MNK 4.0 Changes . . . I'm not a fan tbh

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

If only they delete the rng on rng; make chakra gain consistent, it would be a huge improvement. And replace the useless tackle mastery with something else.
And remove the speed reduction from RoF.

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Basically redesign the whole damn thing post 3.x lol.

Why would one not prefer sam over monk now?

EDIT:
Also on lower lvl content, monk has fallen. Nerfed potency and no damage buffs. Before I had no problem being top dps in just about any instance. Now, it seems I'm easily out-dps'd by many of the jobs that got utility to boot. ... Or maybe I just had a bad couple of runs. Or I suck and never noticed...

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It may be you. I've had no problems being high up there in the fights, and numerous times I've actually stolen aggro due to Riddle of Fire. It's terrifying when all of a sudden that boss switches to you right when the tank buster is incoming.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

It may be you. I've had no problems being high up there in the fights, and numerous times I've actually stolen aggro due to Riddle of Fire. It's terrifying when all of a sudden that boss switches to you right when the tank buster is incoming.

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RoF is a new skill, I'm talking old content.

A month later, mnk is fairly well-positioned in raid meta (especially for speedkill comps)...but still feels awful to play.

C'est tragique.

Yep, considering monk has been untouched since 4.0 launch, same issues that have persisted since the start still exist. Clunky RoF, plethora of useless or highly situational abilities (Tornado Kick, Tackle Mastery, One Ilm Punch, etc.), personal damage heavily dependent on RNG and party composition, and with the removal of Fracture and Touch of Death (and even the occasional Haymaker after dodging a gaze), the rotation has become dull and rote. Nobody really has an issue with damage output (when in a party composition that permits it), but the job is a pale shadow of how fun it was in HW.

I really like MNK right now (exception being that Brotherhood should work both on ourselves and boost all forms of damage) but I feel right now Fists of Wind and Fists of Earth should be removed and Fists of Fire should be a trait. It would get rid of having to use it everytime you change to the job or when you get level synced. It's just weird that NIN gets the auto movement speed boost and a damage boost trait that used to be a stance, but MNK still has to do these manually and can't get both.

Riddle of Earth could just be a 50% damage reduction so it still feels like if you had Fists of Earth up alongside its bonuses from when Earth's Reply Activates.

Fist of Wind really has no use though and with the Fists gone we could just get rid of Tackle Mastery and replace it with something else... maybe like an AOE chakra attack?

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170809/tynstcth.jpg

I've written this before but I'll still write it again because this really is about playability of monk rather than DPS numbers. I'm comfortable

One Ilm Punch - should apply a debuff on a target that removes positional requirements for 10 seconds. I don't feel like doing the potency math, but using it should be an optimization that becomes worth it if you are going to miss positionals for ~3 GCDs.

1) Remove Riddle of Fire! Seriously, just drop this buff because it's clunky. I do not enjoy executing Monk opener with this skill (even if it is the highest single target burst damage) or how this skill throws off my GCD rhythm.
2) Remove Brotherhood. PAgain, this is not fun because I press a button then wait for a resource to potentially come flowing in...or not? If it does, I press a button to weave it and get extra damage.

Now, whatever the DPS gains are from Brotherhood and Riddle of Fire, they should be replaced with something like the following:

-Introduce GL4 as a temporary buff, potentially with skill mechanics that extend it with diminishing returns (meaning it cannot be kept up forever). I'm open to GL4 not being the same stacking mechanic as GL3 as well
-Enable GL4 to unlock new skills in the core rotation. One single target DoT (strong), and one AoE skill perhaps. Maybe a single target direct attack.
-Maybe introduce a skill that costs a single Greased Lightning stack. This would ideally be used when you're about to lose GL4 anyways so you'd want to force the stack loss with a bonus anyway.
-Give Monks other ways to spend chakra as a resource. Ideally, give us ways to spend it when there are < 5 available. Maybe synergy between chakra and fists can grant bonuses that are actually worth using in fights over the bad tackle mastery's that exist today.

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Originally Posted by OmegaStrongtan

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170809/tynstcth.jpg

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This is why I still like my panda monk in WoW more, you get the middle part there along with more over the top fighting game style moves and high mobility.

Leveling a Samurai now but will come back finish my monk later and probably won't main the class again until they overhaul the class/rotation more.

Well, got MNK to 70... and have to admit...
It was a pain...

The job felt like I had everything as soon as I hit 62, and from then and on I didn't get anything new really...

Wind Tackle came in handy when I felt like battling more than one enemy at a time in the overworld... Riddle of Earth came in handy when I for some reason had to tank the spheres in Susano normal sword phase or in the overworld again when battling more than one enemy at a time. Riddle of Fire? Its just... lets just say I feel like using it to burn all oGCDs then swap to Riddle of Earth > Fist of Fire cuz the speed loss is just terrible :/

I like this job for its speed... so losing GL3 and having to build up from 0 is always a pain, and losing its signature speed for the sake of power (in a game that already punishes skill speed plenty enough) is kind of overwhelming...

I wanna be able to reach GCDs of 1.5 seconds not be thrown to 3 >:|
a 10k strike once every 3 seconds doesn't feel as good as two 5k strikes in 1.5 >_>;;

Now Im lvling BLM and god, now THATs fire power :v

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Well, got MNK to 70... and have to admit...
It was a pain...

The job felt like I had everything as soon as I hit 62, and from then and on I didn't get anything new really...

Wind Tackle came in handy when I felt like battling more than one enemy at a time in the overworld... Riddle of Earth came in handy when I for some reason had to tank the spheres in Susano normal sword phase or in the overworld again when battling more than one enemy at a time. Riddle of Fire? Its just... lets just say I feel like using it to burn all oGCDs then swap to Riddle of Earth > Fist of Fire cuz the speed loss is just terrible :/


I like this job for its speed... so losing GL3 and having to build up from 0 is always a pain, and losing its signature speed for the sake of power (in a game that already punishes skill speed plenty enough) is kind of overwhelming...

I wanna be able to reach GCDs of 1.5 seconds not be thrown to 3 >:|
a 10k strike once every 3 seconds doesn't feel as good as two 5k strikes in 1.5 >_>;;

Now Im lvling BLM and god, now THATs fire power :v

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Frankly this is a pretty big issue that doesn't get talked about much, Monk's 60-70 leveling experience is just plain crappy. Deep Meditation is pretty unobtrusive since it only really nets you 5 chakras every 50-70 seconds or so, Riddle of Earth only sees use in incredibly niche situations where it sometimes won't even work correctly unless the boss jumps when you have a full GL3 or requires you to take a shame Vulnerability stack, Tackle Mastery is a complete waste of a trait that doesn't impact the job in any way, and Riddle of Fire is a replacement for a skill we lost in the action rework (Blood For Blood) except it feels worse to use, so it doesn't feel like we actually get anything new until level 70. Then Brotherhood doesn't do anything solo, and it's a total whiff every time you use it in 4-man's since it's designed around having 2-tanks, a second melee, and a physical ranged all feeding you chakras.

Brotherhood is actually good in 4 mans if the tank and other melee can crank out the damage. I've had moments where I was firing of 3 FCs in the span of thirty seconds. It's rare, but I've had it happen.

Riddle of Fire, they need to remove the weaponskill handicap. Or lower it a little, I'm having to meld Skillspeed to make up for the speed loss.

Well, got a chance to try out Brotherhood yesterday as I finally felt like doing Expert Roulettes as a MNK.
MNK on dungeon doesn't feel too bad... (Riddle of Fire does tho)

So, I tried out Brotherhood and god I was getting so many Chakras so fast it felt amazing~ (for MNK). Except, Forbidden Chakra is single target and has a 5 seconds CD so couldn't use it constantly which felt like I was wasting Chakras... yep, there goes down the drain the little fun moment I had at lvl 70 as a MNK :l

Use RoF and Brotherhood in an 8-man and you'll be frustrated that Forbidden Chakra has a cooldown. If you open properly with RoF/Brotherhood and weave in all of your oGCDs, then you'll sync up as many as possible with future RoFs and maximize damage. You'll be top DPS except where someone outgears you a bit.

I'm guessing everyone is happy with monk now.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

I'm guessing everyone is happy with monk now.

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Not even slightly, our DPS is fine but pretty much every aspect about Stormblood Monk is a letdown on some level.

Just because numbers are there, doesn't mean we are happy with it. I have started playing this game as a MNK in ARR, and have never felt this disappointed with a class. It feels bad, oversimplified and irrelevant.

Riddle of Fire - HAD to 'get used' to it. Hate the skill speed reduction. When I started playing back when ARR came out, I started BLM and it felt sluggish, so much so it made me fall asleep at the time. I knew nothing of it or the class switching... and then I remember seeing pugilist and shrugging and going for it. The fluidity of the gameplay of this melee felt better... and then once GL was in place, I fell in love with it. The game is clunky enough with most classes getting that GCD stop period - but MNK to me always felt fluid and GOOD. Riddle of Fire gives me damage, true! That is not in question... but the SkS reduction is a bitter price to pay for a 30% dmg increase - warranted or not I have no idea. It feels like a bad skill with good results. And it exists as a replacement of Blood for Blood that was lost as a cross class - should we really be happy about this? Have you seen the MNK leveling experience now? If anything, a skill like this should have been added DURING leveling, and then IMPROVED from 60-70 through a passive increment (to what it is now? *shrug*)...

Riddle of Earth - Proven to be conflicting with Tornado Kick. The fact it only procs extra damage reduction AFTER taking damage seems to just... be irrelevant. When it's time we have to use it to keep our GL stacks up, it's usually just a single touch until the boss can be attacked, or until we should touch the boss again. There is no perpetuation of the 20% total reduction, because the moment we move on the boss, we press Fists of Fire, and that kills Riddle of Earth. The time refresh of GL itself has its limitations too - mind you, it works on a lot of occasions, but it also doesn't work on some others. For an already situational skill, its usage becomes even more limited from each different encounter's actual flow. Personally, if it was even a CHOICE, I'd prefer to deal with Tornado Kick.

Tackle Master - I got nothing. Someone in another thread is suggesting that this Mastery (which would have to be renamed for that purpose) actually change the rotation's abilities; which while their suggestions are excessive and clearly OP, the essence of the idea warrants merit. But as it currently stands, it might as well not be there. Give the 30 potency to the actual tackle in Fire Stance and delete this.

Meditation - the only truly improved thing from MNK imo. I know some people aren't a fan of RNG, and fair enough... As for me, I enjoy the mechanic; and wish they had built on it for Stormblood instead of giving us all these random additions - whether through interaction of abilities, or the very stacks themselves. I just feel it's a good step, but SE did not capitalise on it at all.

Brotherhood - Still disappointed with this skill. For a lvl 70 that is supposed to give us raid 'utility', it falls short - too short. 5% physical damage to everyone but ourselves is a raid buff, true... but it's a joke. Now, I like the chakra building mechanic. It's randomness is annoying, I agree, and perhaps they should have it add a baseline amount of chakras as its duration goes, to make sure we at the very least are getting something. Other times when we get an abundance of procs, it would be really nice to not have the cooldown on Forbiden Chakra so we can capitalise on this. But to me, what truly annoys is the 5% physical damage boost... is this what passes for a raid buff...? not 10%? not 'all damage' instead of limiting it to comp...? It just feels off...

DoTs - I get it, everyone lost their dots... couldn't monk have some DoT intensive melee build up to make it unique? As it stands, only the positional requirements and GL mechanic are making us unique. And the current 'clipping' or letting 'fall off' of Demolish and Dragon Kick debuff, and fall off of Twin Fangs buff just makes everything feel out of pace and/or wasted. Was really clicking a DoT button widening the gap of skill between monks...? If so, I fear for the players that truly feel benefited by this... they may need help. Lots of it...

Nothing NEW - Peeves me greatly. Appart from the meditation passive, I feel we got nothing that felt new or good. I remember leveling Heavensward and getting rly excited with Elixir Field and Chakras and even Tornado Kick! They felt good. It gave some more flavour. It filled in the gaps... which leads me to the question - do we have gaps to fill? To me, the answer to this is irrelevant... this SHOULD NOT be an excuse to not ADD to the class. Classes need to develop and evolve - and I've seen this excuse flung about. Just because things are functionally correct and there may be not much MNK would 'need' on a fundamentally mechanic level; it should NEVER be used as an excuse not to build up the class. Sure, we can click chakras when we aren't hitting a boss. We got some ways to either refresh or dump our GL stacks. These things were given in Heavensward to combat the clear gaps we had, and I am thankful for it. But for Stormblood, it feels like nothing of interest was done. There was nothing added to the class.

In my opinion, the silence on this thread represents two things. 1st - the loss of interest from the MNK community on the class. No longer do we thrash and protest about the outrage that this expansion was for us... our passion has been snuffed out and our expectations crushed by mediocre/insufficient class development. 2nd - No matter how much we proclaim our distaste for the current state of things, it is unlikely our plight is even being heard, or acknowledged. Does it represent people happy with it? From my experience and those around me, it does not. But that depends on each person and I would not have my voice be that of other people.

This thread's current silence is a loss of HOPE.

I wouldn't say a loss of hope; More like a loss of suggestions on how to improve MNK.
I mean, we have suggestions on Fist Stances, Tackle Mastery, Riddle changes, etc. that I can't even think of anything new that hasn't already been suggested in this topic or another.

As far as our DPS goes, we're fine but the class just feels....wrong. Our Blood for Blood replacement slows down the class to base level, Riddle of Earth and Tornado Kick are highly situational abilities that are competing with each other for the same spot, One Ilm Punch and Arm of the Destroyer are underwhelming, Stances not called Fist of Fire are useless in 99% of content. We lost our DPS for a bunch of hotbar clutter and it just hinders the flow of the class to such an extent that it makes it less enjoyable overall.

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Originally Posted by Fhyrr

This thread's current silence is a loss of HOPE.

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i wish i could upvote more this

i kinda only play monk only on 8 man content, and only because said content is fun(since the current playstile of monk for me is very boring), and the fact what for the devs "monk is fine" is clear what they won't gonna change it ever, even when the monk comunity was complaining about it a lot

Sooooo what skill speed should I be aiming for at ilvl 335-340? I'm missing my last hit in my opener 10% of the time at 820...

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Originally Posted by Wannman

Sooooo what skill speed should I be aiming for at ilvl 335-340? I'm missing my last hit in my opener 10% of the time at 820...

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around 1200-1300, you have a truly truly truly low amount of skill speed

In order to get 1200-1300 are people melding or actually using skillspeed gear? I was under the impression that I should be maxing crit/dh/det (which are ~1620/1760/1100 currently)

I have almost 1100 on mine and I do just fine, I don't use any "new" opener I just adjusted my old one for the new skills though so it's probably not the best but w/e I don't care too much.

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Originally Posted by Wannman

In order to get 1200-1300 are people melding or actually using skillspeed gear? I was under the impression that I should be maxing crit/dh/det (which are ~1620/1760/1100 currently)

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you don't really need to meld much to reach that numbers, me current skill speed is of 1293, and i haven't melded anything to reach that number, just don't avoid skill speed

the whole point to reach that number is to get a gcd of 2 s when you are under gl3, so you don't drop demolish before refreshing it at every 3 combos

anyway, me gear(currently) is this:

susano knukles(skill speed +184 direct hit + 263)
lost alagan headgear(critical hit +107 skill speed +153)
lost alagan coat(determination +249 direct hit +174)
ala mhigan fingerless gloves(critical hit +103 direct hit +148)
gentai obi of strikking(skill speed +79 direct hit +113)
lost alagan breeches(determination +249 skill speed +174)
lost alagan thigtboots(critical hit +153 determination+107)
genta earrings(critical hit +79 skill speed +113)
lakshmi's necklace(critical hit +79 skill speed +113)
genta brazalet(skill speed +113 direct hit +79)
lakshmi's ring(critical hit +79 direct hit +113)
genta ring(critical hit +113 determination +79)

at gl3 i get a gcd speed of 2.01 s whit that much skill speed

in me opinion, is a priority to reach around that numbers on skill speed before you prioritise the other sub-stats since monk is all about speed, and since rof make us hit slower....