for those 20s, some can be planned around curing waltz, equilibrium etc which reduce needing to heal thus saving ogcds or spending those gcds on our 1 nuke spam others not so thus have the potential to but are unlikely to reduce.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I don't think they have to increase outgoing damage to force healers to use more GCD heals. I agree that the philosophy here isn't very good. I think all they have to do is adjust ogcd and GCD heals. I think ogcd heals should support the healing requirement, not outright take it completely over. I know this would result in healers doing less overall damage. I know this would affect encounters and put more pressure on DPS and tanks to push phases. And I say good. Where do I sign up?

I think a healer being able to solo heal in any encounter to be quite telling, and it happens in just about all content.

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I think it would take so little out of SE to do this. Like in Baelsar's Wall, it's steamrolled today, but back when it first came out something surprised me: In the packs after the first bridge there are some archers, these have two dots each and after a while they start putting these on random party members. I didnt notice at first, because the damage is just low enough to not panic about but leave it long enough as the tank pulled everything and cooldowns is against their religion, then things get hectice when you notice Whispering dawn isn't negating the dots and you contemplate spending gcds Leeching them off. I can't think of other dungeons that pulled this off: A threat or damage source that is relatively weak, but quickly ramps up in seriousness the longer it stays ignored.

Simply having mobs do more to random party members that aren't sidestepping another red circle: Random small unavoidable attacks. A heavy status before the red circle. Mobs doing push/pull on the tank/healer. Have to stand in damage fields to get the mobs. Mobs with heavy spike damage. Mobs buffing themselvs on steroids if not pulled in time. Mobs from another pack sending large aoes when out of combat. As I keep typing this I realize all this is already in the game: In PotD. Not only do you need to worry about the ever increasing stats on mobs, but that some, like the sand worm, will randomly unavoidable aoe someone if you're too close and not pulled, Bird of Palace doing quick-aoes that inflict confusion or that the Zu will bodyslam and stun aoe random targets. I think it could liven both dungeons and healer role quite up.

But they'd better include /kiss and /dote to cure Frog before adding in snakes that instantly eat you if you look slightly amphibian.

IMHO the truth is the healer changes with shadowbringers were an unmitigated disaster, they butchered scholar entirely and utterly messed up Astrologian, as for WHM it is the most playable but I seriously hate how they took Aero III from WHM it's a great spell for mass pulls.

Honestly if I were to make changes it would be the following

WHM

Get rid of fluid aura change it to water (Seriously water is the only element no PC can cast) make it a short range aoe spell upgradable like stone and aero so WHM doesnt have to purely rely on the stunlock breaking Holy all the time.
Return Aero III, have it share effect with Aero/Aero II like thunder so WHM can just aoe dot the mobs on large pulls once.

SCH

Revert the changes on DPS to some degree leave AoW but give back miasma 2 and center it around the target rather than the player upgrading to something else later.
Make SCH shields ablative not only absorbing damage but refecting damage to mobs that hit players with them as their unique effect, let them stack with AST variant.

AST
Change card effects entirely they're too damn bland, Make them aoe on all of them with 3 having a party boosting effect and 3 having an enemy debuffing effect for example
Give Ast an aoe dot and make Stellar Burst usable more often.
Ditch the stances make it so at lvl50 AST can both shield and regen and ditch neutral stance in favour of a lvl80 DPS boost or ability.

WHM is the closest atm to how a healer should be as it's the most flexible and fun right now the other 2 are such a mess I just simply cannot be bothered to play them they feel weak and rigid. The truth is EVERYONE wants to DPS its why people disliked tanking until they made it more fun to be able to hit back as hard as you get hit with shadowbringers and made AoE's more useful. Healers are the only type that got messed up with shadowbringers bar WHM taking the least amount of nerfs.

So a small question but are the people asking for more dps skills aware as to why the devs shifted to this direction in the first place? Im just trying to find out if you are informed. Like, do you understand why healers are the way they are right now?

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Originally Posted by HiroesX81

Like, do you understand why healers are the way they are right now?

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The reason is that there's a huge disconnect between how healers are played in the game and how the devs want healers to be played.

There really isn't a logical explanation. Nobody asked for the healers' dps kit to be dumbed down, because it was already very manageable. Some (inexperienced) healers complained that they were expected to dps, but healers are now expected to dps more than ever. If anything, ShB made things worse for those that wanted healers to focus more on healing. Healers dps is more frequent (because, again, they have more oGCD than ever) and less varied (because they have less offensive tools, so they mostly spam 1 button).

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

The reason is that there's a huge disconnect between how healers are played in the game and how the devs want healers to be played.

There really isn't a logical explanation. Nobody asked for the healers' dps kit to be dumbed down, because it was already very manageable. Some (inexperienced) healers complained that they were expected to dps, but healers are now expected to dps more than ever. If anything, ShB made things worse for those that wanted healers to focus more on healing. Healers dps is more frequent (because, again, they have more oGCD than ever) and less varied (because they have less offensive tools, so they mostly spam 1 button).

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^Basically this.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

The reason is that there's a huge disconnect between how healers are played in the game and how the devs want healers to be played.

There really isn't a logical explanation. Nobody asked for the healers' dps kit to be dumbed down, because it was already very manageable. Some (inexperienced) healers complained that they were expected to dps, but healers are now expected to dps more than ever. If anything, ShB made things worse for those that wanted healers to focus more on healing. Healers dps is more frequent (because, again, they have more oGCD than ever) and less varied (because they have less offensive tools, so they mostly spam 1 button).

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Ironically, they actually nerfed healing potency by keeping it at Stormblood levels. What's truly baffling is they scaled every fight to accommodate that lower potency, which defeats the entire point. Shadowbringer healers honestly feel like six chefs in a kitchen all trying to cook the same meal six different ways and it resulting in a jumbled mess.

What will be interesting going forward is unlike previous expansions where the raid healers were primarily complaining. Now a lot of non-raid healers are also saying how bored they are. Maybe we'll actually see some better results. It's one reason I hope they add only one new job in 6.0 (healer, obviously).

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Originally Posted by HiroesX81

So a small question but are the people asking for more dps skills aware as to why the devs shifted to this direction in the first place? Im just trying to find out if you are informed. Like, do you understand why healers are the way they are right now?

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My apologies. I can't seem to hear you over the sound of dozens of broils while waiting for a boss to auto twice before using a cast bar skill.

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Originally Posted by HiroesX81

So a small question but are the people asking for more dps skills aware as to why the devs shifted to this direction in the first place? Im just trying to find out if you are informed. Like, do you understand why healers are the way they are right now?

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Pulling up a TEA clear of mine...

Scholar: 275 DPS casts; 74 Healing casts
White Mage: 204 DPS casts; 123 Healing casts

That totals for 41% of their combined casts on healing in the hardest fight in the game. This is with not nearly healing at an optimal level. And I purposely pulled a run where they had to Raise and heal more than usual. I included oGCDs in those calculation, by the way.

So what direction did the devs switch to because it certainly hasn't resulted in more healing, which was their intent.

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Originally Posted by HiroesX81

So a small question but are the people asking for more dps skills aware as to why the devs shifted to this direction in the first place? Im just trying to find out if you are informed. Like, do you understand why healers are the way they are right now?

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yes and it is exactly as lastelli said.
So a small question to you, do/did you play as a healer in SHB and if it was in the past why did u swap to a different role?