Proposal: HQ mat-to-HQ mat conversion of 100%

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Originally Posted by Golophei

Just 2 quick obvious questions to this proposal.

1.Why would anyone bother to craft and sell any NQ items for profit if HQ materials guaranteed 100% HQ items?(I guess only for people who whored the rank up andover stock)

2. Wouldn't It completely destroy the NQ market?

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Hmmm, maybe the title of the thread is misleading because the poster of this thread mentioned to improve the HQ rate from 1% to 10%. (example : from HQ3 raw mats (iron ore+3) to Iron ingot+3)
Not really a 100% thing.

As for the NQ market, my opinion is that since many are spam crafting to rank up. As long as there's material, they will go for it, since there wont be sufficient supply of HQ mats to rank up and hope for HQ finish products anyway.
As such, it's inevitable that there's oversupply of NQs. I'm ok with it since my mentality towards crafting to cap is "Get prepared to lose tons of gils".

Which means to say that if I can managed to sell those NQs without a loss, that's good. If it's flooded in the market, I will just have NPC them.

As for fusing of NQs, getting chance to HQs, I felt that there isn't really a need.
"Since I'm the one who wanted to rank up by spamming NQs, I'll just have to NPC them if the market is flooded"
That's my mentality. (Just a penny of my thought, no offense to anyone)

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Originally Posted by Golophei

2. Wouldn't It completely destroy the NQ market?

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NQs would still be good for grinding, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Are you considering the possibility that a lot of people don't care about their exchanges being monetarily equivalent? That maybe some people want to give stuff away to their friends because they are...friends?

I give away shards and mats to my friends all the time. Even in the early days when shards were worth a lot more than they are now. I could have over 50 million gil now if I had just kept everything to myself, but I don't care. I'm not the only one who feels this way.

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No, I'm not because while you can raise your heart ring in the air and scream that it's so on the internet, I know that you don't have miners going out to gather for YOU, and as such there's not enough materials to go around a shell like you claim. Two town crafters leeching off the entire gathering population of the shell pretty much taps it out of any stray resources.

Tell me how many shards you've given away when you spend 3 hours doing nothing but farming shards, then we'll talk about the power of friendship and love. I know you'd like to strawman me into this harsh, cruel, friendless person because it makes your story sound good, but I do the same thing you do. I just don't lie about how well it works for personal reasons. Sloppy seconds, which is really all you should be asking of FRIENDS in this game that they got incidentally and not for their primary use, will not fuel a crafter to anything.

But hey. You keep telling yourself that the person who you've tricked into giving you gold sand and ore is your FRIEND if we're strawmanning here. Or rather, keep telling them that.

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Originally Posted by urhryu

"Since I'm the one who wanted to rank up by spamming NQs, I'll just have to NPC them if the market is flooded"
That's my mentality. (Just a penny of my thought, no offense to anyone)

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And the only one that will work. NQ crab bows are for NPCs. Honestly the system shouldn't even encourage them to behave the way they do and just spam glut until they get lucky, which is why I say change it. These crafters want guaranteed profit and fame from a mountain of common crap they create.

Subsidizing NQ trash products is as stupid an idea as subsidizing car emissions.

Now, if you want to talk about giving crafters a way to subrefine materials into HQ from NQ, that might work. For instance, a R26 smith can smelt iron, but a R36 smith can turn NQ ore into HQ ore. Then again, I doubt the town crafters will like that idea. They're hypocritical and only want the ability to turn THEIR trash into gold. They don't want NQ and +1 ores to be worth anything, that's what they use to spam-to-HQ.

I know I said on the first page that I'm fine with the system as it is but reading more posts I think it does need changing for HQ mats/parts. It should not be easier to go get a Brimstone +3, Iron Plate +3 or whatever else +3 from a mob than it is to make one by crafting with +3 mats. Using +3 mats shouldn't guarantee you a +3 mat but it should be easier. Finished items don't need changing.

I think a good step might be to allow touch up on mats, even if nerfed a bit compared to finished item touch up. You're almost guaranteed some form of HQ when using +3 mats when you can touch up a lot. I HQ2/3 Hedgemole Needles for fun with a +3 mat simply because it's a low rank synth and I can do at least 10 touch ups. If I could do that to brass/silver/iron I'd get an HQ ingot a lot easier with HQ nuggets from HQ ores.

I don't see the huge importance of gathering with the rank cap at 50 however. Doblyns destroyed the market for copper/zinc/silver/tin ores, especially +3s. Even as a rank 40 miner the rate I get HQ3 silver is a lot lower than farming those off doblyns. Likewise it's easier for me to get +3 Limonite off ants than off mining. The same could probably be said farming logs off mushroom mobs vs botany.

Where DoL is going to shine is when the rank cap increases. When we're having use for +3 gold, mythril, darksteel ores and tier 3 gems, ebony, teak and other high rank logs. This shit won't be cheap to purchase. At 40 I rarely see HQ gold and mythril, I don't know how rare it is at 50. I plan to have both MIN and BTN at 50 before the rank cap goes up however. Neither are/were a requirement to get GLD and CRP to 50. You can get gold sand at 29 and walnut logs at 15. I made a fortune selling HQ gem rings made from HQ nuggets made from NQ gold sand/ore before the market crashed and more people realised the e-peen factor isn't high enough to justify one more DEF.

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I buy all the HQ ores on the market whenever I'm in there looking for tin ores, and there are hardly any ever on sale.

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You BUY tin ores? Jesus, I should stop NPCing even the +2/3 ones I get. I thought that ore was useless/worthless, and it is to me, but people not realising certain shit is useful might be why you don't see much of it in the wards. It pains me when I see people synthing HQ ores with main hand getting 16/20 nuggets and they do it because they don't realise it has more value sold to crafters who will have more luck HQing it than getting a few more nuggets to make brass/silver rings with. But when an HQ ore/log only sells for 200-1k more gil than an NQ I can see why it happens. I was skilling up on HQ yew logs because of that.

Ugh, don't get me started on doblyns. They destroyed any influence miners could have hoped for as economic leverage. Now diremites are dropping +3 nuggets like they have Bessemer vats in their rear ends. You don't see mobs dropping easy grinding materials for any other crafts, through 50 battler levels at that. You have all these mobs that drop +3 versions of things I get headaches just thinking about wasting materials to make. And the battlers get PAID in shards and SP for doing it. The ease at which iron is hauled off by lowbie miners and the glut of silver on the market from battlecrafters drove all 3 smithing jobs into the ground extraordinarily fast. Battlecrafters control our steel production. They control the +3 ring and chain market, +3 ingot market, the high-end HQ BS nuggets, the the silver market now. It's ridiculous.

But yeah Tin ore. Who would have thought that it is your only shot at unlocking the +2 and 3 versions of the final Blacksmith hammer.

Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if some lowbie mite pooped tin nuggets +3.

The worst part is the higher mites that no one kills drop mythril nugget +3s, so once the cap raises and more shit is made from mythril expect that to make any HQ mythril ores you're saving worthless. I often wonder what fallen captains and such can drop. There's a lot of high rank mobs like that which will come into play with any cap raises. Knowing SE they'll go add some rank 60-70 doblyns that can drop gold ore too.

SE need to alter the loot pools of mobs that drop crafted items, ores and logs and take away the +3 versions. The only +3 items a mob should drop is something you can't get by crafting or gathering it.

Given this a lot of thought on the break, and this still stands. The turning of nq into hq has to stop just as much as the degradation of hq to nq for no good reason. There needs to be a +3 material market, now. The only way that will happen is to restrict hq materials. Remove all hq mats from mobs that cross over to gathering nodes. Tighten up the frequency that lowbies get +3s. And to empower materials, not crafters.

Turn hq chance into a yes or no question. Do you have hq mats? If no, nq. If yes, your chance of hq will be determined by your merits as a crafter.

The excess comes from too many crafters marrying up too common a material for too many low chances of hq.

You know you can synth gold nuggets now right? >.>

I have 12 of em sitting in retainer right now.

I still don't understand this proposal, HQ materials are pretty much there for low level crafters to have a easier time to craft a item that is way above their rank (any bonus to a HQ rate should be very little as it seems to be), at least that is how I am using it. HQ rates are already way easier than FFXI, rank cap in FFXIV is 50 and nobody is above rank 60 where HQ low level crafts was consistent in a craft and we are having HQ items for nearly any rank. I was never a crafter above 60 in FFXI but I understood the crafters that have reach 100 craft deserves the bonus of HQ. And I was paying extra for their devotions in the time they spend.

Crafting is already super easy in this game just more time consuming from having to spend 2 to 5 minutes in 1 craft (I never use HastyHand on crafts above my rank don't want to lose the materials).