The Monk Temple

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Mnks soul are split between str and vit as their main stats. And oddly a bit of mnd, They really are very good tankers just without the def.

In any respect, it's not really worth it, since you loose all the mnk skills, FoF, dragon kick, are big losts so is shoulder tackle for what it's worth.

It's just not good to be pug after you mnk ever. Sure you loose straight shot, raging strike and virus, but that's life. I really loved virus as it's the only dang thing that can range, and straight shot is like pure awesomeness on pug but dragon kick is more obviously.

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And remember, you can still use Blood for Blood from Lancer anyway.

MNK as a job itself works nice with what you can get cross class. Impulse, BfB, Fracture, Bloodbath and... forgot last one.

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Originally Posted by Leonas

And remember, you can still use Blood for Blood from Lancer anyway.

MNK as a job itself works nice with what you can get cross class. Impulse, BfB, Fracture, Bloodbath and... forgot last one.

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You could use either Invigorate or Foresight. Invigorate is probably the better of the two choices at endgame.

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Originally Posted by JETgroovy

You could use either Invigorate or Foresight. Invigorate is probably the better of the two choices at endgame.

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Thats right. Atm on my 45 mnk I'm using Invig, Impulse, Bfb, and Bloodbath. Waiting to 50 for fracture.

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Originally Posted by Leonas

Thats right. Atm on my 45 mnk I'm using Invig, Impulse, Bfb, and Bloodbath. Waiting to 50 for fracture.

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I just don't want to level Lancer anymore... But damn if I don't need BfB and Invig.

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Originally Posted by JETgroovy

I just don't want to level Lancer anymore... But damn if I don't need BfB and Invig.

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Yeah, its two of the best cross class skills MNK can pick up next to stuffing Impulse into your rotation.

MRD is kinda like a red headed stepchild. Really wish they left Archer as 3rd subclass, but that'd make MNK way too op with raging strikes and straight shot. Or was that only for DRG with pug and archer for subs prior to release and change to mrd?

IDR but anyhow, on topic, MNK has some solid cross class abilities to choose from.

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Originally Posted by Leonas

And remember, you can still use Blood for Blood from Lancer anyway.

MNK as a job itself works nice with what you can get cross class. Impulse, BfB, Fracture, Bloodbath and... forgot last one.

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You get a lot more sj slots without a class due to the way it works, so you could get bfb,straight shot, raging, etc.

It still doesn't make up for dk, but it does make pug a bursting machine.
Yeah, its two of the best cross class skills MNK can pick up next to stuffing Impulse into your rotation.

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Originally Posted by Leonas

Yeah, its two of the best cross class skills MNK can pick up next to stuffing Impulse into your rotation.

MRD is kinda like a red headed stepchild. Really wish they left Archer as 3rd subclass, but that'd make MNK way too op with raging strikes and straight shot. Or was that only for DRG with pug and archer for subs prior to release and change to mrd?

IDR but anyhow, on topic, MNK has some solid cross class abilities to choose from.

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They originally did have arc. but I guess class balance wise this is why archers got so good. all the offense went to brd, and the def is split between drg and mnk...

It really doesn't make sense what SE was thinking... "ranger" i would understand, but bard?

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Snip for 1000 character limit.[/U]?

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Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Maybe they thought that since you're in melee range maybe you want defensive CDs. All I know is, MRD just doesn't really worth well for either drg or mnk imo.

What're you talking about? Bloodbath and Mercy Stroke is pretty nice on my monk. Bloodbath to help healer while he tops off the tank. Mercy Stroke for self-recovery on ads.
The relic quest walk through is here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rn-Walkthrough

Hey any of you did your relic quest yet?

Or know what materials to get for the pre relic version?

Crafting confusing me :( siigh

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Originally Posted by Jarinolde

I don't know about you, but I don't see how you'll have room for Impulse Drive at 50. You'll always want to pick up Blood for Blood, Invigorate and Mercy Stroke. Bloodbath is a nice skill to have to help offset Blood for Blood's major drawback, and Feint is good because it doesn't require you to dodge something to activate (unlike Haymaker) yet also allows you to refresh the slow without having to let it drop off first.

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Doesn't Bloodbath and Blood for Blood cancel each other out?
I haven't tested it but I always assumed you trade 25% damage for the health you receive. So the two abilities would negate each other in terms of damage dealt.
Am I wrong in that assumption?

It's been a couple weeks since I leveled MRD for skills, so my memory could be fuzzy(not using it on mnk currently), but I don't remember it having a damage penalty.

There's no penalty for using Bloodbath, or if there is, it's not immediately obvious - nothing on the tooltip.


Misposted in one of the other monk threads so reposting here for greater exposure: I haven't gotten the chance to run with a bard yet - and my SCH friend is always on healing duty, so no Selene. What kind of GCD are we looking at when they use their skill speed buffs? Does GL stack additively with the BRD/SCH buffs? How low can you get the GCD before you start hitting the animation wall?

So what do you guys think? Should I be going for trying to get HQ Gryphonskin armor over Darklight? Darklight is cheaper overall tome-wise for sure, but I have 1.5 mil with nothing to spend it on (besides waiting for housing I guess...), and can probably afford to get nearly a full set of this stuff. Are the HQ Gryphonskin stats better or on par with Darklight? I know Gryphonskin has 2 materia slots and some overmelding possibilities so potentially add in an extra 15-20 Crit/Determination/Skill Speed per piece, so I'm curious about you guys' opinions. Does anybody have an HQ set of Gryphonskin with any comments? Or is it not even nearly worth the amount of money/tomes it costs?

HQ gryphonskin is better than Darklight.

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Originally Posted by Riot55

So what do you guys think? Should I be going for trying to get HQ Gryphonskin armor over Darklight?

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How badly do you want to beat turn 5? Nothing up to turn 5 is so harsh that darklight isn't more than enough for DPS. Turn 5 appears to be the only content that you really have to squeeze out every possible point. If you really want to spend that money, it will certainly help purchasing some HQ gryphon with high level materia, to fill in the gaps of ilvl 90 gear you don't have. Unfortunately it's a bit RNG in that if you get that same ilvl 90 piece next week..you probably just wasted a ton of money. So if you aren't even up to turn 5 yet or aren't concerned with world/server first, I wouldn't bother.

So I guess my question would be is it worth all the money/effort to craft it? Or is it handedly beaten by relic gear/raid drops? It's hard for me to do comparisons because I can't really see the HQ stats especially with materia in to compare.

edit: posted after you posted about that. Still interested in it but yeah it might be a bit too high of an investment considering it's not going to last THAT long, huh? Is Relic stuff all better than it for sure? I only have a couple Darklight pieces and just didn't know if it's worth to skip it or suit up in that. I have a couple animal fats, what is the best piece to make stat value wise above a Darklight equivalent?

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Originally Posted by cfStatic

How low can you get the GCD before you start hitting the animation wall?

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With SCH haste and GL3 I can reach 1.94 GCD (no food). There is no "animation wall." Skills done in sequence will interrupt the previous skill's animation; the only "wall" we have to worry about is a 0.5s delay between all skills.

So I guess the technical answer to your question would be 0.49 GCD.

SCH haste will display the change to your Skill Speed in the character window. I've never measured the difference myself, but it should be easy enough to calculate.

@Riot
All the math I've seen claims primary stats(str) far out-weighs the others. There is no way HQ ilvls can compete with ilvl90s in str. Throw in the fact that the Vit and def stats will be lower for the ilvl70s, it's hard to justify going with the 70s. Then again the only time def really matters is turn 5 and even that can technically probably be done in 70s. If you're intent on getting a piece a ring might be the best. You aren't sacrificing any def that way. Otherwise, I've heard chest and pants offer the most benefit from materia, but I haven't done any testing on that myself. All in all, if I was legacy or had 10 mil laying around, yes I would fill in the gaps of my 90 gear with crafted. With only 1 mil, I'm not quite willing to do it until it becomes cheaper. Also worth noting that if your group runs double monk(hard saying that with a straight face) it will take significantly longer to get your full 90 set, so it would probably be worth it to get alternating crafted gear.

so using dots will incrase your dps? i feel like its a waste of time on trash mobs, maybe dots are good for long fights but lets say you only use demolish on titan how much dps will you lose ? also fracture over ToD or both?

also a question if you start your rotation do do you use your dots at the beginning or when you have 3 stacks of gl?

If I'm at 2 stacks of GL and I use demolish, will I gain the 3rd stack of GL before the demolish DoT applies for max DoT damage?

@Riot You wont be able to get a full Set for 1.5 mil. I spent already abt 1.2 Mil for 4 pieces. And they all needed only 9 Animal Fats, all other items need 18 and the ring need 36 Mats. I still go for some more items bec it is so easy to get gil that i dont worry abt not being able to buy the biggest house when the patch finally comes. If you want to compare some stats from HQ 70 and darklight, there is one screenshot of my craft compared to darklight in the DoH Section "2 Star Gear". If you have a good income of gil and you really want it its ok. I dont wanna sit on my darklight gear waiting to get 300 tombs every week and waiting months to be fully 90. Think abt how long it takes to get full 90, how much gil u make and decide if its worth to spend time and gil for gear or not. For me it is. Those fully melted pieces looks so delicious. My Mnk is not yet 50 and its good to know once i get 50 i will have some sexy pieces in my bag.

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Originally Posted by JokingCat

so using dots will incrase your dps? i feel like its a waste of time on trash mobs, maybe dots are good for long fights but lets say you only use demolish on titan how much dps will you lose ? also fracture over ToD or both?

also a question if you start your rotation do do you use your dots at the beginning or when you have 3 stacks of gl?

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Depending on the trash, you can sometimes fit Fracture/Demolish. Use your best judgment based on the encounter and your killspeed. ToD is best used on unfocused trash since the target your party is actively tearing into rarely lives 24-30s.

Remember that it takes 24s for ToD, 15s for Demolish, and 15s for Fracture to exceed any direct damage skill MNK has. As long as your DoTs last at least those respective durations, then they were worth it.

One theory suggests MNK apply DoTs as early as possible, then go through the normal rotation up to GL3, pop BfB/IR and overwrite ToD at 6s left and Demolish/Fracture at 3s left. This would get enough damage out of the weaker form of those DoTs - while still doing more damage than other skills - before overwriting with a more potent version. You could also wait for the DoTs to expire completely.

The competing theory is leaving off ToD and Fracture until GL3, simply because using them any earlier delays your advance to GL3. In this case, use your normal rotation with only Demolish in the third slot, then continue until GL3, pop BfB/IR and apply all DoTs. This is my personal preference.

Oh, and a note about primals: they have periods of invulnerability where DoTs will not damage them. You'll have to experiment and learn when they jump/teleport in order to apply DoTs intelligently and make the most of them. If you anticipate the primal is about to go invulnerable, do direct damage and DoT later!

Does fracture benefit from blunt resistance debuffs?
Did some short testing and the dot didn't seem to, though its hard to tell.

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Originally Posted by 0caid0

Does fracture benefit from blunt resistance debuffs?
Did some short testing and the dot didn't seem to, though its hard to tell.

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DoTs do not get the bonus from the Blunt debuff. However, the initial damage on Fracture and Touch of Death (all 20 potency of it!) does get 10% more damage.

Also, anyone know what a macro for Dragonkick --> Twin --> Demolish would look like? I coulda sworn it was around here on the forums somewhere, but I just can't find it for the life of me.

Spamable

/ac "Demolish" <t>
/ac "Twin Snake" <t>
/ac "Dragon Kick" <t>

or
/ac "Dragon Kick" <t>
/wait 2.x
/ac "Twin Snake" <t>
/wait 2.x
/ac "Demolish" <t>


both are not really useable first one uses 2-3 dragon kicks in a row
second one dont really works with our skillspeed

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

With SCH haste and GL3 I can reach 1.94 GCD (no food). There is no "animation wall." Skills done in sequence will interrupt the previous skill's animation; the only "wall" we have to worry about is a 0.5s delay between all skills.

So I guess the technical answer to your question would be 0.49 GCD.

SCH haste will display the change to your Skill Speed in the character window. I've never measured the difference myself, but it should be easy enough to calculate.

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I really thought haste would be much more than that; I'm not saying it's bad, I was just expecting more. The only clipping that I've seen so far is on the very end of snap punch(where it's just returning to the "home" stance), but on "longer" skills such as DK or Demolish, I've not noticed it at all. Even when using Steel Peak / Howling Fist.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

The competing theory is leaving off ToD and Fracture until GL3, simply because using them any earlier delays your advance to GL3. In this case, use your normal rotation with only Demolish in the third slot, then continue until GL3, pop BfB/IR and apply all DoTs. This is my personal preference.

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i'm kind of confused at the demolish part. should i use it while building GL stacks, or should i only apply it after 3 stacks? i understand the part where you apply ToD + Frac after 3 stacks.

also, like someone asked earlier, if i use demolish as finisher on my 3rd combo, would it benefit from 3 stacks? or just 2 stacks?

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Originally Posted by cfStatic

I really thought haste would be much more than that; I'm not saying it's bad, I was just expecting more. The only clipping that I've seen so far is on the very end of snap punch(where it's just returning to the "home" stance), but on "longer" skills such as DK or Demolish, I've not noticed it at all. Even when using Steel Peak / Howling Fist.

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I haven't been able to clip Demolish at all, and proble any pug or mnk would have tried over and over again in their life time. It's really annoying skill.
Tod you can sorta clip, but not really much.

The only real mnk skill that has any clipping is DK(you can definitely cut DK a little)....clipping for better or worse, doesn't really exist in practice.

I would love to clip howling fist, since that one is an off-gcd that doesn't really consider as "off".

Speaking of monk, even though it is not listed, but I am almost sure that monk job has inherited the subtle blow trait from FF11.

just tryed Parse to see dps and dmg on a dummy and ITS BROKEN it reads dots but its full duration in 1 second. you ca nspamm dots over and over again and see your dmg goes sky high lol

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Originally Posted by Chokee

i'm kind of confused at the demolish part. should i use it while building GL stacks, or should i only apply it after 3 stacks? i understand the part where you apply ToD + Frac after 3 stacks.

also, like someone asked earlier, if i use demolish as finisher on my 3rd combo, would it benefit from 3 stacks? or just 2 stacks?

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I'll break it down from the start of the fight:

DK/Boot > Twin > Demolish (GL1)
DK > True > Snap (GL2)
Boot > Twin > Snap (GL3)
[Demolish will be on the way out]
DK > True > Demolish > Fracture > ToD

Attacks with added effects do not benefit from the bonuses they grant on use. So if you use Demolish with GL2 active, it will apply the DoT with GL2's bonus.

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

Speaking of monk, even though it is not listed, but I am almost sure that monk job has inherited the subtle blow trait from FF11.

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As far as I'm aware, no. Because in 2.0 TP generation is independent of hitting things or being hit. It regenerates at a rate of 60TP every three seconds while in combat and 100TP every three seconds out of combat.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

I'll break it down from the start of the fight:

DK/Boot > Twin > Demolish (GL1)
DK > True > Snap (GL2)
Boot > Twin > Snap (GL3)
[Demolish will be on the way out]
DK > True > Demolish > Fracture > ToD

Attacks with added effects do not benefit from the bonuses they grant on use. So if you use Demolish with GL2 active, it will apply the DoT with GL2's bonus.

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You can acutally see the order of the "buffs" on your screen at the skill time.

damage
(debuff)
form
buff

in order of scroll down.

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Originally Posted by JokingCat

just tryed Parse to see dps and dmg on a dummy and ITS BROKEN it reads dots but its full duration in 1 second. you ca nspamm dots over and over again and see your dmg goes sky high lol

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It's not broken, it works like that. If you read their releases you will see they have to simulate the DoTs in order to get damage, since they're untracked.

Of course you can boost damage up IN THE PARSER by DoTing like madman, since the parser counts each appliance, however you would be cheating on yourself.

If you use the parser with common sense it'll be good to get general damage ideas

Is mercy stroke useful for us? It would be the highest single burst hit available to monks/pugs.

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Originally Posted by mr_wazzabi

Is mercy stroke useful for us? It would be the highest single burst hit available to monks/pugs.

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It's free and has incredible potency so I'd say it's worth using whenever possible.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

As far as I'm aware, no. Because in 2.0 TP generation is independent of hitting things or being hit. It regenerates at a rate of 30TP every three seconds while in combat and 100TP every three seconds out of combat.

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Is this based on supported facts?

I know subtle blow is not listed. But let us be real here. When is the last time you grabbed hate. I often look at the hate meter and the simple fact is, our hate meter hardly ever fills up. 3 shots from a bard and the mob is moving back and forth between tank and bard. You can zerg it for 10 minutes as a monk and the mob never turns your way.

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

Is this based on supported facts?

I know subtle blow is not listed. But let us be real here. When is the last time you grabbed hate. I often look at the hate meter and the simple fact is, our hate meter hardly ever fills up. 3 shots from a bard and the mob is moving back and forth between tank and bard. You can zerg it for 10 minutes as a monk and the mob never turns your way.

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Unless I'm missing something, the only thing the Subtle Blow trait did was reduce how much TP the enemy received from you hitting them and has nothing at all to do with threat. Since TP in this game is completely independent of hitting or being hit it's a safe bet that no, it isn't in ARR as a hidden trait.

As for pulling threat it's difficult to compare Monk and Bard like that. We're sustained DPS and Bards are much more about burst. A Bard blowing their CDs and frontloading a lot of damage at the start is a lot more likely to rip threat than a Monk doing the same, but I've pulled threat on a number of occasions from a lucky chain of crits.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

It's free and has incredible potency so I'd say it's worth using whenever possible.

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it's really long CD and stringent restriction makes it meh ish though. It does work since the last 20% is usually the hardest part.

I can't say for or againist it...for all the good it does, it's still a meh skill. Sometimes you do better with other skills instead.