Its ffxiv combat really so slow and boring?

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

I use those. They are clunky compared to accessing the default 16 buttons, where I would prefer to have my buttons that I'd like immediate access to. They're fine for less used abilities, but things like oGCD would be better accessed in the same 8 buttons where your combos are. But that's not possible.

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The idea is that you put oGCDs and buffs on the less readily accessible bars. Not your main combo.

Also, I added to my post; not to address MNK specifically, but to outline for you the differences between the current PvP setup for my main (BRD) versus how the jobs function.

I can add one for MNK though (very rough; it is not my main, and my knowledge of any optimization is limited):

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

They aren't. Each finisher is its own combo. Branching combos are not a problem.

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MNK does have different skills they switch up in their basic 1-2-3, though.

Here’s a very rough one:

Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Demolish
This would be the first combo, as it applies your damage buffs (Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes) and a DoT (Demolish).

Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch
This is your most potent combo. You want to execute it under your buffs.

Your third combo would look like this:
Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch
You need to refresh your damage buffs, as they’re about to run out, but you don’t need to refresh Demolish just yet; it still has enough ticks on it to last another combo.

Bootshine > True Strike > Demolish
Now you refresh Demolish, as it will expire soon.

Consolidating combos could be problematic for MNK because their combos are not always the same 1-2-3.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Mind explaining why? If it's optional, why would you be against it? You can simply keep doing what you've been doing all along.

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This game has trouble balancing the less complex stuff it has now, you think they would be able to balance this to be optional? I personally don't think so, so that is why I disagree. I don't believe they would be able to make it optional so therefore it would be forced on everyone.

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Originally Posted by Miste

This game has trouble balancing the less complex stuff it has now, you think they would be able to balance this to be optional? I personally don't think so, so that is why I disagree. I don't believe they would be able to make it optional so therefore it would be forced on everyone.

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So you're against it on an assumption. There's nothing to balance. The game already works this way. Nothing about the rotations changes. All that changes is that 6+ buttons become 3. That's it.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The idea is that you put oGCDs and buffs on the less readily accessible bars. Not your main combo.

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Buffs, sure. But oGCDs that you have to constantly wave in to your attacks? Why wouldn't you want them more readily available?

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

So you're against it on an assumption. There's nothing to balance. The game already works this way. Nothing about the rotations changes. All that changes is that 6+ buttons become 3. That's it.

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Arguing that it works in PvP and that it should work flawlessly in PvE is a terrible argument.

PvP demolishes half of your toolkit and to be frank, you probably don't need it, but in places like EX trials, 24 man raids, and Savage? Yea, this could be a problem.

There's nothing in PvP that's entirely stressful that would require knowing your full rotation intuitively as opposed to actual PvE content where knowing and not knowing makes fundamental differences all around.

PvP is just not focused on in this game enough sadly.

It works in PvP because of what PvP is, it's not the same for PvE.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

They aren't. Each finisher is its own combo. Branching combos are not a problem.

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Have you ever used Meikyo Shisui to upkeep a buff rather than generate Sen? That would no longer be an option.

How would a RDM burning mana with E. Riposte work?

If each finisher is it's own combo are you really even reducing button bloat by much at all? SAM would save nothing on AoE and three buttons on single target at the aforementioned expense of losing potential mistake recovery utility from Meikyo Shisui. That doesn't sound like an improvement to me.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Arguing that it works in PvP and that it should work flawlessly in PvE is a terrible argument.

PvP demolishes half of your toolkit and to be frank, you probably don't need it, but in places like EX trials, 24 man raids, and Savage? Yea, this could be a problem.

There's nothing in PvP that's entirely stressful that would require knowing your full rotation intuitively as opposed to actual PvE content where knowing and not knowing makes fundamental differences all around.

PvP is just not focused on in this game enough.

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I never argued that it works in pvp therefore it works in pve. I said that the pve game works like this already. The rotations do not change.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Buffs, sure. But oGCDs that you have to constantly wave in to your attacks? Why wouldn't you want them more readily available?

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I play BRD, a job built off of oGCDs (sadly, SB removed a lot of ours). I don’t have any issues.

My extended cross consists of two of my songs (Mage’s and Army’s)—I rotate these on an 80 second rotation, because they have 80 second cooldowns—Raging Strikes (also 80 seconds), Battle Voice (180s), Refresh (180s), Troubadour (180s), Second Wind (120s) and other various things like Invigorate and Tactician that I do not need to access often (or things that aren’t used often (Warden’s Paeon, Head Graze). My other oGCDs (Pitch Perfect, Bloodletter, Rain of Death, and Sidewinder) along with Minuet are on my main hotbar. This should be the case for any job. The only ones that I see having issues would be pet-based jobs. I don’t play SMN, but I do play SCH, and I still don’t struggle.

My songs Mage’s and Army’s are on my extended cross from HW days, where they weren’t used often. Muscle memory worked against me moving them around, so I left them there. If you build up the muscle memory, there isn’t an issue toggling between regular cross and extended.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

\MNK does have different skills they switch up in their basic 1-2-3, though.

Here’s a very rough one:

Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Demolish
This would be the first combo, as it applies your damage buffs (Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes) and a DoT (Demolish).

Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch
This is your most potent combo. You want to execute it under your buffs.

Your third combo would look like this:
Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch
You need to refresh your damage buffs, as they’re about to run out, but you don’t need to refresh Demolish just yet; it still has enough ticks on it to last another combo.

Bootshine > True Strike > Demolish
Now you refresh Demolish, as it will expire soon.

Consolidating combos could be problematic for MNK because their combos are not always the same 1-2-3.

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If Opo-Opo:

Bootshine, Dragon Kick, Arm of the Destroyer.

If Raptor:

True Trike, Twin Snakes, One Ilm Punch.

If Coeurl:

Demolish, Snap Punch, Rock Breaker.

Done. 3 buttons. Press the one you want.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Then make it optional. You can keep your button bloat if you want, and others can get rid of it..

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Have you seen this development team? They don't tend to do optional well. If they implement combo consolidation, they'll just go back to throwing us new skills and telling everyone who dislikes it to basically deal. Look at how Role Actions were handled. We're a week away from them scrapping the whole thing because their attempt at "optional" skills was universally hated.

Unless they do extensive changes, my main job will essentially boil down to spamming 1 or 2 repeatedly. We would need several additional oGCDs to offset how repetitive that would become, which defeats the entire point of less button bloat.