How to give advice

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Fight me! :P

But no i'm not exaggerating, there are enough games where this would happen if these people would act like that because most communities are not as special as the ff community.

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I wanna use Mabinogi for an example here, since you have no queue system and the game is a lot smaller in active players than WoW or FFXIV.

There's a person on the game that's known to do nothing in the missions and dungeons except pick up gold and drop it at the end. While weird, they aren't exactly helpful either to the success of the mission. He's known enough that plenty of people, myself included, kick him out of the party, unless it's not the elite versions, or if the leader isn't worried since everyone's already so OP.

We can carry him through. In fact, you can solo the whole game at this point. But even then some people won't carry him. That's what rep does.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

I wanna use Mabinogi for an example here, since you have no queue system and the game is a lot smaller in active players than WoW or FFXIV.

There's a person on the game that's known to do nothing in the missions and dungeons except pick up gold and drop it at the end. While weird, they aren't exactly helpful either to the success of the mission. He's known enough that plenty of people, myself included, kick him out of the party, unless it's not the elite versions, or if the leader isn't worried since everyone's already so OP.

We can carry him through. In fact, you can solo the whole game at this point. But even then some people won't carry him. That's what rep does.

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I could bring up Aion as one of the games i've played before and there was also no que system (maybe they have it now idk). If you had someone in there who did nothing or died all the time you warned the people you knew and they did the same with other people and so on. We had several people on the server who just got kicked out of groups because of that reputation.

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Originally Posted by JohnSeal

You guy are exaggerating OMG so dramatic.
You can’t really pretend to kick people for under performing in casual contents or that everyone need to much your standards.
And no way in casual content people can damage or greatly penalise you by under performing, maximum you need to spend 10 more minutes lol
This extreme cases of player so bad to destroy a team are so rare anyway, happens once every 50 instance.
People guys be understanding and less aggressive xD

Sigma you would find a reason or another to erase 99% of the community, I start to think you just like to fight lol
Just joking around, not get upset xD

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A couple of weeks ago I got a healer in Aurum Vale that simply could not do the first boss. We wiped two or three times because he had no idea how to play and was apparently overwhelmed by the relatively low level of healing needed to complete it. When he started copping an attitude on top of not improving, we kicked him. Between the wipes and the time spent waiting for a replacement, we probably wasted about 15 minutes and I'd definitely say we were penalized by his poor play. So is your claim false or do you simply not consider Aurum Vale casual content? Or are you perhaps the one who is exaggerating?

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

A couple of weeks ago I got a healer in Aurum Vale that simply could not do the first boss. We wiped two or three times because he had no idea how to play and was apparently overwhelmed by the relatively low level of healing needed to complete it. When he started copping an attitude on top of not improving, we kicked him. Between the wipes and the time spent waiting for a replacement, we probably wasted about 15 minutes and I'd definitely say we were penalized by his poor play. So is your claim false or do you simply not consider Aurum Vale casual content? Or are you perhaps the one who is exaggerating?

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"B-But that's different because in secret you kicked them for not doing dps"

Why does a part of me expect a response like that? Oh. Because I've been given that kind of treatment. Funny enough, here's another Aurum Vale story.

Had a WHM spamming cure on the tank, even out of combat. Confusing. I mentioned they didn't need to spam cure, because they're constantly overhealing and it's a waste of mp. I got yelled at by said healer for apparently demanding that he dps. Even though all I said was to not waste MP with all the overhealing.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

A couple of weeks ago I got a healer in Aurum Vale that simply could not do the first boss. We wiped two or three times because he had no idea how to play and was apparently overwhelmed by the relatively low level of healing needed to complete it. When he started copping an attitude on top of not improving, we kicked him. Between the wipes and the time spent waiting for a replacement, we probably wasted about 15 minutes and I'd definitely say we were penalized by his poor play. So is your claim false or do you simply not consider Aurum Vale casual content? Or are you perhaps the one who is exaggerating?

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My claim was that 1 out of 100 player at low level perform so badly that need to be replaced. If after three wipes someone can’t understand the mechs to follow or get an inappropriate attitude you can replace them ofc. Personally in the last year of playing I have been forced to kick maximum three or four players from an instance for damaging the team, usually tanks and healer.
Usually in a levelling or 50/60 contest as s tank I pull the first mob of few monster just to see the DPS and healer level, if three monsters die to slow or the healer got issue I adjust myself to them.
But still never kicked a DPS for doing a bad job lol

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Originally Posted by Angus

Someone tried to be helpful and that makes me very angry!

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And then they wonder why mentors stop caring.

https://i.imgur.com/Jf92WGH.jpg

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

When my standards are "Know bare basics of the video game by 50+" and I still see it enough to the point of not wanting to do the content anymore...

Ya sorry. My standards are just way too high. I'll just assume every player from here on is a blind monkey. You've cured me. Congrats. Oh wait... I actually think in some cases a blind monkey could still do better.

Oh, and if it comes off as aggressive, to say a blind monkey would probably be a better fit, I think that just explains how much I get to see it, and how much I've tried to fix it. Then again, when I give advice in even the most polite way, most respond how I must be using a parser, how I'm the most toxic player in the community, and that I'm going to get banned because I don't pay his sub and can't tell him that Summoner has dots and a pet and more than just ruin.

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How sarcastic lol xD

Still calling people monkey that’s not nice even if they are bad.

Anyway I understand what you say and if you try to advice politely that’s great. If people reply rudely to you for advising it’s on them at the end!

Question? (Rhetorical xD): When you started playing, were you perfect and knew your job like a pro? Or did it take sometimes before you could improve and reach a good level?

Attitude is important, you can be self learner if you really want to but you need practice and a bit of devotion for you class. Most of people learn with time and you can’t pressure them “too much” if you are a DPS you will enjoy kill things faster so you are motivated on your own to improve and burn them.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

If I see that someone is trying their best, maybe takes advice and improving or even goes so far to outright ask for it, I will never even consider kicking them. In a case like that, I\\\\'lAs soon as someone pulls the "I play only for (my own) fun"-card to excuse their slacky behaviour, how ever minor it might be, and shows that they dont care for the team and other peoples time that way, they\\\\'re out.

Personally I dont expect to see perfection, I expect to see effort and a sense of awarness of the fact that you\\\\'re not playing this game alone but with 3/7/23 other people. If you dont want to give them the courtesy of your best effort, why should they (want to) play with you? Why should they care for someone who made it clear that they dont care for them?

Its not about the dungeon taking 5, 10 or 30 minutes longer, its the attitude behind whats leading to this how people are gonna take it - is it someone struggeling, trying their best, listening to advice?I\\\\'ll

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I understand and I think it’s a fair point.
I totally agree with the “ putting 100% of you effort is a matter of respect to everyone”
Yes when I play at all level I am expecting people to be serious,not wasting people time and not nervous attitude at any time. Personally I never meet someone telling stuff like “you don’t pay my sub” or other unsettlingly responses lol
I think if you are a DPS you want see mobs burning so even if you play for fun, suggestion on “How to kill better “ are appreciate by most of ppl.
As I say many time PRACTICE is essential to improve yourself and motivate player can achieve good results.
Please you all Elitist player with short tempers remember the time you were just “Noobs” few year back. Not you Vidu xD

Anyway I would like to say that really often you can see people mistakes are obvious and can be easily fixed but in many other cases the mistake are on fundamental, the conception iteself of the class gameplay may be wrong.
If a tank can’t tank in a dangeoun because is not experienced enough yet, you can’t stop everything and spend ten minutes lecturing him/her on “How to tank” from cds rotation,positioning, aggro management. I mean I don’t because will take long and I am never seeing this person again.
You can’t spend long time sitting and typing to an healer stuff like mp management, when to life regen, how to use shield,how do not get enmity pre pull or how reduce it.
To DPS may be even more complex,you can help fix little basic things but not teach a gameplay especially if when you hit 70( more or less) totally evolve.
In general most of player that really love ffxiv will give their best because they WANT TO. I am a self learner, it took a while for some roles and even if I am a raider, a mentor I still want to learn more. Other people don’t want and can’t do anything about it, so don’t bother yourself to much finish the instance and that’s it (:

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Originally Posted by JohnSeal

Still calling people monkey that’s not nice even if they are bad.

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I'd give you a list of slanders I've gotten for daring to give advice, but I'd be banned from the forums for horrific toxicity. In comparison, blind monkey is a compliment.

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Originally Posted by JohnSeal

Question? (Rhetorical xD): When you started playing, were you perfect and knew your job like a pro? Or did it take sometimes before you could improve and reach a good level?

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Yes, I know you said Rhetorical, but here's a question. Did you read what I said, or did you miss the "bare basics" in my statement? Here, I'll break it down, nice and simple.

1 2 3

^ That is barebones basics. Can you count to 3? You're probably better than my average pug member.

Actually, I'ma edit this little note in. You also missed how I said 50+ content, not fresh level 1 players. Maybe we do have a blind monkey.

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Originally Posted by JohnSeal

Attitude is important, you can be self learner if you really want to but you need practice and a bit of devotion for you class. Most of people learn with time and you can’t pressure them “too much” if you are a DPS you will enjoy kill things faster so you are motivated on your own to improve and burn them.

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Is it pressuring too much to ask a tank to keep threat when I'm using diversion and lucid? Or asking a healer to not spam heals on people at full health? Am I too pushy by asking the BLM to actually cast a fire spell? Or asking a NIN to use combo's? Or a RDM to not hardcast verthunder constantly?

I'm not asking for savage level stuff in my expert. Nobody with any common sense is. But every time I see someone in 70 content who has completely no idea what they're doing, it only tells me Square's not pushing anyone to try at all. And given how with an alt I'm actively trying to do the minimum while still doing something and still getting by, even in the Stormblood solo instances people proclaimed were difficult?

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

I'd give you a list of slanders I've gotten for daring to give advice, but I'd be banned from the forums for horrific toxicity. In comparison, blind monkey is a compliment.



Yes, I know you said Rhetorical, but here's a question. Did you read what I said, or did you miss the "bare basics" in my statement? Here, I'll break it down, nice and simple.

1 2 3

^ That is barebones basics. Can you count to 3? You're probably better than my average pug member.

Actually, I'ma edit this little note in. You also missed how I said 50+ content, not fresh level 1 players. Maybe we do have a blind monkey.



Is it pressuring too much to ask a tank to keep threat when I'm using diversion and lucid? Or asking a healer to not spam heals on people at full health? Am I too pushy by asking the BLM to actually cast a fire spell? Or asking a NIN to use combo's? Or a RDM to not hardcast verthunder constantly?

I'm not asking for savage level stuff in my expert. Nobody with any common sense is. But every time I see someone in 70 content who has completely no idea what they're doing, it only tells me Square's not pushing anyone to try at all. And given how with an alt I'm actively trying to do the minimum while still doing something and still getting by, even in the Stormblood solo instances people proclaimed were difficult?

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Let’s take a deep deep breath xD please do some yoga or meditation you really sound too nervous lol

Yes you need to know the bare basics when you play a class, yes you are suppose to read and learn your skills, yes if player at lvl 70 are clueless it’s unsettling.
Still there is no reason to pressure players in casual contents,you don’t know people you find in roulette or pugs, or their age ( they may be young teenager how do you know), their abilities to learn still they have right to play a game lol

50+ doesn’t mean you are expert, some people do only potd till level 60 and they don’t learn anything’s sadly.
Most of gameplays totally evolve lvl by lvl and you can’t expect players to always keep up. Some skills are also difficult to apply and fit in a rotation without a lot of practice. But you need to give time then to learn at THEIR SPEED!
Tanks also can’t find difficulties if DPS have much higher gear then them, as a BLM a combination of 3 flares + 1 foul it’s mind blowing and can give tanks trouble anyway.

About saying SE should give more instruments to improve yourself and your skills I agree.
But please no drama, pugs and duty roulettes are not full of horrible players as you may say. 1 our of 100 is really low percentuale tho