Hope so assize is an amazing ability imo.
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Hope so assize is an amazing ability imo.
I won't disagree with WHMs extra healing being a safety net for fights. It definitely is. But see, that limits WHMs main benefit solely to content that you're not only at the min ilv for, but that you're still progressing in. After you have better gear and a decent hang of the fight, WHMs usefulness as a safety net is over. So at best WHM would have a month after new content release, then it's back to the bench for 3-4 months or so, which is ridiculous.
As for Assize. Well, I sure do hope it's power is emphasized rather than nerfed. But looking at WHMs AOE track record...
Have faith imo. Right or wrong, WHM is one of the most iconic FF jobs out there, it's going to get some cool toys <3
if its just another overshield it doesnt have to be stronger than adlo; as long as it doesnt override each other; from what we saw on the job action it appeared just good ol' cure gave you a lily (assuming there isn't a built in cd system); you can replenish your 3 liles asap! And Given it appeared to be a oGCD consumption it would be too OP if it displaced adlo which is still a GCD cast. Adlo is only effective over instant heals when there is a mech that ignores shields (like photon on A11s) or if the target is already max HP; otherwise adlo << cure 2, benefic II. So yea with all that being considered it would be fine of the whm barrier isn't stronger than adlo.
If they made it stronger (the whm barrier over that of aldo) we'd have something similar to what we have now with indom (oGCD 400 aoe potency) stronger than medica/helio (GCD......300 aoe potency with cast time).
NOtE
yesss, if adlo crits it becomes GG OP!!! BUT do a parse on healer crit rate....it's nothing reliable.
It's not unthinkable to have barriers stacking imo. Turn 5 progression pretty much required very precise timing with both stoneskin and adlo for much of the encounter all whilst other mechanics were happening. It'd be interesting to see them do something like this again as it did a great job of giving healers something to focus on outside of mindlessly mashing nukes.
The trick of course is handling it in a way that it doesn't trivialise other content such as primals, I'm not really sure how SE could approach that =(
Well, I had spent the last few hours watching, rewatching and writing down my observations of the healer portions of the job actions trailer. Since this thread is about WHM and I feel the other two healer previews are pretty obvious on whats going on (for the most part), I'm just gonna post my WHM thoughts/observations, and leave out the other two.
White Mage
Now here is where I find it kinda tricky, which I'm sure is intended. Although, while rewatching the WHM preview, I noticed something really interesting. At least in my opinion. I sort of did a double-take. I don't recognize many of the skills, so will just refer to most of them as "Unknown Skills" (duh).
- Unknown Skill #1: If I remember correctly, the lilies on the UI show up when you cast a heal. Only judging by the animation and the WHM UI, this seems to be a buff that they used on themselves that will affect the next skill.
- Unknown Skill #2: This one shows to be a heal that they used on the party member, based on how a second lily glows upon its use. Also seems to activate the previous used buff, judging by the effect the WHM gets after its use.
- Aero and Stone: This one is not very surprising. More regular damage spells, yay. Obviously does not affect the UI.
- Unknown Skill #3: While very shiny, it does not seem to be a heal, as it does not cause a lily to appear on the new UI. I would assume it is a buff of some sort, but I can not really tell what it does, other than apply to the WHM and its party member.
- Unknown Skill #4: Has a watery appearance/sound, and does not seem to be a heal. Again, it does not give a lily upon use, so my assumption is that it is a buff.
- Unknown Skill #2 (again): Only this time does not seem to be affected by any of the buffs? Activates third lily.
- Cure 3: Here is where I find it interesting. Not looking closely, it looks like just a normal Cure 3. Just going to assume it works the same as our current Cure 3 does. UI is full, so a forth lily does not appear.
- Unknown Skill #5: Looks to be a shield of some sort, used by consuming the three lilies from the UI. Going to assume it is an aoe shield based from what I have seen from the benchmark and my own theory.
- Rescue: Don't think I need to go over this. Others have translated its description.
Here, I have a theory... Cure 3 is an aoe heal (duh), and when you look closely at the striking dummy, you can see it being affected by the use of Cure 3. The very same thing happens when the WHM uses the "skill number 5", and it only happens during these two.
What I'm thinking is that due to one of the buffs the WHM uses, their aoe healing/shielding abilities affects the enemy in some way. Granted, we do not see any aoes pre-damage abilities (that I could see at least), so for all we know it could just be a passive... But I'm just going to assume one the two abilities (3 & 4) have something to do with it. I do not know what it could be doing to the dummy, but it seems pretty promising that WHMs could be getting some form of utility after all.
Okay, Kairi... You went through all that... why?
Well... with Scholar and Astro, we see a lot more animations we are familiar with or are easy to read visually (at least in my opinion). As a result, I feel we can get more of an idea what is in store for them, even without knowing additional effects. White Mage on the other hand, is more difficult to read. While, yes, most of the shown skills look like ordinary healing spells, there could be a lot more to them than we can even see. There could be hidden effects in their spells. I truly feel White Mages will be getting some form of utility that is tied to their healing spells. While we don't quite know what it is or how much utility it'll get, we do see something worth noting in the job trailer. Who knows, I could also be very very wrong. Wouldn't be the first time LOL.
Keep in mind, though, we do not see every new skill, and that they mixed some new role actions into the previews. And while WHM is losing some of its actions to the role system, I don't think the devs would take them away if they weren't planning to give something back in return. At the same time, they are also trying to avoid overwhelming people with too many actions. While you can clearly see what ones were put into the role actions, what we don't see are the ones from all jobs that were taken away all together or fused together. I'm positive WHM isn't the only one that's losing actions.
But Kairi, why would they hide WHM utility like that?
Well, if I am right in regards to tying White Mage utility into their healing spells, it wouldn't be as easy to show off in something like the job trailer than it is with Astro and Scholar. We already know what their utility is, and because of that, we know what to look for and can draw better conclusions. White Mage hasn't had any true form of utility (at least not much of it), so its easy for us to miss. Having special effects tied to their healing would make it even more difficult to see.
Finally, even if the devs were intentionally hiding WHM utility, why would that surprise you? They are the biggest trolls. They love to give very little details to make their player base squirm and grow rampant with theories/speculations. I mean with how sensitive this issue is with a lot of people, I'm not surprised. I bet the devs are having a lot of fun reading the salt in the forums with things like this. I know I do lol.
Oh, you replied here too...Erm, lol well I'll post it in this thread since it's more lively so...Ignore my post in the other thread lol
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In reply to LadyKairi:
Unknown skills 5: That actually isn't the same ability that was shown in the benchmark. The benchmark trailer looked more like a heal, different animation (character floated in place) no shield animation either.
Cure 3: That's actually just the Aero DoTS falling off the target.
As far as I've seen, I haven't seen any heal effect the the enemy target at all.
As far as the self buffs, what you think is the WHM getting buffs after every heal looks just like the Freecure/Overcure procs and such. I'll have to double check what it looks like in game, but that's what it looks like.
Not trying to shoot down every one of your observations, but just what I've noticed from it.
Don't worry about shooting my observations down, because I pretty much expect it at this point lol. Yeah I figured I was reaching quite a bit lol, yet my other points still stand. The new WHM skills have similar looks and sounds to them, so eh. Nobody's perfect lol.
Still, I'm sure you whms will get something nice out of this expansion. I'm sure they're just trolling with their lack of healer info. If not and they mess up again, then just gotta raise some more hell :3c
Edit-- finally home
Skill 1 looks a lot like divine seal with synastry's sound effect. Willing to bet it's the cross class Affection skill. Yay! Cross class! >.<;
Skill 3: Group Tetra! Yay more heals! Because that's what white mage totally needs is more heals amirite? Instant cast-- that's most likely why there's no lily generation. You get lilies for casted heals, not for instants.
Skill 4- This one looks as washed up as the white mage using it. Pun intended. I am not sorry. At least Balmung white mages can now wash themselves when they are dirty #Yay4Balmung
Skill 5- Is that? Yes, yes, I think it is.... yet ANOTHER HEAL. Group Tetra just wasn't enough. Note: Casted heal + lily
Barrier Skill (is this like 6 or something now?) -- Yes! It's Adloquium or perhaps group casted that makes it... Succor! Don't we all feel like suckers now getting a mechanic that allows us to cast Scholar spells that they can spam when we need to heal 3 times to gain access to them! I am so impressed!
*** PSA ***
This post is meant to be sarcastically aggressive and punny as a means of releiving a bit of stress and having a bit of fun. It's sarcasm.
*** *** ***
On that note, what self respecting game company or any company for that matter would purposefully troll their customers. You want people to be excited to entice them to buy. Not make them angry
Aww hell I wrote all that on my phone and can't edit it in? lame... ah well angsty sarcastic post will have to wait
Your point is the same counter point to any unique ability each of the healers can bring. The only reason cure Iii is the odd man out is bc ast offer more party dps while maintaining eHps paired with sch.
A11s photon whirlwind combo makes great use cure3 or any other combo bc SE wants content that can be cleared by many compositions. You can shield and mitigate and provide the raid less instant Hp. Or you can burst heal thru the mech.
If you precast into the photon whirlwind combo it allows TWO gcds before the 18k unmitigated whirlwind hits. Remember photon brings all affected players down to critical health (<1%).
By design this mech allows for multiple ways to deal with it, which includes a cure3 method. And if you had no smn with the ast co healer or just a sch (king healer), you would certainly need cure 3.
Note: I've not verified this myself get, but some guy said debuffs are multiplied not added....so just to keep it simple we'll add it anyways and mention the actual mitigmitigation is potentially less.
-Whirlwind dmg 18k unmitigated
Delirium 10% dmg down
Storm's path 10% dmg down
Sacred soil 10% dmg down
Red mind 5% dmg down
Virus 15% dmg down
E4e* 10% dmg down
CU 10% dmg down (plus 1 tick of 150 potency regen in the photon whirlwind window)
Fey conv 20% magic def= avg out to 8-10% dmg down ppl say*****
Edit -ilv 270 was a baaaaad example. Should have calculated at ilv255.
At ilv 270 no echo 300 potency =4k dmg/heals. So image with a sch/ast combo.You'd need a combo of the mitigation listed above to reduce the inc whirl down to600 potency (2 gcds) from ast and 850 potency (3 gcds to include the succor pre photon shield and indom).
(Note yes this is one example. There are several ways sch can address this mech sequence. With emergency with dissipation. With adlo delpoy...etc, but the point is sch could not address it the same way each time.)
So combined potency available nominally between sch and ast for this mech is 1450 potency which at ilv270 no echo = 19k hp???
However with a whm only using divine seal and assize (60 sec and 90 sec cds respectively) you could solo heal each photon whirlwind combo mech with no help, no mitigation, no shilelds, consistently the same way each sequence. 1730 potency (2 gcds of cure3 with divine + assize) = 23k HP.
Someone post what an ilv 255, 300 potency heal does. And we can redo the math. But i think it's somewhere around 2k. Which would make ast/sch combined 1450 potency = 9.6k raid heals (muuucchh in need of additional mitigation) and whm solo of 1730 potency= 11.6k (in need of much mitigation or a co healer to cover 6.4k heals/shields in two gcds).
I was wondering, you take WHM cure III with divine seal, but you take AST and SCH without synastry/fairy heal boost?
why?
i may have missed something for the 1450 potency, here is what i can count:
Sch (no regen from fairy) =>fairy heal boost, succor (180 heal 180 shield), ET succor (360 heal), indom 400 for 940 heal+180 shield (and potencialy 20% of its cohealer too, with the fairy boost)
AST (no regen) => synastry + helios twice for 720. (possibility of lightspeed for 3 heal in the same gcd of 2, making it goes to 1080)
WHM (no regen still) => divine seal + cure IIIx2 (715*2) + assize (300) = 1730
which makes AST + SCH do (shield+heal) 1120 (sch) + 1296ww (AST 1080+20% from sch) for 2416 raid aoe, which is far above the 1450.
You can argue that lightspeed has a high cooldown (150s), so you can remove it if you want, making it 864 for AST (720+20% sch), for a total of 1984.
They went full ultra retard.Quote:
Chance to gain a Lily.
Chance.. Sigh...
Ok, now we can complain I think :/
Besides Thin Air which is amazing, and what lilies do... Well...
At least they will be powerful healers that's for sure but... This is not what I expected
Rouse only buffs heals directly from the fairy. And fairy doesn't execute succor (if however u meant Fey illum healing 20% buff its a 2min cd therefore would not be up for each sequence; which is why i said sch could deal with this mech in several different ways but not the same way twice). so Succor is 150 heal 150 shield. If you succor the party before the photon erases everyone's HP down to 1%, you effectively have 150 potency heal on remaining on the party in the form of shields. If you're precasting into the photon mech you can fit 2 gcds in before whirlwind hits.If sch DOES NOT use emergency tactic to make their aoe all instant heals their successive succor will only heal for 150 potency since the initial pre photon succor shields is still in effect! so that 150 pre shield + 150 instant heal for succor + another 150 instant heal from succor + 400 indom. 150+150+150+400 = 850 potency.
Edit- Emergency tactic is a 30 sec recast... i was thinking 2min...... so that Sch 1150 potency.
You Could Add rouse to Whispering Dawn pre photon such that you get 2 ticks (6 sec) by the time whirlwind hits that would give you a total 280 potency rouse regen raid aoe. That would push sch to 1430 consistently timed potency.
Ast doesn't change much at all. You had synastry and that makes your 300 potency into 360 potency; light speed doesn't speed up your recast (however TECHNICALLY IF PERFECTLY TIMED even though it doesnt shorten your recast you might be able to fit an additional gcd inside that photon whirlwind window....but that's not reliable nor practical..and the recast on Light speed is too long). So ast still 720 potency.
So Ast + Sch = 720+ 1430 = 2150 potency.
But since we wanna add sch pre photon regens!! then we gonna add whm pre photon regens too!!!
so asylum 90 sec recast; 100 potency; so thats 200 potency in the 6 sec window. pre photon medic II with divine 65 potency, so 130 potency in the 6 sec window + whm already 1750 potency 2 divine+cure 3's + assize; for a grand total of 2080.
Compare how one healer (WHM) is comparable to consistent cd rotation AST + SCH aoe healing!!
2080 and 2150 are about the same....
NOte: there is NOT 6 sec inbetween Photon execution and Whirlwind execution; I just simplified to fit an additonal regen in the mix but the more technical comparision would be only 1 regen tick . So AST + SCH= 2010; and WHM = 1915 which introduces a bigger gap but still not huge!
NOTE 2
Note this is an example of content design that neglects WHM's superior healing abilities, b/c the Photon+Whirlwind sequence is so infrequent (AOE in general), and The number of utilities SCH/AST has are innumerable. SCH/AST has at no time need to be able to match WHM's instant/regen healing abilities. SCH/AST can use a combination of utilities to facilitate the necessary eHPS EVEN if its a different combo of abilities each go around. They will always have SOMETHING they can combine together to get the job done.
Moving forward if SE continues with the same philosophy behind the healers and similar content; one way of balance would be to render WHM pure healing effectively = to SCH utility. This would make SCH and WHM interchangeable since everybody wants that increase in dps late in patch; but this would also make SCH/WHM even more preferable during early progression over AST/WHM and AST/SCH (which are the two setups that would prevail later in the patch cycles).
Looks like whm got some a bit
https://gamerescape.com/2017/05/30/f...lysis-healers/
Again, if you take into consideration regens (which i didnt), you have to take AST's regens too, which are (with CU+asp helios > asile+medica II), higher in AoE than WHM. (unless you regen individualy every target).
But since i just looked into the announced spell and saw how bad they were for WHM compared to the others (or unless the WHM is going into a solo heal meta), i'm just gonna go cry in a corner.
yea whm is pretty much screwed from lookin at this stuff
In theory, the extra healing through Plenary Indulgence & Confession, and the shorter CDs could probably mean WHM can just go DPS the majority of the encounter. But that's about it.
We still don't know if any other abilities have had changes to them. But the barrier CD can be shorten from 60secs if you have more lillies but doesn't increase the potency past 15% of max hp.
My main issue is everything "has a chance to do something"
Looks like WHM has gone for a good long jaunt down the HPS throughput rabbit hole, if it didn't have a clearly obvious throughput advantage before, I suspect it does now. Divine seal going up to 90 seconds reigns it back in a bit though, oh and colour me a little sad that fluid aura has lost it's damage =(
The AST Lord and Lady mechanic seems fantastic, finally no more need to constantly throw away cards. Earthly star also looks like a fun mechanic to use. The gotcha here is any unnannounced changes to the base cards.
SCH seems to be getting the raw deal though. 20% crit for 15 seconds on a target is super tasty, Broil II is a big step up in potency but the bane change coupled with losing Blizz II is going to take the axe to their personal DPS in dungeons or add phases. Not seeing the fairy stuff kind of leaves it a bit vague though, if they have kept fey illumination as well, that'll be a big bonus for them.
what just came out????!!! LINKK THAT SHITTT
You're right you can link AST aspect Helio regen but you can't include CU regen b/c you'd not gonna get 3 sec of time without applying the ability over one of your GCDs (there is only 4-5 sec between photon and whirlwind, no way possible to do 2 gcds and then do CU and get a regen tick 3 sec later from activation. )
So if you add ast helio for 1 tick you have while under synastry that's 44 regen potency which makes the gap even bigger.... and now its starting to show....
2054 SCH/AST vs 1915 WHM ; a difference of 139 potency- 139 is significant......
I think another problem with the confession stacks is that none of the aoes give them. Whm would have to continuously cast cure 1 and cure 2on other party members to give them the full effect. Granted indulgence is the largest aoe but it doesn't say anything if the target doesn't have any stacks of confession so it's unlikely if they get any healing.
Well, now that we know the changes, and while not looking great, it's better to wait and see them in action.
Did anyone notice weapon skills and autoattacks in Presence of Mind? Have those always been mentioned? Are we supposed to melee now? lol
This is a lot.....
New Shroud is an MP upgrade for us WHMs by 2 more ticks!
E4E didnt change at all..well technically it changed for WHM and AST; So for SCH it didnt change at all......
THEY F**&k ussss with the new Divine... we lost 10% and added 30 sec to the recast loool
still editing
Secret of the lilly is cool. but the tooltip is still unclear on its actual implementation... Does the execution buffs work exactly like Spear from AST works?? Where by the bonus isn't applied on the current recast timers but the subsequent recast timers??? Or does the execution of the lilies retroactively reduce the recast timers of all the affect abilities( the latter would be MUUUUCH MORE OP AND RELEVANT ). And 20% chance...... is very low for a skill we won't be spamming unless we're some scrub causal peppering tanks and party members with wasted gcds.....UNLESS they make it a more healing gcd mech demanding content ( I would like that!!!).
I think it's pretty safe to say SE hates whm.
You build the Lilies with Cure and Cure 2. When you use a skill the lilies effect it lowers the recast timer of the ability used depending on the amount of lilies you have built up and consumes the lilies. Pretty straight forward. A lot of the new WHM mechanics require WHM to be casting heal a lot to benefit from them.
"The recast reduction is 4% for one lily, 10% for two and 20% for three. So, for example, building up three lilies and using Tetragrammaton would reduce the cooldown (recast timer) of it by 20%, from 60 seconds to 48. This would basically add one extra Tetragrammaton per 5 minutes."
Would assume it's based on the Lillies as you use the ability. Above scenario would mean max Lillies every time Tetra comes off CD, so you wouldn't be able to reduce the CD from 48 seconds.
Here's an example of how they work, Let's say you have 3 lilies. WHen you use assize, instead of 90 sec cd, it becomes 72 seconds. There is also the trait at lvl 68 where if you store a crit cure 1 or cure 2, 20 percent of the time the cooldowns of assize and asylum are reduced by a flat 5 seconds. However when you use the skill, it eats up all lilies immediately, so it can't be used in rapid succession. Also there is the fact you need to use cure 1 and cure 2 to get a lily and those are proc-based too.
You literally need to be spamming cure and cure 2 to benefit from a lot of the new skills and mechanics. The lvl 70 heal is dependent on stacks of confession that only cure or cure 2 can put on allies.
https://youtu.be/mW7R7QM5X18?t=9m51s
check this out, Diurnal now gives 15% additional healing potency.
The kicker is they haven't even bloody adjust the MP cost of their healing spells, at lv 70 Benefic cost 480 MP, Cure and Physick cost 600 MP, and Benefic now heals 15% more due to the sect.
SE what the heck happened to you?