Tanks and super pulls

Also to add my 2 cents: I feel you OP. Having leveled tank myself though, I can say it's not entirely their fault. Lots of DPS and Healers force that sort of mentality on tanks early (pulling more mobs without asking. Blaming them when they can't compensate or if they dont know how to get them off the party yet).

Personally, I never enter a dungeon/raid without tank/healer FC team anymore. We know each other, we know what we can handle. And if we get a pissy DPS it's no sweat lol.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Its called getting a idiot tank who couldn't care less about how he pulls aggro prior to a major fight. And DPS'ers on the top of that who are not entirely smart about avoiding damage.

Don't matter how many tools you got - resources are always limited.

I still got through - but id like the game to be fun...not a chore.

-Neph

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We kick tanks that refuse to hold aggro. And we tell those dps to either dodge or eat the floor. And even if the dps dont dodge, regens go a long way rather than dropping cure 2 bombs. Not to mention all your mp recovery cooldowns. One of which you will always have no matter how low youre synced.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

We kick tanks that refuse to hold aggro. And we tell those dps to either dodge or eat the floor. And even if the dps dont dodge, regens go a long way rather than dropping cure 2 bombs. Not to mention all your mp recovery cooldowns. One of which you will always have no matter how low youre synced.

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Bingo - I use regen to mitigate damage on DPS'ers - later games a cure 2 isn't bad....in fact its helpful - with lilies we need to max the stack to lower recharge/cost on a number of items.

Admittedly I'm still learning mastering of confessions and such but I get by ok. I use Medica II/Regen ALOT (Boss fights mainly) - as expensive as it is...its fewer heal sessions....and a kick of assize to help.

I'm sure there are more efficient ways to do that - but I've managed to survive. - Lucid Dream as well is a major help.
Again - its not like I can't handle the heat - It just makes the game....suck....as opposed to...fun. Is that so much to ask?
-Neph

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

At least as a tank i can casually "tank" - wish I could do the same as healer.

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Could you clarify what you mean by casually healing?

You play WHM.
On the healing end of a large pull, most of your job is spamming cure II i.e. pressing one button over and over.
The only other GCD you'll use fairly consistently is Regen.
"Regen -> Cure II spam -> Repeat" is sufficient for most large pulls.
The 2 button rotation of "Regen -> Cure II spam -> Repeat" is pretty hardcore casual right?

On some of the more healing intensive pulls or for the sake of managing your MP, you may need to sprinkle in some oGCD abilities, but its not like you're being asked to deal with difficult mechanics or anything while this is going on. Could you give an example of what you would deem casual? Tanks and DPS need to activate skills constantly and use way more than 2 buttons.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Could you clarify what you mean by casually healing?

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So, I have an FC mate with the same attitude as this individual. It basically boils down to it being easier to heal smaller pulls. Same with tanking. The time saved by mass pulling is irrelevant to them, and the added difficulty is just not worth it. It's not about efficiency or speed or skill. It's about being able to play with one hand, drink a beer with the other, and eventually win.

It's not a viewpoint I agree with, but it is common in this game.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Could you clarify what you mean by casually healing?

You play WHM.
On the healing end of a large pull, most of your job is spamming cure II i.e. pressing one button over and over.
The only other GCD you'll use fairly consistently is Regen.
"Regen -> Cure II spam -> Repeat" is sufficient for most large pulls.
The 2 button rotation of "Regen -> Cure II spam -> Repeat" is pretty hardcore casual right?

On some of the more healing intensive pulls or for the sake of managing your MP, you may need to sprinkle in some oGCD abilities, but its not like you're being asked to deal with difficult mechanics or anything while this is going on. Could you give an example of what you would deem casual? Tanks and DPS need to activate skills constantly and use way more than 2 buttons.

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Yes... spamming regen and crue II is so utterly casual and easy. Totally nailed that one on the head....yep.

-Neph

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

So, I have an FC mate with the same attitude as this individual. It basically boils down to it being easier to heal smaller pulls. Same with tanking. The time saved by mass pulling is irrelevant to them, and the added difficulty is just not worth it. It's not about efficiency or speed or skill. It's about being able to play with one hand, drink a beer with the other, and eventually win.

It's not a viewpoint I agree with, but it is common in this game.

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Pretty much this.
its supposed to be a game...one to enjoy and have fun with. When I say casual i'm not talking about sitting on my ass and twiddling with my staff.
I'm talking about enjoying the dungeon and not having to do critical saves 75% of the bloody time.

Yes...big pulls are going to be a common occurrence...lately people however are being total ass's about it when they go wrong.

Solution in my case is to find friends who know this and will adapt for the parties sake and keep the game going...make it enjoyable...regardless of mistakes or errors.
there are many viewpoints - and I'm sure most are valid - but the one that assumes we just spam cure II like its candy and its no big deal? Is going to cost you dearly.
Problem is most just assume we are bad healers cause we can't handle big pulls. - And just in case there's debate on my abilities on this? I can handle big pulls. I just get tired of having to walk away from the game because I feel like i did a 6 hour run for a 15 min dungeon. THAT...is my point.

*raises Dr. Pepper in toast to Dragonseth07*

-Neph

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

but the one that assumes we just spam cure II like its candy and its no big deal? Is going to cost you dearly.

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To be fair, as tanks, we need to make certain assumptions about our healers. If I pull 1 group at a time, someone will be unhappy. If I pull large, someone will be unhappy. Etc.

In general, I approach pull size by assuming the healer is at least reliable enough to spam cure II, then play it by ear. If a healer is not capable of pressing 1 button repeatedly, I do assume they are a bad healer. Not much room left to define 'bad' when the bar is set that low

If you can't be bothered to press 1 button repeatedly, maybe tv is a better option than FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by winsock

If you can't be bothered to press 1 button repeatedly, maybe tv is a better option than FFXIV?

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This is exactly why I have problems with people who think like this.

-Neph

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

This is exactly why I have problems with people who think like this.

-Neph

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no....i like needlessly spam healing with[insert basic cure spell here].....

Tanks that have this mentality is why I started tanking.

It's not good for the team as a whole.