parse for ps4 users !

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

how on earth does anyone know who initiated the kick?

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It may have been vocalized. Let me go back and look at the thread.

Sorry, my bad it falls under the "at times calling for kick" part of this:

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Originally Posted by Reddit Guy

I ran a parser for a total of 100 instances (dungeons and pug raids combined) in FFXIV over the past few months:

16 cases of low-output DPS harassing / calling out the tanks, healers, other DPS randomly because they feel the instance is done "too slow".

13 cases of low-output DPS harassing / calling out the tanks, healers, other DPS, pointing fingers and blame immediately after a wipe, at times asking for vote kicking.

7 cases of low-output DPS claiming arbitrary numbers (without being asked) of damage they do, to support their argument which in most cases had nothing to do with the damage done in the encounter.

11 cases of pretty much AFK in Alexander Normal, by just refreshing one dot on the boss and moving out of fire. (Intentional lack of contribution, while wearing savage gear, I assume to finish eating / watching TV / etc while 7 people farm you items)

0 cases of high-output / top dps showing any signs of arrogance or posting numbers, or generally anything other than the occasional "please pull more, we have good dps, we can clear fast"

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I have to wonder what servers/group these people are on. I suppose now being on Tonberry I can't read the JP comments, but when I was on an english server I saw very little of people spatting over DPS at all. these figures literally show 40% of not only bad dps (it's common, that doesn't concern me) but of bad dps as well as them being the instigators of complaints/problems. from my experience of 2 years+, it just doesn't ring true to me. I'd have to see a dps argument going on in every second dungeon for this to be true, and I've never seen anything of the sort.

People who disagree with parsers = Most non-raid players / sensitive
People who doesn't care = Casual raiders / RP / Social / crafters and gatherers / buy wins
People who agree and think parsers are helpful and is needed = mid-hardcore raiders

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

I have to wonder what servers/group these people are on. I suppose now being on Tonberry I can't read the JP comments, but when I was on an english server I saw very little of people spatting over DPS at all. these figures literally show 40% of not only bad dps (it's common, that doesn't concern me) but of bad dps as well as them being the instigators of complaints/problems. from my experience of 2 years+, it just doesn't ring true to me. I'd have to see a dps argument going on in every second dungeon for this to be true, and I've never seen anything of the sort.

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He did not specify if these were all in seperate runs. Maybe in some raids there were two low output dps calling out. It was his project, and unfortunately, the sample size is small, but 100 runs take awhile. I would try this test myself, but unfortunately, being on PS4 does not allow me to.

Tbh, these numbers do not surprise me, since I come from Aether data center. A1/2 is it's own little level of hell lately, with almost all issues I see coming from DPS lately. There have been runs where I've felt that unless I can DPS full time as healer, we can't even come close. Alarums don't get killed, dps don't dodge. I even saw .5 come in at 70% health on #1 recently.

You could be seeing a much different game on a japanese server though. As I understand, clear rates are higher over there, and it is common practice to use PF for learning, and DF for clears, meaning more serious players in DF. There seems to be a real, "You carry me! And you'd best keep quiet about it!" attitude on Aether.

I see no logical reason to disagree with parsers. First, they are already out there - that horse has well and truly bolted, it's not going back to the stable.
It seems far more sensible to get an even playing field between the PC users who have them, and the console users who don't. They are like every other tool you can name. They can be very helpful when used correctly, and they can lop a finger off if you use them badly. No point praising or blaming the tool in either case.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

I would try this test myself.

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I don't think it needs testing in that manner. Do you really see that kind of aggro over dps in every second dungeon? bad dps, maybe, but not a lot of complaining or callouts or fights starting.

I can only assume those figures had the same few @sshats counted many times.

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

I see no logical reason to disagree with parsers. First, they are already out there - that horse has well and truly bolted, it's not going back to the stable.
It seems far more sensible to get an even playing field between the PC users who have them, and the console users who don't. They are like every other tool you can name. They can be very helpful when used correctly, and they can lop a finger off if you use them badly. No point praising or blaming the tool in either case.

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Agreed, and while you would see some a-holes harrassing people with them, it has been pointed out that many of these are already likely to be harassing, leading to not much of a gain in overall harassment. On top of that, instances of harassment like in that quoted text would fall to essentially zero.

By the way low dps was classified as 200 single target, and 300 multi target in that fellows test. Its bad that you would see that many cases of low output dps in that many runs, and those are just the ones getting loud. To put that in perspective, a ~186 DRG (180 weapon) can put out 600 DPS on a dummy, just using the three three attacks in the Thrust rotation, no buffs or anything else, just hitting three buttons.

Do I think the first month or so with them would be rocky, yes. A parser is a big thing, and I think a lot, especially on the NA servers would be in for a shock. But it would settle. I do think the impact will be worse the longer they wait though. Unless they do something like slip it in during a level cap increase.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Chif has gotten himself banned thanks to that link he posted. I tried to warn him...

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I have good news for you. Chif hasn't got as much banned, as the EU characters removed from the database due to Chaos transfer. So he will be back. :)

btw. I wonder who thought that it would be good idea to limit forum posts by character level... so much suffering when you can't reply to anything.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Chif has gotten himself banned thanks to that link he posted.

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I WAS LIKE WUTTT. I've never actually seen SE ban someone for something other than RMT Bots or buyers. But sure enough Chif's Profile was empty and it didnt even mention his character's name... Refresh... Inb4 Welcome to Ragnorak. :D

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

I see no logical reason to disagree with parsers. First, they are already out there - that horse has well and truly bolted, it's not going back to the stable.
It seems far more sensible to get an even playing field between the PC users who have them, and the console users who don't. They are like every other tool you can name. They can be very helpful when used correctly, and they can lop a finger off if you use them badly. No point praising or blaming the tool in either case.

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Exactly this. Those PC players who want to parse are already doing so and yet they aren't causing that huge problem the naysayers are hysteric about. If an official parser would be released, it doesn't even mean SE's policy on harassment would change, they would still keep it a punishable offense to harass people for low DPS numbers.

Exclusion, what do people exactly mean with this? You are refused a static spot for low DPS numbers? Guess what, this already happens because PC. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure you don't want to have an underperforming tank or healer in the static either, so why should a DD be a special snowflake whose performance shouldn't be easily trackable, like how tank/heal performance is?

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

True, many good and bad points have been made on either side, but the person who was trying the hardest to close the thread is gone now. I'm not calling to close the thread, but every point that can be made on the subject has been made repeatedly and we're on our... third? Fourth rotation of the same arguments both for and against. This is the sad fate of every thread about parsers. Right now I think Square has the better notion here, if rumors are to be believed, that there will be some kind of parsing mini-game in the Gold Saucer. Full access no matter the console. Anything more than that and we're back to the lab again...

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I'll keep arguing how overall parsers are a net benefit to the community till I am blue in the face. Isn't that what people do on these forums? Steps of faith had 20 topics dedicated to nerfing an easy fight. Hell there was a 40+ page thread complaining about it within 2 hours of its release if I remember right, and in the end people got what they wanted. A braindead fight.

So yeah, the parser conversation will continue, because those of us who want official parser support know it would overall benefit the community and sadly despite how many good points we make it will be overlooked until we scream just as loud as the people saying 'BUT PEOPLE WILL BE MEAN TO US ON THE INTERNET ABOUT NUMBERS'

I'm honestly just tired of having to deal with lazy/incompetent players in an MMO where people are meant to work together yet DPS classes get a free pass when they decide to pull sub 500 numbers when 300 of that is auto attacks from their eso weapon. A basic rotation would be enough to satisfy anyone on numbers outside of savage/scrict farm PF groups. If you're unwilling to learn even that then you are contributing nothing and it's an insult to the 7 other people carrying your ass.

As for a parser in golden saucer, worthless. Training dummy parses are great for max potential but what really matters is that you can keep up your DPS while dealing with mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

I WAS LIKE WUTTT. I've never actually seen SE ban someone for something other than RMT Bots or buyers. But sure enough Chif's Profile was empty and it didnt even mention his character's name... Refresh... Inb4 Welcome to Ragnorak. :D

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Even if he had got into trouble. It would probably only be a 10 day suspension, which are fairly common. Its commical that Gilrean tried to use it as an excuse to end the thread, as if the OP of a parser threads status has anything to do with the overall debate.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

On that we can agree.


There were several posts that characterized that response, I'd have to go back and re-read the thread to pull a quote, which I'm not going to do, because I know we'll endup arguing semantics and interpretation of words, and will not agree.


I geniunely find it ironic thst people's criticism of a suggestion that would IMO reduce abuse, is to state that it would cause more toxicity. At the same time, the responses described reacting to players 'hiding' their numbers in an entirely negative manner. The implication bring that such players have something to hide. Basically the objection is framed as a self fulfilling prophesy of increased abuse. That is what I consider ironic about the responses.


Actually, I could not believe that people responded so negatively to implementing a full parser in-game, and giving players the option to opt in or out of participating in the parser. There was nothing grand about it, just a little incredulity.

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Sorry it took so long to get back to this.

To me, it was not a negative response. It was people giving realistic critisisms of the idea. Tbh, I found, and still find it unrealistic that anyone cannot see how it actually serves to highlight a player. So I took it as willfully ignoring the obvious so that you could say "Ha! See!", or simply being able to accept critisisms of an idea presented by you.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm sorry this caused so much offense to you...

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It's no problem, I didn't take any personal offense to it. It was more the attitude I took you as having strolling into the thread with. The whole, "I'm going to walk in halfway through and state things that have been being discussed for pages as if no one else was smart enough to think of them or post them!". I'm sure you probably felt a little of it when that pro parser fool came in a few pages back and did the same thing, but all in caps lock with "mind blown" pictures. It happens from time to time and sometime its just like "screw this one!"
But such is the power of the parser debate. We rub each other wrong in here, and thats ok.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Sorry it took so long to get back to this.

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NP, I was checking the topic after seeing your mention earlier that you were still to reply.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

To me, it was not a negative response. It was people giving realistic critisisms of the idea. Tbh, I found, and still find it unrealistic that anyone cannot see how it actually serves to highlight a player. So I took it as willfully ignoring the obvious so that you could say "Ha! See!", or simply being able to accept critisisms of an idea presented by you.

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I can see how it would highlight a player, but I think that happens anyway with the existing use of parsers. Right now with the "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding parser use, no one knows who is/is not parsing until they say so in chat. The problem with is that players who admit to parsing are potentially subject to discipline whether or not they have mis-used parser data at all - which is clearly unfair and wrong. With an official parser there is a chance to make it quite clear what constitutes acceptable use and conduct. Giving players the ability to opt in or out of parsing seems to me to go hand in hand with that clarity, making it easier for players of all types to understand what is going on, and avoid situations that could lead to trouble.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

It's no problem, I didn't take any personal offense to it. It was more the attitude I took you as having strolling into the thread with. The whole, "I'm going to walk in halfway through and state things that have been being discussed for pages as if no one else was smart enough to think of them or post them!". I'm sure you probably felt a little of it when that pro parser fool came in a few pages back and did the same thing, but all in caps lock with "mind blown" pictures. It happens from time to time and sometime its just like "screw this one!"
But such is the power of the parser debate. We rub each other wrong in here, and thats ok.

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Unfortunately, we often walk into debates halfway through because we find a post that triggers our desire to respond several pages deep in the more recent comments, before we've had a chance to read the remainder of the discussion. It is the power of debate, whether about parsers or other matters. Of course, text only discussions on the internet have suffered these kinds of difficulty since forever. Whether we rub each other wrong in this topic or others, we agree in other areas. Either way, it is, as you say, OK.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Even if he had got into trouble. It would probably only be a 10 day suspension, which are fairly common. Its commical that Gilrean tried to use it as an excuse to end the thread, as if the OP of a parser threads status has anything to do with the overall debate.

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Glad I could bring a little humor to your day. As for Chif, his forum profile went blank well before the datacenter maintenance so take that what you will. I do hope he takes the time to learn what's appropriate to post on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Glad I could bring a little humor to your day. As for Chif, his forum profile went blank well before the datacenter maintenance so take that what you will. I do hope he takes the time to learn what's appropriate to post on the forums.

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Your profile won't go blank when you're banned.

Use it for yourself, that's fine. Use it to insult another player which I had the unfortunate luck of seeing it happen in Alex a day or so ago..then I have a problem

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Use it for yourself, that's fine. Use it to insult another player which I had the unfortunate luck of seeing it happen in Alex a day or so ago..then I have a problem

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Pretty much everyone has a problem with that.
Harassment is NEVER something that should be tolerated. But at the same time, blatant disregard of other people's time by completely slacking also should not be tolerated, it's already not tolerated for tanks and healers, but for some reason DPS get a free pass.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

Pretty much everyone has a problem with that.
Harassment is NEVER something that should be tolerated. But at the same time, blatant disregard of other people's time by completely slacking also should not be tolerated, it's already not tolerated for tanks and healers, but for some reason DPS get a free pass.

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Here is the thing. That person who is apparently slacking may be doing something wrong. Maybe they're forgetting their dots or certain skills. It's not really a hard thing to give someone tips to better their DPS. If they don't listen, then that is their fault. But just sitting there insulting them won't help at all. It will most likely make the person do worse. I fail to understand why so many people that play this game would rather resort to just blatantly insulting instead of actually trying to help the person.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

But just sitting there insulting them won't help at all.

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No offense, but I feel like you should've just said this in party chat when you saw it. It's not really relevant to this discussion. No one here is saying people should go around insulting people.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Here is the thing. That person who is apparently slacking may be doing something wrong. Maybe they're forgetting their dots or certain skills. It's not really a hard thing to give someone tips to better their DPS. If they don't listen, then that is their fault. But just sitting there insulting them won't help at all. It will most likely make the person do worse. I fail to understand why so many people that play this game would rather resort to just blatantly insulting instead of actually trying to help the person.

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So now we are back to where a parser would be useful, forget what other people might say that person who is doing something wrong can straight up see that other DPS are far above him, so he might take a step back and say woah, my numbers are terrible, wonder what I am doing wrong, and then go find out and improve.

As for this whole, sitting there and insulting crap, I'm tired of this argument being the number one go to excuse for not having a parser, toxic players are toxic, whether they have a parser or not. I don't want a useful tool that would help the majority of the player base kept out of the game because of the minority of players that would be toxic no matter what, there is a report feature, simply use it if someone is harassing the same way you do for ANY other situation.

Honestly for every person that complains about parse numbers right now I guarantee you there are a tonne of others using it that don't say a word, even when your bard is doing 260 DPS in A3 with Eso gear...(it happens)

Honestly, I would laugh if people's parses are telling them they hit for 1350 DPS and SE's built in parse says it's actually 600.

Because we all know everyone would continue to believe the larger number to feel better about themselves claiming that the official parse is flawed.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

Honestly, I would laugh if people's parses are telling them they hit for 1350 DPS and SE's built in parse says it's actually 600.

Because we all know everyone would continue to believe the larger number to feel better about themselves claiming that the official parse is flawed.

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Unless it would be flawed on purpose... The conspiracy to save people's feelings O_O

I would want se to continue making fights where it is not required to use a parser. Because if they tried making an official parser their development and priorities as to what an official parser displays are not going to match the pc crowd's interests.