Steam payment HUGE price increase!

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

So the average person there can't even rent an apartment?!? That's so awful :(

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Families usually live together. Kids tend to stay with their parents until they marry which can be well after they start working. So everyone contributes.

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Originally Posted by Xandos

Does the price increase hurt? You bet it does! Is this going to cause players to stop playing? I'm sure it will. I may actually lose a friend by this, I'll have to talk to them and see if they can still pay/play. Should players request a refund from Steam or SE? If you feel like you have been taken advantage of you should absolutely request a refund. I wish you all luck.

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Like it's been said a lot of times in this thread, the main issue here is the fact that this change happened without any previous warning. We do understand why it happened. All of this does not change the fact a company cannot simply make such a huge change a month after many people bought Stormblood without even letting these customers know they won't be paying the usual price for their subscription.

The decision can be considered final and unconstrained

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Dear Ekaterina,

Thank you for contacting the Square Enix Support Centre.


We recently made adjustments to how prices in Brazilian Real and Russian Rubles are calculated for Steam users. These changes were made to bring prices using these currencies in-line with the global pricing structure based on current exchange rates. In addition, these adjustments mean that prices now accurately reflect the pricing provided on our other official channels and currencies.

Please go to the following link for our official post on the matter:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4320604

If you wish to leave further feedback on these changes ? we would recommend that you do so on this thread. We are very sorry for any confusion or disappointment these changes may have caused.


Kind regards,

The Square Enix Support Centre team

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I stand the flag where SE should have noticed beforehand.

About pricing it's understandable they change for whatever reason.

We need an official statement about how they will compensate us, this was too shady.

Well, what can I say ... I thought I would stay in the game for a long time, but not for that kind of money and not with such an attitude towards myself. You feel like a third-class person. Now we will be looking for friends with another game. And yes, if the company did this to us now, then where is the guarantee that it will not do the same to players from other countries who pay in dollars and euros. So, I think this situation with players from Russia and Brazil is an occasion to think for all players.

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Originally Posted by Xandos

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They don't disclose actual values, but we can infer that from the data we have from other games.

- 13USD is probably far, far, *far* more than what each active character costs to them. Numbers from World of Warcraft from years ago point that back in 2008, only 4 years after release, what they got in revenue from subs every 2 months was more than all of their expensives with servers, staff and development *for the whole 4 years*. Keep in mind that currently they not only have different regional prices, how they also foster a degree of free-to-play, in a sense (using the Token economy).
- There are multiple MMORPGs that are also huge and don't rely on subscriptions. They rely mostly on microtransactions and/or a flat initial price, plus external merch. Do mind that FFXIV does all four.
- FFXIV itself is sold through regional prices. FFXIV+Stormblood costs 105,99BRL on Steam, instead of ~200BRL (60USD).

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Originally Posted by Velxeor

"If you wish to leave further feedback on these changes?"

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http://i.imgur.com/TlJIua1.jpg

Funny how their "official response on the matter" is a measly forum post buried in the middle of a 45-page (and expanding) thread that is almost entirely against the decision, with strong arguments against either the decision itself, the handling of its player base while implementing this decision, or both.

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Originally Posted by aekh

Like it's been said a lot of times in this thread, the main issue here is the fact that this change happened without any previous warning. We do understand why it happened. All of this does not change the fact a company cannot simply make such a huge change a month after many people bought Stormblood without even letting these customers know they won't be paying the usual price for their subscription.

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The price change is what I am trying to determine. Was there previously a price discrepancy between the Mogstation and Steam, with Steam being cheaper? Did this change correct that discrepancy? Or was this just a flat increase across both platforms? If this change just fixed the discrepancy and the Mogstation price never changed, then this was not a price increase and SE is under no obligation to inform their users as per the EULA. If this was a flat increase across the board then they totally owed people fair notice before the change and should honor requests for refunds.

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

I'm really curious now, I like to learn about other countries.

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The most illustrative example of the differences of the realities between US and BR I can give is this-
I am American and my husband is Brazilian. When I first met him I was going to college in a tiny city (~25,000 pop) in the rural midwestern US and working just under 40 hours per week as a cashier at Walmart. He was the head of I.T. for a decently sized tax agency located in the largest (and one of the wealthiest) cities in the entirety of South America, let alone his country.

Converted to raw USD, I was making about $200 more per month than he was. And this was ten years ago when the dollar was about x2 real, now it is x3.

I'm not even going to get into the argument of whether or not it's "fair" that the two countries should pay the same in USD but it really torques me off that they 1- never bothered to announce the change, 2- it took them two days to even acknowledge it to the community, and 3- dropped this on us immediately after the timer to refund the DLC expired. All this is especially galling coming on the heels of the debacle from a couple of weeks ago where there was a week+ where all non-NA players trying to log on to NA servers couldn't stay connected without a VPN. We got absolutely no customer support during that time and even getting SE to acknowledge us in the tech support forums was like pulling teeth.

I love this game, really I do, but my husband and I are going to have to sit down and think long and hard if we really want to give R$100 a month to a company that continually treats us like something they stepped in.

@Xandos
1. The price is the same as everyone, because you purchase using Dollars, or that was always with me. 12.99$ for Entry and 14.99$ for Standard.
2. Roughly around 32~36R$. Currency being Real and that converted goes to around 10~11$.
3. Same as before. The only thing affected here was Steam.
4. The cost of a Standard build is now 47R$. The currency used is again Real and that converts to roughly 15$.

This is now being covered by popular Youtuber SidAlpha:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXXjJE0kQtY

Not sure if this was past on. But I pay in Canadian dollars and exchange will be whatever it is on day its charged. Since I pay with credit card, they go with going exchange rate and a small flat fee. But some credit cards have a % on the amount.

I am actually just waiting for my sub to run out $35 a month Canadian is a new game every 2 months at least. Also if you miss 2 years 15 dollars will skip everything for you anyways.

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Originally Posted by XemnasCorvus

This is now being covered by popular Youtuber SidAlpha:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXXjJE0kQtY

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It would be nice if some other sites discussed the issues with the game. But literally all I see is how awesome the team is and the game has no issues.

So, i saw some people arguing about minimum wage values here in Brazil... and i did some math:
As of today, the minimum wage is R$ 937,00 / $299,52. (3,13 : 1)

A pizza around here (my city) costs 38~46. So yeah... a month of game time costs the same amount of a pizza (not too bad imo).
My last electricity bill was R$ 167,28 (which is considered moderate... i think).

Steam monthly (Entry) subs went from 9,27 to 12,99 (giving the conversion value at that time).

I don't play XIV on steam but i can assure this won't change anything for me.

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Originally Posted by Luxerion

@Xandos
1. The price is the same as everyone, because you purchase using Dollars, or that was always with me. 12.99$ for Entry and 14.99$ for Standard.
2. Roughly around 32~36R$. Currency being Real and that converted goes to around 10~11$.
3. Same as before. The only thing affected here was Steam.
4. The cost of a Standard build is now 47R$. The currency used is again Real and that converts to roughly 15$.

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Thank you for answering these questions for me. It sounds to me like SE did not break their EULA then. The price on the official account management system never changed. The price on third party sites is what was affected.

I'm sure I will get all sorts of hate but I'm going to say it anyways. If you didn't complain about subscription prices being cheaper on Steam than on Mogstation before the change, then you have no right to complain that subscription prices are more expensive on Steam than on Mogstation after the change.

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Originally Posted by Xandos

Thank you for answering these questions for me. It sounds to me like SE did not break their EULA then. The price on the official account management system never changed. The price on third party sites is what was affected.

I'm sure I will get all sorts of hate but I'm going to say it anyways. If you didn't complain about subscription prices being cheaper on Steam than on Mogstation before the change, then you have no right to complain that subscription prices are more expensive on Steam than on Mogstation after the change.

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Of course we do! We are customers, we need transparency when we subscribe your service! Paying more or less is no excuse to not respect your customers. The ends don't justify the means.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

It would be nice if some other sites discussed the issues with the game.

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Anyone can keep doing it. I was one of the people who contacted Sid, and I also contacted one other journalist, but all of us can keep trying contact people.

Contact Kotaku, IGN, Polygon. Voices like Jim Sterling or communities like NeoGAF. Editors like Jason Schreier. Heck, contact FFXIV youtubers like MrHappy or Larry, or McStronghuge.
Keep commenting and spreading the word about this thread, or on the FFXIV subreddit, or Steam.

We can make Square Enix take this matter seriously.

Some people wanted a better "revolution and fight for the underdog" plot after the MSQ. Well, here you have it in real life. We can fight for better regional prices in the same molds as World of Warcraft, or LoL, or Warframe. We have to keep trying to make our voices heard, not only for the BR and RU players, but so the whole player base can benefit from this.

I don't normally suggest this, but the person (or people) who decided to raise sub prices without telling players needs to be fired. This is going to be a crap show for their PR and is going to make SE look BAD.

Yes, this is their game and they have the right to change sub prices. Most of us understand this. What they did is inexcusable and terrible business practice.

The thing is, SE wants to charge us the 15 USD that everyone pays, monthly. It's understandable, and on their right.
I believe many players would pay for it with no problem whatsoever, however that price is the same that countries with their own decent regional servers, with support for their own language pay. Meanwhile, we have to pay in dollars (not our currency, and very pricey converted from real), a 330+ ping server in foreign language only, so we have to also pay some kind of wtfast to lower our ping so we can properly enjoy the game.
..And changes such as the steam regional currency going down without even a whisper from SE. That, in my opinion, is not fair at all.
It might not seem fair for USD paying customers, but that steam conversion was the only thing that made people that can't afford to pay in dollars be able to. It's expected of SE to research about the country they are offering service to anyways.
It would be nice to have a real announcement about that for sure.

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Originally Posted by DoppelShifter

Contact Kotaku, IGN, Polygon. Voices like Jim Sterling or communities like NeoGAF. Editors like Jason Schreier. Heck, contact FFXIV youtubers like MrHappy or Larry, or McStronghuge.

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I don't think FFXIV youtubers will join the cause, for they risk losing the special treatment they receive(being invited to events, getting early acess to expansions, etc), but they would receive my respect if they did.

It is still their responsibility because first of all they chose to sell the game on steam. Second, they set their prices on steam. Steam is but an intermediate in all this. Square Enix could have done this when HW was released, since back then 1 USD was 4,15 BRL. But they didn\\'t. Now after releasing a huge expansion and also after time for refund has expired, they decided to make it equal to everyone. That\\'s is their responsibility for sure. And they can\\'t do that without notice. They should even have told members that with the upcoming expansions regional pricing difference would be removed from steam. We weren\\'t even allowed to buy HW for a fair price. HW came out in Brazil costing 80 USD at the time for collectors edition. We paid for it. U want equality? Give us the money for HW back because we paid much more than other countries for it. And pls with interest because it\\'s been 2 years.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

I don't normally suggest this, but the person (or people) who decided to raise sub prices without telling players needs to be fired. This is going to be a crap show for their PR and is going to make SE look BAD.

Yes, this is their game and they have the right to change sub prices. Most of us understand this. What they did is inexcusable and terrible business practice.

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the problem is that the one deciding to make changes are usually the people who are in charge of the company or investors so they can't/won't fired themselves since it is what they wanted and own shares of the company. They CAN fired the people in the administration office, but they are just employees ( have not voice) so if you are asking for those people to be fired then I don't think you are any better./shrug

Damn, it's awful not just because the price increase, but because there was NO PREVIOUS NOTICE.

If I knew this beforehand, I'd purchase several months of sub in advance because now it's almost the DOUBLE of what was paid before. I'd get some of the mogstation items that I won't now because I'd rather save for the sub.

Well, the old price of R$ 28,99 was considerable in my finances, but I could manage it. With the price being jacked up to what it is now, however, I really can't justify the purchase. It's a shame really, because I love this game. I didn't, and still don't, have enough time to get my money's worth out of most of the days that I paid for, but I felt the price was reasonable enough to support a game I grew really fond of. But with this unannounced increase, this game just went into borderline unaffordable to me, and to a lot of other Brazilian players. So thank you SE, it was a fun ride, it's a shame I won't be able to renew my sub for a long while because the concept that people in different countries can't afford the same price as another seems to have escaped someone's mind.

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Originally Posted by JumperX

the problem is that the one deciding to make changes are usually the people who are in charge of the company or investors so they can't not fired themselves since it is what they wanted. They CAN fired the people in the administration office, but they are just employees ( have not voice) so if you are asking for those people to be fired then I don't think you are any better./shrug

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Let me tell you as someone who has actually invested in SE Holdings (not majorly but buying up shares here and there with spare money and putting a small chunk of my RRSP investments into it). Right now I am watching my stock value drop for the first time in 8 days and not just 1-2 points its dropped almost a full % in value in the last 24hrs. I dont make "mad money" on the stock but (and I am sorry if I seem insensitive to those affected) I am worried how this is going to affect my bottom line between if refunds get processed and the lost revenue however small from the steam subs. To break even 1/2 steam users would need to change to paying full price and while I cant see their numbers what I can see is the public freaking out saying things and as an investor in this company that scares me.

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Originally Posted by Nezia

I don't think FFXIV youtubers will join the cause,[...] but they would receive my respect if they did.

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Exactly.

And basically from the moment we start always thinking "they'll never join the cause" or "these sites/journalists/youtubers will never talk about this" or "Square Enix will never listen", that means we're already losing.

Is there a minimal chance that they might hear us? Then contact them. The more people try it (*POLITELY*), the better. If it is important to us, and if the regional pricing is something that can benefit a vast part of the player base and not only BR/RU, then it's something worth fighting for.

Keep the flame and soldier on. Multiple other MMORPGs implemented these prices. FFXIV has the precedent of having one of the most dedicated fanbases worldwide, lots of them who stuck with the game through the hellhole that was 1.0. If that could be achieved, then we can achieve some victory here too. For all of us.

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Originally Posted by Yurimi

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It is cool you admit to have a financial investment in the company. Your reactions to things players ask would make sense to me. The other players who act like they own a % of the company just confuse me.

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Originally Posted by Yurimi

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And this might actually get some attention from SE if things keep up. This situation might not be the actual cause of any dent in the stock values right now, but they sure are a reason to keep some people a bit jumpy.

After all, Steam is still the largest PC gaming storefront. And FFXIV's page is basically defaced with an ever-shrinking review score, with multiple negative reviews from veteran players (currently at 53% and still dropping). This might be enough to make some people jumpy, specially considering how SE is handling the situation: by mostly ignoring it and waiting until it goes away.

If this situation drags on and more people join the outcry, specially more sites, journalists and youtubers, SE might actually start feeling like they should do something.

Stormblood is one of the most unpleasant experiences I had as a player and customer. The server move, two to three days stuck at the bottleneck, plus three days unable to get into Omega because some non-NA players couldn't queue for this period of time. And now THIS. No warning and no real reason - unless you truly believe that charging the same to low income countries is "fair".

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Originally Posted by Rofel

unless you truly believe that charging the same to low income countries is "fair".

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Depends on the personality of the person. There's J and P types on Myers-Briggs. J types are very much "Same for all." - for example everyone pays the same regardless of circumstance, and that is how they see fair. P types will look into individual circumstances and assess that way, allowing for adjustments given a person's circumstances. In short:

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The fourth criterion, Judging – Perceiving, reflects how a person implements the information he or she has processed.

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Neither of them are wrong approaches truth be told. I can see both sides, though I would lean more towards a P in this situation, in that low income countries should have their individual needs accounted for (which is pretty strange given I'm an ENTJ).

Yeah you should've told us before launching the expansion, so we wouldn't have spent our money buying it! Dirty work you did...
My husband and I are leaving the game as soon as our 26 days of previous subscription end. Thanks for this.

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Originally Posted by Ayerinn

However, "Recurring Fees" would refer to things like Auto Renew NOT one time subscription purchases. You are buying 30 days of game time (essentially a product with a defined length and expiration)but you are not signing up for a recurring fee, technically, unless you choose auto renew.

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The NA version of the user agreement, it promises 30 days advance notice for changes to recurring fees, and it also defines it:
"A 'Recurring Fee' is a fee that will be charged on a recurring basis until you terminate your subscription."
The subscription fee itself is a recurring fee because it's charged repeatedly. Whether you pay it automatically or manually doesn't change the fact that you have to pay it repeatedly in order to maintain your sub. It's even pointed out in the opening of that paragraph:
"In order to access SQUARE ENIX's servers to play the Game, you must agree to a recurring subscription ("Subscription") with a minimum subscription term of 30 days, and pay a recurring subscription fee ("FFXIV Subscription Fee")."

In the EU version of the user agreement, the part about the 30 day notice doesn't even mention the fact that it's recurring, just mentioning subscription fees:
"FINAL FANTASY XIV Subscription Fee rates will be posted at http://sqex.to/ffxivfees_eu, and any changes to those rates will be posted with 30 days’ advance notice and notice will be provided to the Game community and by email to User’s registered email addresses."

By neither version would automatic versus manual payments of that recurring subscription fee make any difference to SE's promise that it won't change without 30 days advance notice.


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It seems they may be getting around the rule by only listing prices in euros and pounds on the EU site, only in US dollars on the NA site, and only in yen on the JP site. Maybe they're treating it as though it's only those currencies that are (temporarily) guaranteed, and screw anyone else. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Rymm

I'm not even going to get into the argument of whether or not it's "fair" that the two countries should pay the same in USD.

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I am in no way condoning what Squeenix did. I was simply curious about another country. I'm a nosy person and love information. I tried looking it up online but it didn't make a lot of sense to me, Your reply did so thank you. I don't pay fo0r my sub, a friend does because I can't afford the price of the sub each month. So, I do understand how upsetting this is.
One thing that is bugging me is all the comparisons to North America when the USA and Canada have nothing at all to do with any of this. This game is Japanese. The people running it are Japanese. You should be comparing to Japan or to the Yen.

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Originally Posted by DoppelShifter

After all, Steam is still the largest PC gaming storefront. And FFXIV's page is basically defaced with an ever-shrinking review score, with multiple negative reviews from veteran players (currently at 53% and still dropping).

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I think people are being a little ridiculous...Yes, it was bad business practice for SE to raise prices without notice. Yes, it is very poor (and very suspect to be honest) timing being one month after an Expansion launch (aka 30+ days which is a standard return policy for goods - though software tends to be shorter.) However, in the end no matter how horrible the situation was handled with lack of communication before any changes occurred - it is in their right to change prices. It sucks and you have your right to voice your opinion in forums and on Steam, but it is what it is. Writing bad reviews to tank a games "score" just because you are upset it costs too much after a price change, though, is in my mind just as ridiculous as SE changing pricing without notice. If the reasoning for a low score was changing prices without notice, that is a little more reasonable though that is more of a reflection on a corporations pricing policies and NOT the actual end product (not to say those policies have no relevance.) This is basically the equivalent of people protesting in front of a store...99% of the time I find those people are best ignored.

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Originally Posted by Yurimi

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I welcome any type of real shareholder person to this conversation. As you know the shares are bought according to the individual risk. More people like you should speak up and show your concern with the company and shareholders with a bigger share. I am sure many people facing this problem would like to your voice and other minority shareholders voices to join their cause.

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

One thing that is bugging me is all the comparisons to North America when the USA and Canada have nothing at all to do with any of this. This game is Japanese. The people running it are Japanese. You should be comparing to Japan or to the Yen.

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Because they are now charging us the equivalent of $15 USD, not ¥1,666.12 JPY. When SE starts charging us in yen and not dollars, I'm sure people will start making the comparisons.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

The NA version of the user agreement, it promises 30 days advance notice for changes to recurring fees, and it also defines it:
"A 'Recurring Fee' is a fee that will be charged on a recurring basis until you terminate your subscription."
The subscription fee itself is a recurring fee because it's charged repeatedly. Whether you pay it automatically or manually doesn't change the fact that you have to pay it repeatedly in order to maintain your sub. It's even pointed out in the opening of that paragraph:"In order to access SQUARE ENIX's servers to play the Game, you must agree to a recurring subscription ("Subscription") with a minimum subscription term of 30 days, and pay a recurring subscription fee ("FFXIV Subscription Fee")."

In the EU version of the user agreement, the part about the 30 day notice doesn't even mention the fact that it's recurring, just mentioning subscription fees:
"FINAL FANTASY XIV Subscription Fee rates will be posted at http://sqex.to/ffxivfees_eu, and any changes to those rates will be posted with 30 days’ advance notice and notice will be provided to the Game community and by email to User’s registered email addresses."

By neither version would automatic versus manual payments of that recurring subscription fee make any difference to SE's promise that it won't change without 30 days advance notice.


EDIT:
It seems they may be getting around the rule by only listing prices in euros and pounds on the EU site, and only in US dollars on the NA site. Maybe they're treating it as though only those currencies are (temporarily) guaranteed, and screw anyone else. :mad:

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I disagree with your interpretation (for NA ONLY...so the BRL change)- if you are not agreeing to auto renewal you are NOT incurring recurring fees...you have the choice every 30 days to purchase another product aka 30 day subscription. you literally purchased 30 days of subscription time with no recurring fees attached - if you do nothing, it ends, you are not charged anything other than what you paid upfront for those 30 days. UNLESS you agree to auto renewal - in which case you ARE incurring a recurring fee because you agreed to it. I agree that the next line of text makes it a little murky but I would be willing to bet the lawyers could successfully argue the interpretation.

The EU version is not as clean and they screwed themselves on that one - it can not be interpreted the same and they INDEED did not follow their own ToS/U. EU has a case...NA I do not believe does - at least imo.

I also think, after saying all that above, that they could argue that they didn't actually change prices on anything...technically, like you were sort of pointing out, the official pricing is in $/Euro/Pounds - they could easily argue it was an update to currency exchange rates and leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by Rymm

Because they are now charging us the equivalent of $15 USD, not ¥1,666.12 JPY. When SE starts charging us in yen and not dollars, I'm sure people will start making the comparisons.

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You misunderstood what I'm saying. I see many comparisons to north America being better off than south America. While this is true financially (at least for some) it has nothing at all to do with this situation. I also watched the youtube video about this and again all the comparisons are to north America. SE is not an American company, it's Japanese.

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Originally Posted by Ayerinn

I disagree with your interpretation (for NA ONLY...so the BRL change)- if you are not agreeing to auto renewal you are NOT incurring recurring fees...you have the choice every 30 days to purchase another product aka 30 day subscription. you literally purchased 30 days of subscription time with no recurring fees attached - if you do nothing, it ends, you are not charged anything other than what you paid upfront for those 30 days. UNLESS you agree to auto renewal - in which case you ARE incurring a recurring fee because you agreed to it. I agree that the next line of text makes it a little murky but I would be willing to bet the lawyers could successfully argue the interpretation.

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You are correct in the way you interpret this as far as the US goes. I'm not sure if the ToS is different for your country.

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Originally Posted by Ayerinn

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Do you not feel a game that runs on a monthly sub should be reviewed based on administration? Stuff outside the game can greatly affect a persons enjoyment of the game. Based on the angry Data center moves, server stability, players per world, and cash shop. The game receives a lot of positive scores from the dev team cares so much. Why wouldn't the opposite be true? I do admit individual expansion scores are a little bit harder. Admin scores should more go to the main game. But most companies don't attach reviews in that way.