Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by Thendiel

It sounds like you're asking whether the Zeta has to be full crit/det for BiS or if it should have slightly different secondary stats (like perhaps a little accuracy to balance out the gear set). If that's what you mean, then basically, Ariyala's isn't sophisticated enough to say. Even if Ariyala's could figure this out, it might lead to awkward conclusions, like, "meld full crit/det for 505 accuracy BiS, but meld 12 points of accuracy onto your Zeta for 535 accuracy BiS." For the sake of simplicity and sanity, it's safe to assume that your Zeta should just have maximum det/crit.

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set solver to solve for x accuracy where x is any number below 535, and probably lock in flint caviar so the solver doesn't go full retard. lock in aug chest/pants for faster solve speeds, since i don't think there's a single situation at 535 acc where they aren't bis. at 533 it spits out a different set, but it's worse than the current i130 bis in weights by around 0.8 str.(the one with 370 sksp). stats in comparison are (-45 crit -14 sksp, +39 det) . i like it better still, though. it's 356 sksp vs 370 sksp, so if you personally value skillspeed lower, or aren't as comfortable with playing at a higher skillspeed, having 2 acc zeta might be marginally better for you. you also still have the option of going for 9th skill bfb by statting +9 sksp to get the bare minimum of 365, saving you 5 excess sksp over current i130 bis (for me anyway).

if coil gear was tradeable and i got a spear, i'd trade it for a choker in an instant, even before i got my zeta. 12+ weeks and counting

Can anyone explain why the general conscensus is that the Flint Caviar build here : http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PTTV is considered the new BiS with the Zeta weapon as opposed to the Black Truffle build here?: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PTYA

The difference between the two builds is 57 CRIT vs 52 DET with only 5 unessecary accuracy on the DET build. Are people counting the VIT from the Flint Caviar as weighting the build to higher DPS? Black Truffle build puts you at over 7k HP which is more than enough for T13...

I wonder if it would be a dps loss to use the upgraded ironwork helmet over an hq wootz helmet melded with 18 det 25 crit 9 speed and 24 acc (needed acc at the time, dont anymore).
It should be but ariyala is telling me to use the ironwok so i figured i should ask.

234*0.227 = 53.118
157*0.327 = 51.339
29*0.176 = 5.104
= 109.561

177*0.227 = 40.179
209*0.327 = 68.343
= 108.522

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

I wonder if it would be a dps loss to use the upgraded ironwork helmet over an hq wootz helmet melded with 18 det 25 crit 9 speed and 24 acc (needed acc at the time, dont anymore).
It should be but ariyala is telling me to use the ironwok so i figured i should ask.

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Those are the worst possible melds you could do for that Helmet. Remove 1 Accuracy for SkillSpeed IV and it'll be good to go. The only time you'll ever want to use different melds the Wootz Helmet HQ is if you're tinkering around with Earrings.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Those are the worst possible melds you could do for that Helmet. Remove 1 Accuracy for SkillSpeed IV and it'll be good to go. The only time you'll ever want to use different melds the Wootz Helmet HQ is if you're tinkering around with Earrings.

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I know that it would be best to meld a skill speed iv instead of the accuracy III for the last meld but i wanted to know if in its current form it was better to use an upgraded ironwork over the wootz helmet, since i am not planing to remeld.

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Originally Posted by Docfiord_Fowling

Can anyone explain why the general conscensus is that the Flint Caviar build here : http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PTTV is considered the new BiS with the Zeta weapon as opposed to the Black Truffle build here?: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PTYA

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Because it's estimated to do 1.24 more DPS. (I suppose I could spare a Carbontwine for the visor and test the accuracy of that estimate....)

The reason Flint Caviar is blowing out the BiS lists is pretty much because of the sheer amount of accuracy and crit it provides. It's got nothing to do with the VIT.

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

Because it's estimated to do 1.24 more DPS. (I suppose I could spare a Carbontwine for the visor and test the accuracy of that estimate....)

The reason Flint Caviar is blowing out the BiS lists is pretty much because of the sheer amount of accuracy and crit it provides. It's got nothing to do with the VIT.

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Got a link to the data? Seems like a bit of a stretch

I literally just posted it, two posts above Sunnys post.

Stat-weights my friend.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

I literally just posted it, two posts above Sunnys post.

Stat-weights my friend.

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Yep, those are the weights. I'm looking for data showing that 57 CRIT does 1.2 more DPS than 52 DET.

Following your stat weights, players should go with DET:

DET : 52 x 0.327 = 17.004
vs
CRIT : 57 x 0.227 = 12.939

12.939 + 5.104 = 18.043

You forgot Skillspeed in the first set.

Of course DET point for point is better than Critical Hit Rating, that's a given. But you can't simply say "hey! DET has a higher weight so we're using DET!" You need to account for all the stats in any given set.

The reason why I tell people to go for the 411 DET set is because there's little to no RNG and removes latency issues for a majority of players.

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Originally Posted by Docfiord_Fowling

Got a link to the data? Seems like a bit of a stretch

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Using this spreadsheet simulator, apply this change. Enter crit stat into cell AF2, enter (skill speed - 341) into cell AA1. It will spit out a number in cell AB33; this is the typical potency per second of the GCD rotation + damage cooldowns and IR. In AA55:AD55, enter the stats of the gearset (the skillspeed value in this section is just there to look pretty). Copy the number from AB33 to AF55. The result in AI55 is the estimated average DPS.

I do have my issues with this spreadsheet (a big one: it doesn't account for IR/BfB timing) but its results are not so inaccurate it can't be used; quite the contrary.

Did Yan get his spear this week? lol

next week on dbz...

Ricky's been channelling the power of the world for his spiritbomb for at least 5 episodes now...

Lol. May be time to start getting those atma

do you think goku gave up

i'm hanging in there

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

do you think goku gave up

i'm hanging in there

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Goku never faced the monster that is RNG >:3

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

do you think goku gave up

i'm hanging in there

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Time to collect atma.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Remove 1 Accuracy for SkillSpeed IV and it'll be good to go.

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You can't remove one single materia from the equip right?

Of course not.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Of course not.

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Would be nice if they add this option, like for the relic scroll. Would make sense. Since the T10 maiming hands still won't drop, I gave a try to the wootz hands and I've been lucky with the melds so far but still I miss the last Accuracy IV (and this is going to be the hardest part). Then I'll need to re-meld the earring, since the melds are the cost efficient at the moment (1 ACCIV and 2SSIV). Over three monts of T10 and still we didn't see a slaying neck or a maiming hands. So sad.

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Originally Posted by Lucael_Shikaree

Would be nice if they add this option, like for the relic scroll. Would make sense. Since the T10 maiming hands still won't drop, I gave a try to the wootz hands and I've been lucky with the melds so far but still I miss the last Accuracy IV (and this is going to be the hardest part). Then I'll need to re-meld the earring, since the melds are the cost efficient at the moment (1 ACCIV and 2SSIV). Over three monts of T10 and still we didn't see a slaying neck or a maiming hands. So sad.

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I'm in a similar boat with the maiming hands. Haven't seen a single one since starting FCoB.

Gear is a crutch :P

Been missing my DRG ;; Haven't seen any slaying drops so far. Healing, caster or NIN (we never have a NIN either lol).

I did get the tank boots from t10. Hooray for parry ._.

GL Ricky, sad to see you still haven't got spear :(

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Originally Posted by HulveinBlitz

Time to collect atma.

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i thought there were only 7 dragonballs

Summoning a dragon to have it grant you a wish when you're a dragoon sounds absolutely HERETICAL to me.

I got the spear on my alt boys

a step closer

Least you seen it ;_;

Wouldn't it be the most troll thing if you never saw it on your main after getting it on your alt. Or getting it one week b4 Heavensward lol

I'm curious, how do you guys maximize your uptime in T10? That fight wrecks my DPS due to having to hold jumps while the puddle is up, Wild Charge/the tank moving Imdugud back into place messing up the timing of my rotation, etc. so I'm curious if there are any tricks people use to sneak in as much DPS as possible despite the mechanics.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

I'm curious, how do you guys maximize your uptime in T10? That fight wrecks my DPS due to having to hold jumps while the puddle is up, Wild Charge/the tank moving Imdugud back into place messing up the timing of my rotation, etc. so I'm curious if there are any tricks people use to sneak in as much DPS as possible despite the mechanics.

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This is a T10 run of mine a few mistakes here and there and far from being a perfect fight. Anyway this is how work well for me.

Don't hold your jumps. It's only a 3k damage tick. You can heal it back up if you use Bloodbath with Second Wind without your healer healing you.




When preparing Wild Charge, the melee DPS should be the second person in line at all times, and if you ensure you're at the maximum distance needed to attack Imdigud, your off-tank can fit in between yourself and the purple puddle to soak up the damage, and you get absolutely no down time.

And you should preemptively be ready to move as Imdigud is moving back to the tanking spot. you get Wild Charge, you can land 1 GDC, imdigud uses a cone AOE, then you move forward with him. That minimizes downtime.

Also, spread your DoTs on the son/daughter. What I do (Ricky taught me this) is to go H-IDC-P on the son, then H-IDC-TTT on the daughter. The daughter should die at this point. Then you reapply phlebotomize on the son, and jump over to the second(or third) set of adds and do the same.

I got a problem with jumps also. Despite beeing on BiS gear and my healer have said "You can jump and BfB whenever you want", last try we had hard times with it. Specially when you get a mechanic just after jumping on the thunder thing, like Pray, Heat or Tether. I know it should be healers job to top your HP before those hits land but most of times, I just hold my jump at least to the point that I know wich mechanic I'll participate or not in the given rotation.

And Bloodbath + Second Wind usually can't heal you for Jump AND Spineshater. :(

And for the ADD strategy, let your tanks know that you'll do it. The first time I did it, my tanks were so lazy that they didn't noticed that I was hittin the son (HARD). We cleaned this fight on first week and by then, you could not do that cause you neded to burn Daughter ASAP to minimize the number of Pray on party, so we just kept this strategy for long after we really need that rush, and when I started H-IDC-PH on Son, I got the agro, and everyone goes full retard when something happens diferent from what they'r expecting :P

The probability of you getting hit by the Purple AOE with a jump is extremely small either way. You should only be in that puddle for a fraction of a second. Hold down your back-peddle or "backwards" button mid animation of your jump/dfd/spineshatter. I've only been hit by a tick of damage a very small amount of times.

And TBH, if your tanks can't hold aggro from you doing half a full rotation, then I'm surprised they never lost aggro to your healers.

I guess my problem is, like always, latency. Last night I was playing with 200ms+, thanks free weekend!

And my Warrior is that lazy. He flashes/Overpower or something the adds and then focus on Daughter to "hold the burst". But he didn't realized that the burst doesn't exists anymore, and he should take care of the son too. Right now it's not a problem anymore, but I though that those advises would be of some value to someone starting those strategies, based on my previous experience.

The kind of time you'd happen to be inside the electric puddle doesn't coincide with any big damage, so a healer can easily drop a Cure/Physick on you.

Just have your tank pull the boss out the puddle. We do this even in last phase when space is tight, as long as everyone is stood on separate "spokes" (see floor pattern) heat lightning isn't a problem. I used to complain at my tank if he has left the bosses butt in the puddle so I have to go in it to land CT. He doesn't do that now.

Lmao, I'm reading all these comments (and as long as your healers are aware of it it's totally fine to take that tick between mechanics).

The first thing that came to my mind was "THIS IS WHY PEOPLE YELL LOLDRG GUISE." It was just comical as if everyone was whispering into Luna's ear "Just jump into the aoe, shhh, let it happen."

So what? It's not a big hit, and it's totally different from not dodging an AoE. The DPS loss from waiting for the puddle to go before using your Jumps is not worth it.

Of course your healers are going to be aware; there's this big "Party List" thing that shows people's Health.

I know, I'm saying its fine too. In the case of the original commenter taking a random 3k it's actually a relevant point to at least mention it when it didn't usually happen in the past, why not take a small pre-emptive measure? If you know damage is going to go out that didn't go out in the past you might as well warn them? Typical healers are probably going to be fine without the heads up, but it's literally just common courtesy if you're going to change it up and take some extra damage.

The joke was if you skim the last page it was a bunch of goons telling a fellow goon to jump into the aoe, literally that was all sheesh.

If you can't make the DPS check on T10 because you're not jumping for short periods, I really don't know what to say.