Block first timers from Party Finder!

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

i don't believe that a function like this is necessary, but believe what you will.

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Most features aren't necessary.

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

i don't believe that a function like this is necessary, but believe what you will.

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Necessary to what? Because I assure you the majority of things in this game aren't necessary.

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

i don't believe that a function like this is necessary, but believe what you will.

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I'd really hate to start a farm party to have one or more players who want to be assholes and join and waste everybody's time without consent because last time I remember, the party wasn't listed as a learning party. Once we enter that instance and we see the new player bonus, me and possibly other players will be generally annoyed and just leave, going back to step 1. Worst but common case scenario, the party collectively disbands. Either that, or the party goes "idc", kills the boss, then the new player gets the loot and bails to shit up the next party(and my blacklist). It's pretty much why I stopped hosting pony farms.

Now, if the player simply asked, maybe, just MAYBE the party would be okay with taking them along depending on the content. Pony farms are easier thanks to unsync, but you're still at the mercy of mechanics in fights such as Ifrit. Since fights like those are generally easy, parties might not mind giving the new guys a rundown since it won't take much time if they speak up. However, if they don't and keep wiping the group, they're just going to think the player is a general asshole that only seeks to leech and hate your guts. Our annoyance is pretty much directed at the people who try to leech off of others.

This whole idea may put up a seemingly elitist(when it's not) front at FIRST GLANCE, but it's more of at the convenience of everyone that isn't a person out to waste people's time.

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Originally Posted by Phireblast

So how am I supposed to show a proof of clear when I don't have the item I desire? The only thing someone can do is secretly check the player's lodestone, but most people have their achievements private by default. If we're speaking strictly 3.0, we COULD show a totem, but it wasn't so simple in 2.0.

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Not to mention that even if you don't have one... you can just right-click a totem someone else has linked and link it from that -_- and if people go "link me in a /tell" to prevent that, the first-timer can still ask a friend/FC-mate to link them a weapon or token or something ("I just want to see what it looks like! :D" or "Can't find mine on my retainers >.< need to Search for it") and link from that. And we're back to square one again =/

I've also run into times when I've decided not to join a PF listing due to them requiring linking a drop, and while I've done the duty two or three times, I haven't gotten 'my' drop yet, and I haven't won any greed rolls either. So while I'm not new I don't have the loot to show for it, and... yeah. (This was before they allowed you to link from the chat log, mind you, but it's also what made me very quickly realize why the 'link drop' doesn't work.)

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

i don't believe that a function like this is necessary, but believe what you will.

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What? O.o I don't use PF that often, either through creating or joining, but the times I have, I've seen plenty of sneaky newbies, some who will say nothing to the question of who brought on the "new player bonus!" message, and some who will outright lie and say they're not new, only to get the achievement at the end of the fight (at which point they've either been dead for 20% of the boss's health, or have double 'rez sickness'). This one guy in Ifrit who kept running around like a lunatic, hugging healers and bringing eruptions to the tank, ignoring tethers and mostly ignoring nails... In a farm party. And just a short while after that, I saw him starting a primal farm party of his own (Levi, I think), and I thought to myself, "Really? Really now?"

And if that kind of thing (though maybe not quite as extreme) has happened in at least half the PFs I've been in... I shudder to think of what it looks like to those people who regularly do use the PF. Sure, I might have been just unlucky, since I only have a small sample size to go on, but even so... It shouldn't be something we have to 'learn to live with'.

How would an optional system that would block new-comers from joining into a specific PF listing not be preferrable to no such system and leaving the PF leaders to weed those new-comers out manually through trial and error, interrogating everyone in the party once the bonus message comes up, demanding drop linking which is easily circumvented, searching for party members on Lodestone and hope their achievement list isn't hidden from view, and after all that time (which probably took as long as 3-4 farm runs or longer) hope that the rest of the party is still interested in going? How? O.o I... fail to understand how people would prefer the second method.

All of this sounds good on paper, but I can only see this making things worse in the long run. Newbs won't create learning parties becauae they'll never clear, and will opt to buy their clears instead. Vets won't make learning parties because there would be no benefit now that they can reliably ban newbs from entry. As generous as the op is painting themselves out to be, I'd wager that once this idea is implemented, and they finally got all the loot they wanted, they'd never make a learning party ( which is fine because there would be no point), and that would be one less good samaritan.

That said, I actually AM in support of the OP's proposal because there's no logical reason not to. I just think it will end in the worst possible way because the western playerbase is THAT awful

Honestly you just sound like you're either an elitist or a lazy person so here is some solutions for you.

TLDR; Don't be lazy and help thy neighbor. Solution 1 and 3 can help you with this. If you're selfish and don't care about the community in the long run I recommend solution 2.

1. Teach People. On week one of release me and my static could 5man Ravana. Selling to people who knew NOTHING of the fight. Not many fights in this game can be screwed up by a single person. If it's that bad, oh well it's just 15 minutes. 15 minutes should not matter, it's not life or death. By becoming more skilled yourself you can compensate for the shortcomings of others. This is one of the biggest things you learn as a career healer or tank. Helping the community helps you in the long run.

2. Don't be lazy. Go into the Lode Stone and see if they have the achievement. There is no excuse. Even PSN users can view the lode stone with out closing the game. If the achievements are blocked. Ask them politely explaining that it's a farm that requires proof to join. If they can't provide proof kick them.

3. Network. Guess what you were a noob once also. Train people and actually become friends. We have 3 people in my static that started off as shit. We went through 5 pros because of timezone differences. You talk about some friends just not being on or enjoying the farm content that you like to farm. Well that can be fixed by putting in the effort to make some more friends. If you are farming ponies with a bunch of people chances are some one those people enjoy farming for mounts and stuff. Become friends. Then boom just like that you have 3 friends who enjoy farming the same stuff you do and you know they play around the same time because you're on together at the same time.

They're dozens of solutions to your problem that can be fixed by just being lazy be it as a casual or a hardcore. If you want change to happen then how about you be that change. You want players to let you know they are new? Stop kicking new players and teach them fights. Why do you thin knew players have to pipe down? Even if it is a farm. Some content is so old that you only find farm parties anymore. When is the last time you saw a Titan Learning Party? If proof of completion is that important to you then get off your FC chat and jump onto the Lode Stone. (Everything I've said applies to everything in the game. Be it Party/Dutyfinder or crafting out front of the FC mansion.)

No game Dev in there right mind thinks it's a good idea to split up a community even if only by a filter. Because that is what it is, a Community. I gave you three perfect solutions. Feel free to use them. Requests like this only make the divide between casual/hardcore and noobs/veterans even larger.

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

same old same old.

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you are missing the point, it's for the same specific reason like number 2 that something like OP is suggesting would be a nice add and would save up the time and problem, "I DON'T NEED RUNNING SHOES TO RUN, BUT IT CERTAINLY HELPS" so instead of going to all the fuss you are calling people "lazy" for, getting out of the game to check on the website this specific person's achievement, if not visible requesting them to show them (this might even lead to some back and forth), ""that specific person would need to get out of the game also to change setting" probably will need some guidance (just to prove he's on farm) and if they don't comply will end up in probably drama, insults and a bad vibe, just to kick them anyways...wasting time for me and 6 other people to put up again a PF and wait for that one person to join back that it "might depend between 2,3 or 20 minutes for someone to join back" and if it's a TANK or HEALER might end up disbanding the party......TO SAVE ALL THIS TROUBLE AND PROBLEMS it will be nice to just have a feature to just not allow players that has not pass the fight yet.

ho! let's not forget you will need to do this with every single person that comes to your pf..definitely not a good idea :)

for "number 1." not everyone is your static, not everyone has the skill to 5 man an ex primal, and definitely not everyone will have the same coordination with 8 random people as you have 5 static members, 1 person can actually screw any current, extreme fight in this game specially if they are tank or healers, and if they are dps they can actually clip other member with mechaninc and end on disaster... and those 15 minutes of smooth clears to "FARM" becomes a tiring run of hitting your head with a wall, people get tire, start loosing focus, keep wiping, etc... which is why a "farmir" PT exist, so we don't run into this scenarios...

so number 1 and 2 are just base on your complete OP which in MY OP are poorly though, just because you had a better experience with a static and don't mind wasting time getting of the game to single handle check every single member that comes into your PT, doesn't mean everyone will be ok doing that, we are not you!.

and for "number 3" and part of your " number 1". GUESS WHAT! not everyone single person lives on mommy's basement, have all free time in the world and dedicates 100% to this game. some of us work, some of study, some of us just have a very busy social life, and some of us "like me" in the worst case scenario have all those 3 combined.

- SUUUURE helping the community helps you in the long run.
- SUUUURE being an skillfull player will help you "carry" the slack of other
- SUUUURE you are to over yourself and your static that you fail to realize that not every single person on this game has a dadicated "STATIC"

you fail to realize "again" that not everyone is you, you fail to realize that 8 random people will not...
- have the same coordination as 5 dedicated static (you know? sometimes has nothing to do with skill but rather "communication")
- with that comes, "comfort". because you and your static have done the fight together 300 times and know exactly how each of you play doesn't mean that 8 random people will exactly know what is the next move of their team m8.
- and last but not least, is not the same 5 skilled players, probably decently geared or greatly geared than 8 random people with different gear levels, and super perfect robotic skill to not gt hit or screw one move to perfectly acomodate the fight like 5 skilled static members can do.

so, back on point, "SOME" of us don't have the time to waste 40 min to create a PF to then wipe, back up, kik, probably disband as some people will be impatient and or just don't have time for that, recreating the pt wait another 40 to have a possible change to get another "new player" to F up your party again :)

HO! and guess what! some of us just can't have a fully dedicated and timed static to work around the game, some of are yous normal people who just want to come along and enjoy a game we really love so yeah, good for you and your static for helping people that's a plus and something really nice to see withing our community, but some of us just want to take that little time we find to progress as much as we can when we find this little time on our busy lifes...

AND JUST SO YOU KNOW, if I wanted to help the community I would create learning party to teach new people, I won't create a "FARMING" party to have people sneaking around to abuse the time from others who probably just don't have it, or people who just want to get their loot and enjoy an smooth play rather than wiping time and time again...

and bout your last post...if the content is not relevant anymore there wont be "farm parties" it would be outgeared and EASILY beatable if you ask anyone I'm sure they will not care to carry anyone I don't think new people will find any problem to fit in any of those fight... this threat is focused on current content...and that NOOB/VETERAN nonsense you just gave it to much tough as this "famr" "learning" party already exist, this will just allow for people to not abuse from other to get something for themself and screw everyone else.

have a nice day and take those "DOZENS SOLUTION" wit you as we are not interested on any of them, we are fully aware of how things work. thanks.

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

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Great suggestions that could lead to... elitist community.

I can't shake off the feeling that after the initial period of helping others the sheer amount of work it puts on few individuals would eventually result in white listing and that would prevent even more new players from learning the game.

"Are you on the list? No. Well sorry we can't help you, but if you get refferenced by another member of our society we might give you a shot. Of course if you fail your friend will be kicked, so tread lightly..."

It looks great on the paper, but help from the top can't last long without players helping themselves from the bottom.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Great suggestions that could lead to... elitist community.

I can't shake off the feeling that after the initial period of helping others the sheer amount of work it puts on few individuals would eventually result in white listing and that would prevent even more new players from learning the game.

"Are you on the list? No. Well sorry we can't help you, but if you get refferenced by another member of our society we might give you a shot. Of course if you fail your friend will be kicked, so tread lightly..."

It looks great on the paper, but help from the top can't last long without players helping themselves from the bottom.

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so true I feel bad I can't hit the like bottom more... some people forget we all started as noob with no one to carry our hands.

My points have nothing to do with elitism. Hell I don't even raid that much anymore simply because I don't find it fun and choose to focus more on completionist stuff atm like minion collecting. Obviously it's implied that not only should end game players help newbs but newbs should help themselves. That goes with out saying. Your type of thinking is why people just stick to there crowds of friends and ignore the outside player base letting the game die. I can pick up a shitty no name mmo that I used to play and still find the game thriving with it's own establish player base because it's filled with intelligent people who understand how to groom a society towards making sure everyone is having fun, and yes an mmo player base is a society. It's millions of people gaming together in a world created by the devs. It also takes almost no effort to teach someone how to play FFXIV. With the game devs still learning what works and what does not FFXIV is one of the easiest MMO's out there. I've seen people learn Ravana EX after 1 video and 4 wipes with half the players being new

And about the comment about me being in my mothers basement? I work full time with a boyfriend and social life and still find time to help my fellow man in the game while keeping part of the world/server first race with end game raiding and I know tons of casual people who don't raid who do the exact same thing. It all comes down to you being lazy and selfish and out to only help yourself (Which in 3-6 years from now if you're still playing will only come back to bite you in the ass) If someone who works, cares for another, and lives a vibrant social life outside of the game can help people while still being end game and getting everything I want done, done. Then someone who really is a basement dweller can help a million times more.

I would also like to point out as evident in MMORPG's like WoW. The alienation of new players is what kills MMO's. You should be thinking further ahead then what loot might drop from the monster you're killing

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

AGAIN, we are not all you

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m8 at no point in my comment I mention you as the person living on mommy's basement, If you felt offended by it that's your business.


quick been so full of yourself for one, I've as much as you have helped, tons load of fellow members of this community to beat fights and patches, even went above and beyond as to easy some of the fight as solo tank/heal to allow a extra DPS in a party, and WHEN I'M HELPING them is when I CHOOSE to spend MY time to do THAT, NOW! when I CHOOSE MY time to PROGRESS then that's when I WONT CARRY NO ONES TO WASTE THAT TIME. again we are not all you, ho! you good for you to work full time and socialize and find time... I do also work full time, from 8am to 5pm and have to go to my university from 5:15pm to 1am + studies +work projects + girlfriend + 5 days a week living me weekends to probably attend to more bussines stuff, more work project and be human a little with family and friends, leaven probably just a few hours on sundays and or choosing between sleep or game, which most of the time consist on running some roulette and or lvling some classes.... so YEAH! quick putting yourself as the general example as if anyone lives like you do, and again. I've help the community as well... but if I'M ON A FARM PT IS TO FARM NOT TO CARRY AND WASTE TIME. nothing greedy aboutit. in fact is more greedy to take advange of people like me to get your win get out and possibly steal your loot.


btw quick note, you can edit your last post to avoid the character limit of your post.

TLDR; If end game farming is easy then the MMO has failed. End game clears take time and effort. The is why there is also casual content for the people who don't have a lot of spare time.

Farming end game content is meant to be hard. You're meant to hit your head against a wall. If you just want to drift along and enjoy the game. End game content is not for you. There is a reason we have casual, hardcore, and in between content. There is a reason why there has NEVER been a successful mmo that had an endgame that could be cleared by the worst of players. If you had a filter so only clears could join you been in the PF for 6-7 hours anyway. Most people get there items and stuff. Only a small group of people farm for tons of items. So suck it up, let the noob in, and hit you head against the wall for a clear.

Once you've done that. Farm away. Or you know, you can wait 8 hours for a full party of people you have to filter through weather or not they Have cleared it already, would like to clear it again, are willing to wait for a PF to fill up, have all the right stuff downloaded for VOIP or sit through the entire Party Chat explanation of how this group will do the fight. You can head into your end game farm. Oh that is if no one left while you were screening people through all of those filters. While I'll have spent that same amount of time teaching someone the fight and we'll have gotten our clear around the same time but you will come out with loot and I'll come out with loot and another person on my FL who can clear end game content.

The only difference is if you had it your way you would spend HOURS finding people who met all the requirements and I'll have spend the same amount (Maybe less) teaching someone. We'll both have our clears, but you'll have aliened people and maybe caused someone to quit because they can't find a learning party and no one will help them.

Ps: thanks for the tip, it's really helpful, and I thought the basement comment was passively implied rather then flat out accused. Sorry for the mistake.

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

here we go again.

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end game is not for me ? says who? you? who are you?
that's a really poor statement, end game is there for everyone and if I can do it, anyone capable to reach till that point is capable too, I already had my shares of hitting myself against the wall, I beat the content, and to progress I get along the players who also overcame the fight and can farm the gear, which actually requires time since you are not guaranteed to get your desired loot from them. what you consider "casual" I consider "boring" and it's not what I come to this game for, if all i wanted is casual content i wouldn't be farming I'll stick to ESO gear one EXPERT a week and good, BUT I like the challenge I like the farm, I like to work hard and seen the effort pay off. Just because you are on a farm PT doesn't mean you will have a easy run, you still required to put all of yourself in to to ensure the fight goes smoothly, the only thing you ensure is a locked loot, so when it actually drop you can get it, and that people wont be killing the party wasting time and time again on silly stuff...

and my friend if I'm greedy for wanting a farm PT to farm my gear I don't know what you are with a static, you should go for your own words drop your static, and help people on your own if that's is so much what you wanted, hit yourself on that wall instead of carring people around, make learn pt, and go into SAVAGE ALEXANDER without your designated group so each day you will be helping new people....we both know you won't do that, because at the end of the day that's not hhow this works, the only way to progress is with designated people you can rely on, if you plan on every single day run with noobs half of our community will still be on titan.

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

TLDR;
Once you've done that. Farm away. Or you know, you can wait 8 hours for a full party of people you have to filter through weather or not they Have cleared it already, would like to clear it again, are willing to wait for a PF to fill up, have all the right stuff downloaded for VOIP or sit through the entire Party Chat explanation of how this group will do the fight. You can head into your end game farm. Oh that is if no one left while you were screening people through all of those filters. While I'll have spent that same amount of time teaching someone the fight and we'll have gotten our clear around the same time but you will come out with loot and I'll come out with loot and another person on my FL who can clear end game content.

The only difference is if you had it your way you would spend HOURS finding people who met all the requirements and I'll have spend the same amount (Maybe less) teaching someone. We'll both have our clears, but you'll have aliened people and maybe caused someone to quit because they can't find a learning party and no one will help them.

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edit: that's a factor the neither you and I can prove so it's a mistake to put it as a fact, with that filter it might just get people quicker and those PT more successful and secured ensuring a fast and smooth clear, making it faster to get done it with and have a good experience, that taking your own words, some of us might find really upsetting people taking advantage of us and end up getting frustrated with the community causing them to quit. And at the same time, you might help people to clear or you migh find yourself hitting yourself on the same wall over and over and over again, with no progress that day, and if you actually helped people you should know this is the standar with new players, because they aswell get tired and frustrated of wiping and wiping and end up giving that infamous sentence " this is my last one" and as soon as one leaves, then goes another one and another one, end up with probably 1 or 2 or porbably none since they see the PT went away and they know it will take more time to reform the party and end up with new people to teach and repeat all the procress again on an endless loop of WASTED TIME....

PS: no problem I understand the nature of my post migh seem a little on the offensive way rather than discussing, and also glad to help.

little bump!

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

Farming end game content is meant to be hard. You're meant to hit your head against a wall.

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Um.... No. "Farming" implies in itself that you've mastered the content in question to the point where you can go in and one-shot it, or at least down it with just one wipe in case of accidents (since they happen now and then, even when you've done something dozens of times).
Yes, clearing/downing end-game content is meant to be hard. Learning the content (after clearing it) to the point where you have it on farm takes time. But a farm party implies that the people in there actually know the content. It's not really for the people who cleared it once and are still amazed that it happened. A farm party's main target group is the people who have cleared the content multiple times, and who can go in with the expectation to clear it every time -- provided the rest of the group is at the same level. It's intended for multiple, quick runs, to get loot for as many people as possible.

True, some people who join -- who have cleared the content -- are still not at that level, and people who have bought a clear while lying dead or sitting outside the arena wouldn't set off the "bonus run" message. And even with this kind of system in place, they'd be able to get into the farm party, but why would it be really bad to bar new people from joining?

Personally, I would see it as a good thing. It would mean that there would be more practice- and clear parties, since the people sneaking into farm parties wouldn't be able to do that and would have to make their own (or wait for someone else to do it). It would mean that said practice and clear parties would in all probability fill up faster. And it would mean that the people in those practice and clear parties would learn the content more in-depth than they would by being carried, and once they had their clear, they'd get to 'I have it on farm' a lot quicker than if they were carried. Sure, the entire process would take longer, due to the beating-your-head-against-the-wall, but... I can't say I don't see that as being fair, and that's with me being late to end-game content, barely having started second coil by the time final coil came out, and I still haven't set foot in Alex Savage, nor beaten final coil (since it's a side-project in my FC/static).

I don't agree that it would take hours to fill a farm party, if the people joining it could be assured that there'd be no first-timers sneaking in there -- it's one thing that has sometimes kept me away from joining -- but to be honest, I'd rather it took longer to fill the party than fill it up relatively quickly only to get in and realize at least someone is trying to get a ninja clear.

And like people have said, they have sometimes said, "Fine, you can stay, we'll teach you the fight." Only to have the newcomer afterwards say, "Thanks for the clear, I'm out!" instead of staying for those multiple runs that the PF listing indicated.

TLDR; If you want place where only good people join your game then hop onto a Japanese server. Beacuse the chances of a filter being added are slim to none with Yoshi P in charge and a lot of Westerners are to selfish to want to try and change how the community views things.

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On your first point. Yoshi P himself as said endgame is not for people who don't have the free time to clear it. I brought that up because you've mentioned twice now about how little free time you have in a day like it was a soapbox to stand on. If you are good enough of a player to clear endgame content in what you consider to be an incredibly small about on free time in a day then congratulations. Saying it's for everyone is just incorrect. One of the largest selling points of an MMO is that there is something for everyone. Someone people dungeons with a fucking passion. But they play the MMO because they love crafting and PvP. I know people who are on A4 last phase and don't have a crafter leveled past 1 and have not even unlocked the Gold Saucer. My boyfriend literally only plays this game because of the glamour system. End game is not meant for him.

The main point was this conversation was about noobs ruining end game for a few people. I think we can all agree that the people who just flat out lie are scum bags. Every community be it game or otherwise for as long as people have socialized have come across a scum bag or an asshole. It's a constant that will never change. But when it comes to MMO's you'll be playing with noobs. The reason noobs go into farms is because even if they know 100% of the fight people won't take them and that is one of the biggest problems about the NA community.

You talk about time. Well it's more cost effective to help someone learn the fight then spend hours waiting for people who have a clear, want to farm an item, and are okay doing it with randoms. With a filter like you and the OP talk about what happens to the players who know the fight 100% but don't have a clear because of bad parties? What if I feel like clearing A4 again with an alt but I can't do it with a static because of loot lock outs. Or want to clear Ravana on hours I don't normally play. Should I be locked out because a filter thinks I've never cleared it? All a filter like the does is kill the game

What you're asking for is the ability to spend 5 hours on your ass waiting for a party to fill up as apposed to spending 3 hours teaching someone the fight can clearing. You can twist and twine the word every which way but it comes down to being lazy and content that is meant to be hard and frustration to be made easier.

A quote from Yoshi P himself pertaining to the EX Primal on release was "It won't be easy. Most people might need a static or group of friends to tackle the content with" and he said something similar bout Alex Savage. Just because you pay for the game does not mean the entire game has to be geared towards you and your style. That's the nature of an MMO. If you want an online game that plays like a single player. You should buy Warframe. Or if it HAS to be an MMORPG then try ESO. The endgame can be done with no effort at all.

It's honestly doesn't matter because Yoshi is on my side. Him as other panelists representing the FFXIV dev team have flat out told people they will not add filters that split up the community anymore then daily roulette's already do so this thread is on deaf ears from the start. The real problem here is people who think it's a good idea to split the community who think having an (For lake of better term) Upper class, middle class, and the poor system is a good idea when it comes to end game raiding. If you want farms then make a static. The reason it works so well on the Japanese server is because they are doing exactly what I talk about. It's just a fault of our own that when it comes to video game a large majority of westerner are terribly selfish people who don't think about the bigger picture.

Wingsofnth what the heck are you talking about, You do know this is PARTY FINDER not DUTY FINDER, the point is TO FIND LIKE MINDED PLAYERS TO DO LIKE MINDED CONTENT.

INFACT read the games active help section on party finder, states that it is used to form parties to do all content. Pre formed groups are not "playing with randoms" Like duty finder.

If he doesn't even know what farming is...

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Me neither! Nice to know, (thanks for the information).

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its reportable by 2 thing
1) breaking player agreement
2) disruption of game play

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Wingsofnth what the heck are you talking about, You do know this is PARTY FINDER not DUTY FINDER, the point is TO FIND LIKE MINDED PLAYERS TO DO LIKE MINDED CONTENT.

INFACT read the games active help section on party finder, states that it is used to form parties to do all content. Pre formed groups are not "playing with randoms" Like duty finder.

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So I can assume from this quote that no one you play with in the PF is a random? he PF and the DF are vurtually the exact same thing. Only with the PF being cross server and the PF being locked to server only with the ability to be picky. It's still random. If you're playing with a full group of friends then you don't use the PF or DF -_- You just jump into the content

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

If he doesn't even know what farming is...

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I know what farming it. I have lots of fun clearing Savage and can't wait to farm it once the cap is released. ^^ If you read past the TLDR part you'de know I knew what farming is and I also go into explaining why some people sneak into farms

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

PF and the DF are vurtually the exact same thing. Only with the PF being cross server and the PF being locked to server only with the ability to be picky. It's still random.

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It's not entirely the same, no.

DF: You enter the instance, get grouped up with random people who might have completely different levels of experience and expectations, and once you're done -- if you down the thing -- you're highly unlikely to meet the same people if you go back in. Any tactics you agree on, and voicechat options, have to be discussed during the time limit of the duty.

PF: You're able to state the intent with the party so like-minded people can join you. You can discuss tactics and plans beforehand. You can select specific loot rules depending on what kind of farm it is and what type of gear people are after. You can discuss voicechat options before going in, to make call-outs easier. And most importantly, you can go into the duty with the same people several times.

Yes, the first time will be the trickiest, when people get used to the other players' way of doing things, but every time after that will be easier and easier -- and a farm party usually has the "Multiple runs for the loot" checkbox ticked in, meaning multiple runs are intended.

Likewise, a practice party are able to specify which phase they intend to practice, and ideally they get other party members who are at the same stage. And a clear party will ideally be joined by other players who're aaaaaalmost there.

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DF: You enter the instance, get grouped up with random people who might have completely different levels of experience and expectations, and once you're done -- if you down the thing -- you're highly unlikely to meet the same people if you go back in.

PF: You're able to state the intent with the party so like-minded people can join you. You can discuss tactics and plans beforehand. You can select specific loot rules depending on what kind of farm it is and what type of gear people are after. And most importantly, you can go into the duty with the same people several times.

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Everything you said about PF can be done in the DF with the exception to finding the same people 100% of the time (Lootrules are a moot point cause they only really matter in statics. People just don't trust randoms in PF with lootmaster). The fact still remains that NA servers are not noob friendly. The new players who have friends learn with the pros and the only just coming to the game or just hitting level cap are stuck in the gutters of there servers looking at the PF because people treat the DF like shit. This problem can be changed with a change of attitude. A problem that the Japanese servers have already fixed with there way of thinking.

i think wingsoftheNth just read the title

And dude/chick I play on a jp server and had just as much as an issue with making pf runs to learn/clear bizmark ppl bail ate wipes, don't matter what you set it up as. :/

I think more filters in pf is a good thing, PARTY FINDER GROUPS are NOT ment to be all inclusive. They are fir LIKE MINDED players to join in LIKE MINDED content.

A player set up a party with party finder has every right to set up a party with what ever rules or setting they wish. When you join parties you agree to those rules. Going against those rules breaks the "player agreement" clause in the ToS and if can be considered under the "disruption of gameplay" clause as well because if you don't follow with the set rules, like "farm" party causing "wipes" you are disrupting the other players trying to farm

Bothe are found under the harrasment section

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

Everything you said about PF can be done in the DF with the exception to finding the same people 100% of the time (Lootrules are a moot point cause they only really matter in statics. People just don't trust randoms in PF with lootmaster). The fact still remains that NA servers are not noob friendly. The new players who have friends learn with the pros and the only just coming to the game or just hitting level cap are stuck in the gutters of there servers looking at the PF because people treat the DF like shit. This problem can be changed with a change of attitude. A problem that the Japanese servers have already fixed with there way of thinking.

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I play ona jp server... nothing you said is true.

also read the active help for party finder might learn something. DF is suppose to be ALL INCLUSIVE. PF is EXCLUSIVE TO LIKE MINDED PLAYERS. anyone can join df. not everying can/should join pf groups if the leader states they are not welcome.

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When you join parties you agree to those rules. Going against those rules breaks the "player agreement" clause in the ToS and if can be considered under the "disruption of gameplay" clause as well because if you don't follow with the set rules, like "farm" party causing "wipes" you are disrupting the other players trying to farm

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That is jut demonstrably wrong. If you've ever filled out a complaint in game you'd know that a GMod contacts you with in 30 minutes to talk to you directly about the issue. The clause is to stop people like WHM's who just type "lol" in a fight and watch people die because they find it funny. I've talked to GMod about this personally in detail.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

not everying can/should join pf groups if the leader states they are not welcome.

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Not once did I say they should. I simply gave the reasons why they would and ways to fix the problem(Those being previous posts). Please read my posts before typing. Most of them are not long and the ones that are normally have a TLDR; as the header.

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I play ona jp server...

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I also play on a Japanese Serve with an alt. Obviously when I made a statement like that it's assumed that people understand I'm talking about a majority or large portion. I'm not claiming everyone does it. No community is perfect.

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

So I can assume from this quote that no one you play with in the PF is a random? he PF and the DF are vurtually the exact same thing. Only with the PF being cross server and the PF being locked to server only with the ability to be picky. It's still random. If you're playing with a full group of friends then you don't use the PF or DF -_- You just jump into the content

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"random" person you meet and never talk to again as depicted by WoW.

WingsofNth, you either just read the title. Or a person who joins farm parties for a clear. Party finder is bare bones options are a good thing. I'm not only for this option, but hope more refinement comes to the PF system cuz as of right now players are realistically unable to really build the groups they want. By what ur saying groups should be forced to help every newbie looking for a clear. Thats unrealistic.

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

Not once did I say they should. I simply gave the reasons why they would and ways to fix the problem(Those being previous posts). Please read my posts before typing. Most of them are not long and the ones that are normally have a TLDR; as the header.



I also play on a Japanese Serve with an alt. Obviously when I made a statement like that it's assumed that people understand I'm talking about a majority or large portion. I'm not claiming everyone does it. No community is perfect.

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I read them :) And i can tell you are EXTREMELY new to the mmo genre.
Also a bit of info, putting TLRD at the START of your posts makes it read that the posts/thread what too long and didn't read. Also summaries happen at the end. :P

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

That is jut demonstrably wrong. If you've ever filled out a complaint in game you'd know that a GMod contacts you with in 30 minutes to talk to you directly about the issue. The clause is to stop people like WHM's who just type "lol" in a fight and watch people die because they find it funny. I've talked to GMod about this personally in detail.

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gmod?? wtf a gmod (teasing) They are called gm as in game masters, and what i said is true, breaking player agreements and disrupting their farm runs for a clear by ToS is considered harrassment.
And everything you stated about the JP server is wrong. And I do not recall yoshida saying that either the game was built from the ground up for people of various play scheduals. Most ebdgame content itself lasts 30 min.

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

So suck it up, let the noob in, and hit you head against the wall for a clear.

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I already spend a good portion of my time helping people learn and get clears on everything from T1 to A2S. My static ran learning parties every Saturday night in the six weeks leading up to Heavensward, mostly teaching T9 and T13 but a few other things too. We still get together on occasion to teach fights to people that ask us directly. I love to help people learn, but I still don't see how there's anything wrong with me wanting to join a farm party in order to, y'know, actually farm something with people that already know the fight. When I join a farm party, I have a certain expectation of the other members - that they are capable of actually farming the content. Shocking, I know. If someone joins that's been to <5% multiple times but just can't seem to get a party that can put the nail in the coffin, I'm all for letting them in. I've been there. If someone joins that hasn't even cracked open a guide, they can turn around, toodle their way on back out, and go make a learning party. They're more than welcome to ask for help with a learning party at some point, but I don't see how it makes me a terrible person to actually want to get some clears when I sit down to farm.

I don't join a farm to beat my head against a wall while someone learns a difficult mechanic. I join learning parties to help with that.

Also, your character looks eerily similar to mine. o.o

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

I read them :) And i can tell you are EXTREMELY new to the mmo genre.

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Sorry Miss. Been playing MMO's for about 12 years now with a perfect ToS record. A lot of ToS are written in Lawyer speak it's easy to think something means one thing when it actually means another. (You should see the lawyer speak in the test needed to get your license to serve alcohol xD). You can fill out a forum in game if you like to talk directly to a GMod about this question to help clear things up.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Also, your character looks eerily similar to mine. o.o

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It's okay you can call me handsome =P

But in all seriousness I never said you should be able to farm. I just explained why people lie to get in and how it can be fixed with a change of attitude rather then a filter that dig a wedge people into the raiding community.

PS. Your signature makes me giggle =P

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

(Lootrules are a moot point cause they only really matter in statics. People just don't trust randoms in PF with lootmaster).

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Maybe not; I know I wouldn't trust many people with it. But there's also the "Greed only" loot rule, in case someone going as healer or tank is really after the caster boots, and you want to prevent any casters in the party to just Need on them and prevent the person (who switched role to accomodate the party) from having a chance at them. Something that is extra annoying in DF, since people are a lot more anonymous and thus more likely to Need on something if they can.

And no, everything can't be done in DF -- you'll notice I specified discussing things prior to going in? That's one of the bigger issues. Most duties have a time limit of 60-90 minutes. Not only are people very uninterested in talking things through in DF, or even communicating beyond "hello", "****ing noobs", "screw you, I quit" and "gg bb", but any such discussion would take a chunk out of the time you have to kill whichever baddie you're going after.

No, in general the MMO community isn't noob friendly (and from what I've heard, JP servers tend to be not very non-JP friendly). But PF is there to find like-minded people. It has been said that if you join a PF listing, you're entering an agreement to follow the rules set up in said PF listing, and breaking those rules after that (by, for example, not having cleared the instance in particular) is grounds for reporting you for distruption of gameplay. Not to mention you're highly likely to get blacklisted by at least a couple of the other people in that party. Is that really worth the attempt to sneak in?

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Also, your character looks eerily similar to mine. o.o

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i think they a troll.. cuz i saw that too pretty much identical to the NTH degree (:P)

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Originally Posted by WingsOfNth

snipe

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Ok then, if you been playing MMO for 12 years, what mmo? what highest character? because nothing you stated is what realistically happen in any mmo. also whats a gmod?? XD Seems you are describing the more MUD style then actual MMo style. but really why hate on options? And i already had discussed the reason in my first post. People know why other want in, that was never a mystery.
It is trying to get them understand they are not currently welcome is the issue. ALSO ps3 players have to log out (if they don't own a pc) to access the lodestonec on ps3 browser and i can say with out a doubt it is CUMBERSOME to do. Lodestone/mobile is NOT ps3 browser friendly.

Also most gm i know do not answer player questions about stuff, tell you to see out the active help file or ask on the forums. And they sure as hell don't have deep long conversations with players.

None of what you suggested works, or is realistic. If it did Duty finder would never have been invented in mmo, and plauers would run stuff as free companies.

What mmo have you been playing prior to ff14 that made you think what you said was in anyway realistic??

No mmo i plaued (a good 30+ and willing to list most of them) was never like which you described.

There is nothing wrong with winterluna suggestion. And i'll be honest i'm a bit miffed you insultd them, for really no reason. Mostly because you come off like you talking outa your rear.

@ noxifer

Jp don't treat non-jp players any differently. I group wuth jp players often in DF and never once been kicked for being an English gamer. JP only doesn't mean japanese players only, it just means their lang. If you can speak/type japanese they are ok with you. And i run into just as many trolls, etc from the japanese community. Thge only difference is it isn't tolerated over here and they have a 3 wipe rule, and not all too nasty. And possible have a understanding that this is a community game meant for fun.