SP nerfed. We were lied to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

behest wasnt the best sp per hour, so your the one full of it

were you getting 30k+ per hour in behest? i dont think so
end of story

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If that's your experience, that's excellent. Glad you are pleased.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

I would gladly try anything that gives the same sp/hour behest did pre-patch. But guess what? It doesn't exist after the patch.

Behest wasn't nerfed? Behest was probably the biggest SP nerf of them all. If they put it the way it was it was they still nerfed from what it was in 1.17c. So Yoshi lied.

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Dude.. just fail...

Like 50+ People told you allready.

Behest NEVER WAS THE BEST WAY TO GET SP/HOUR.

REGULAR SP-PARTIES ALWAYS GAVE MORE AND STILL DO.

Are you typing while your eyes are closed or something?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

Have you tried every way to level since the patch? Have to done leves? Have you been in a grinding party for a few hours? Have you gone and done the quests in the cities that give a good bonus?

If you have not tried them on your own, not listening to everyone else, but trying on your own then you don't know if it exists.

I did feel bad for ya, but now it seems more like people are trying to help you (as rude as people are being) and you don't want to admit this far into the thread that maybe you do have other options. You keep using the same thing over and over as your big evidence that Yoshi lied: Behest

Well I'm sorry to say, but Behest =/= FFXIV, there is a whole other world out there.


Good luck. :(

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I have said so many times already that I can get SP. I can go and grind mobs. I know how to rank up. The issue is that it is far slower to rank up than it was pre-patch and that's fine except Yoshi made a letter saying it wouldn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abriael

"bwaaaaah they are disagreeing with me! I'm sad! I'm going to cry to mommy!"

Here's a direct translation of your post in picture form:
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.co...9493659604.jpg

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lol, i must say I enjoyed that. I am annoyed that some of you take the opposition side on this issue, because what I see is that you are compelled to do that even though the outcome of supporting Kensei would improve the quality of your own time. You don't believe me? If he succeeds and the dev team responds by increasing sp gained you can take some of that time set aside from grinding and do something challenging in the game. You really have nothing to gain long-term by opposing Kensei.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by odette

curiously ffxi fans defend party grind fest that leveling in two weeks is not mmo, well ffxi you can got 1 to lvl 90 in 2 days now

hard for made or search party find tank and healer class take a hours, people dont uses party finder so shout for hours is boring, people leave in half hour so
i prefer fatigue with old system that new system wher eyou kill enemies +8 level of you and give you 100 sp

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That is very curious, isn't it? FFXI fans defend the status quo blindly from what I've seen. They defend their investment in what they experienced. It's understandable, but the lack of growth beyond that is puzzling.

To all of you posting about behest - I think you're missing Kensei's point. It's not a true comparison if you compare earth hours rolling by. It would make more sense to compare an actual hour's time spent in behest to an hour spent grinding. That's the real issue, even if Kensei hasn't articulated it. Who wants to sit around grinding monsters for hours when you don't have to??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

In Letter from the Producer XIV Yoshi dedicated a section of it to discuss ranking up. I will quote parts of it.

Ever since I posted on the forums, we’ve been receiving feedback from players worrying about whether or not we’re going to be nerfing the ranking up process. The simple and emphatic answer to this, just as I posted in the forums, is no.

Well Yoshi it was nerfed in every single way. Killing mobs gives less SP, Behest gives less SP and it can't be done back to back, guildleves give far less SP per kill and the final bonus is pathetic. What the heck is the use of Guardians Favor? I was getting 83 SP per kill and it increased to maybe 89 SP with favor and the final bonus was unaffected. I tried for a while with a party and the best we were getting was 340 SP with mobs 10 ranks higher than us, the problem was that every 3 kills our CON needed an MP break because of the outrageous MP cost increases.

I don’t want there to be a huge loss of skill points imposed for dying, or for players to have to grind 5–6 hours a day for 8 months to get to the high ranks.

Well, Yoshi, with the current state of SP gains it may not be for 8 months but it will certainly take 6+ hours a day of mindless grinding to make progress a decent pace now from 30s onward.

I do think ranking up should take longer in MMOs than in non-MMOs, but I plan to make the process both possible and enjoyable for players willing to invest the time, even if they’re solo, and even by doing quests and guildleves.

Are you serious? You just nerfed SP gains which you said you wouldn't do, we are now forced to grind to make decent progress for hours which you also said you wouldn't do and I already discussed leves' pathetic excuse of SP. As for quests they would have been viable if there were more than 5 and it would be more enjoyable if a quest in Gridania didn't sent me to Coerthas and back for a grand total of 1,700 Skill Points. I could get much more grinding in the same amount of time it takes to make that walk.

Why was this done? Are you really thinking that slowing ranking up to a crawl will retain population? Because this sort of thing is exactly what made everyone quit. Considering the state the game was slowly recovering from I would think this was the last thing they would consider doing.

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The patch has been out for all of 2 days and you seem so certain that there is no good xp to be had anywhere in the game? Talk about some serious research on your part huh? Buddy, I just partied with some friends levels 36-41 at the Ixalia camp near halitali last night and was making 301-360 sp per kill. Do more homework before posting this kind of shit bud. They arent going to spoon feed you xp anymore, but its still out there to be had, your just gonna have to actually put a little effort forth now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

I know how to rank up.

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No. You dont know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

I have said so many times already that I can get SP. I can go and grind mobs. I know how to rank up. The issue is that it is far slower to rank up than it was pre-patch and that's fine except Yoshi made a letter saying it wouldn't.

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So basically you're mad because the one way you liked to rank, that you felt was the best is nerfed? Yoshi said that he would not hurt SP but it would be balanced. Yoshi also said that behest would be adjusted, just because he hurt your favorite way of leveling does not make him a liar. It just means that, unfortunately, you'll have to adjust to the new way of playing.

Also as I said this is one half of a two part fix... which is why I said it was a bit early to jump the gun and point fingers. I get how ya feel, but being pissed off a people who don't agree with ya and arguing back and forth isn't going to change that at the moment this is how the game is.

I'm gonna wait and see what happens, as I said I don't agree 100% with some of the changes but I'll see how it goes. Then in the end I'll adjust or I'll go, it's as simple as that. This isn't the first MMO created, and it won't be the last.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neptune

lol, i must say I enjoyed that. I am annoyed that some of you take the opposition side on this issue, because what I see is that you are compelled to do that even though the outcome of supporting Kensei would improve the quality of your own time. You don't believe me? If he succeeds and the dev team responds by increasing sp gained you can take some of that time set aside from grinding and do something challenging in the game. You really have nothing to gain long-term by opposing Kensei.



That is very curious, isn't it? FFXI fans defend the status quo blindly from what I've seen. They defend their investment in what they experienced. It's understandable, but the lack of growth beyond that is puzzling.

To all of you posting about behest - I think you're missing Kensei's point. It's not a true comparison if you compare earth hours rolling by. It would make more sense to compare an actual hour's time spent in behest to an hour spent grinding. That's the real issue, even if Kensei hasn't articulated it. Who wants to sit around grinding monsters for hours when you don't have to??

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You don't know how much it means to me that someone understands. Cheers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biggs

The patch has been out for all of 2 days aand you seem so certain that there is no good xp to be had anywhere in the game? Talk about some serious research on your part huh? Buddy, I just partied with some friend levels 36-41 at the Ixalia camp near halitali last night and was making 301-360 sp per kill. Do more homework before posting this kind of shit bud. They arent going to spoon feed you xp anymore, but its still out there to be had, your just gonna have to actually put a little effort forth now.

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I did mention that Beastmen camps would dish out 300+ sp ( said 400 but I was damn close) because I was getting 210 solo on my 47 Lancer.. so getting 350+ in a party at that rank range is awesome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Buddy, I just partied with some friends levels 36-41 at the Ixalia camp near halitali last night and was making 301-360 sp per kill.

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I saw that place today running, it looked like old school FFXI camp... set up get a puller and there is a ton of those mobs.

Would be ridiculous SP at 35 probably 50k/hr if spawns pop fast enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

If that's your experience, that's excellent. Glad you are pleased.

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The fact is that you LACK the experience to even discuss this. You didn't even do half of the leveling curve, and the half you did is the easiest.

The simple fact that you say that behest was the fastest way to level up shows that quite clearly. When you'll ever manage to get 35-40k xp/hour doing behest, come back and post.

Until then, please understand that you're wrongly accusing a developer of lying, which makes you the liar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

No, I'm upset that he said ranking up wouldn't be nerfed and it was. If it takes longer to rank up now than it did pre-patch the ranking up was nerfed.

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Not sure if you're aware of the fact that you're saying "i'm right because I say so!" :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

So basically you're mad because the one way you liked to rank, that you felt was the best is nerfed? Yoshi said that he would not hurt SP but it would be balanced. Yoshi also said that behest would be adjusted, just because he hurt your favorite way of leveling does not make him a liar. It just means that, unfortunately, you'll have to adjust to the new way of playing.

Also as I said this is one half of a two part fix... which is why I said it was a bit early to jump the gun and point fingers. I get how ya feel, but being pissed off a people who don't agree with ya and arguing back and forth isn't going to change that at the moment this is how the game is.

I'm gonna wait and see what happens, as I said I don't agree 100% with some of the changes but I'll see how it goes. Then in the end I'll adjust or I'll go, it's as simple as that. This isn't the first MMO created, and it won't be the last.

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No, I'm upset that he said ranking up wouldn't be nerfed and it was. If it takes longer to rank up now than it did pre-patch the ranking up was nerfed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

No, I'm upset that he said ranking up wouldn't be nerfed and it was. If it takes longer to rank up now than it did pre-patch the ranking up was nerfed.

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But you're looking at a half done patch... Yoshi said that between 1.18 and 1.19 SP would be a bit bad until the second half came in and the balancing was finished.

So one again, jumping the gun. If you read the letters its all there plain as day, that is why I am confused on how you can say SP is nerfed when it's not finished. If course things are a bit odd atm, it's not done.

He gave us all the info we needed, not my fault people don't see it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

No, I'm upset that he said ranking up wouldn't be nerfed and it was. If it takes longer to rank up now than it did pre-patch the ranking up was nerfed.

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Read that " Battle Refrom Blueprint" and you will that Battle system producer says there will be "Balancing of sp"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Read that " Battle Refrom Blueprint" and you will that Battle system producer says there will be "Balancing of sp"

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Yoshi said balancing a lot in the last few months, some just choose to ignore that fact because it doesn't help their argument. I don't know, I'm just adjusting along with the game and finding ways to have fun. I don't even really give a crap about the SP (well maybe on my crafter lol) as long as I am with my LS having a good time and finding enjoyment I'm all good.

A game is supposed to be enjoyed and that's how I play. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Read that " Battle Refrom Blueprint" and you will that Battle system producer says there will be "Balancing of sp"

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Yes but the implementation didn't work as Yoshi claimed. They mentioned balancing but in the letter Yoshi said ranking wouldn't be nerfed meaning that their changes would not affect rank progression. Ranking is slower now. That's all there is to it.

lol yay I'm done with this thread... this is obviously a case of different views lol.

I'm gonna go rank up and actually enjoy the game instead of having fun with ya'll at the moment! :D

Ya'll have fun here! Heehee ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

Ranking is slower now.

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No its not. How many more People you need to get the point? Should we gather all FFXIV Players here? Will you then tend to understand?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

Yes but the implementation did work as Yoshi claimed. They mentioned balancing but in the letter Yoshi said ranking wouldn't be nerfed meaning that their changes would not affect rank progression. Ranking is slower now. That's all there is to it.

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Nerf and Balancing aren't the same word Kensei

and it should be slower getting 120k sp is too high and needs Balancing which he said it would happen He said it wouldn't be nerfed true but he also said that it needs Balancing, One you nerf one thing, you buff another thus that is balancing This is how every MMO works

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

lol yay I'm done with this thread... this is obviously a case of different views lol.

I'm gonna go rank up and actually enjoy the game instead of having fun with ya'll at the moment! :D

Ya'll have fun here! Heehee ;)

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That's great. If you are pleased with the way SP gains are now then that's excellent and I am glad some have no problem with it. Have fun :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nero

No its not. How many more People you need to get the point? Should we gather all FFXIV Players here? Will you then tend to understand?

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If it isn't slower in your experience that's fantastic. Go enjoy it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Nerf and Balancing aren't the same word Kensei

and it should be slower getting 120k sp is too high and needs Balancing which he said it would happen He said it wouldn't be nerfed true but he also said that it needs Balancing, One you nerf one thing, you buff another thus that is balancing This is how every MMO works

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He says ranking up will not be nerfed but then when the patch comes it is far slower. If slowing ranking up is not a nerf I don't know what is.

just gonna say SE said they were going to make leve more toward solo players anyways so if your doing leve as a party and waiting on same sp as before you doing it wrong

Exhibit a

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Guildleves Reborn

Up until now, guildleves have been positioned as the heart of gameplay in FINAL FANTASY XIV. Going forward, however, guildleves will be reborn as solo-oriented content that can be enjoyed with minimal time and fuss. The changes will take place beginning with 1.18, and are scheduled to continue in future patches.

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and for the so called xp nerf Abriael said it right only reason u got that much was for exploits like dunesfolk x2 get like 40k + in leve

Exhibit b

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Regional Levequests

The skill point bonus will be abolished for battlecraft leves. The amount of skill points awarded for slaying individual enemies will be reduced, but this will be offset by the inclusion of skill points as a reward for leve completion. To accommodate this change, factors such as recommended/actual rank disparity, completion time, and partial participation will be made to influence the amount of points yielded. In addition, leve linking and sharing bonuses will be reduced, while the maximum number of linkable leves will be raised.

Certain regional leves and faction leves will receive revisions to areas such as enemy numbers, spawn condition, and target item drop rate. Enemy rank variance as determined by leve difficulty will also be adjusted.

Leves that send adventurers scrambling unreasonably long distances will be revamped. A system will also be implemented which enables leves to assign different routes when undertaken by multiple groups simultaneously.

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and if you want full story here u go

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...9a51563e165108

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

If it isn't slower in your experience that's fantastic. Go enjoy it.

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Its not experience only. Its just simple Math and a Fact. but anyway.. keep going in here.. i wont bother anymore to try telling you, that there always were and still are better ways to get fast SP.

bye

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amage

just gonna say SE said they were going to make leve more toward solo players anyways so if your doing leve as a party and waiting on same sp as before you doing it wrong

Exhibit a


and for the so called xp nerf Abriael said it right only reason u got that much was for exploits like dunesfolk x2 get like 40k + in leve

Exhibit b


and if you want full story here u go

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...9a51563e165108

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We all knew about the changes to leves. That's not the point. If they were planning some balancing and changes, great. But then if you post a letter saying ranking up won't be nerfed then I would assume you will provide means to achieve the same sp/hour now that was attainable before the patch. That isn't the case.

but its ment for solo ppl who dont have time to grind nor be on game long

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

We all knew about the changes to leves. That's not the point. If they were planning some balancing and changes, great. But then if you post a letter saying ranking up won't be nerfed then I would assume you will provide means to achieve the same sp/hour now that was attainable before the patch. That isn't the case.

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Straight to the point kensei.

It's simple, it made the leveling process much slower: 1 you get less exp, 2 you might have to stop and recover more than before, if you sum these up, you come out with weeks, maybe months more than before to hit 50 ( not that there are so many things to do at 50 )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

That's great. If you are pleased with the way SP gains are now then that's excellent and I am glad some have no problem with it. Have fun :)

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Eh it's not bad that the moment, just got done with a quest in game and got a 19k SP bonus for my Archer. Thought I'd come see how the thread was doing. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kensei

We all knew about the changes to leves. That's not the point. If they were planning some balancing and changes, great. But then if you post a letter saying ranking up won't be nerfed then I would assume you will provide means to achieve the same sp/hour now that was attainable before the patch. That isn't the case.

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There in lies the entire problem you assumed they would do something. However if you actually read crap which it appears you dont then you would know Yoshi stated in a letter he apologized for how bad SP was going to be after this update and that the next 2 updates 1.19 and 1.20 would resolve that issue. So rather then reading you along with the majority who want a single player MMO (Which BTW gets released in NOV 2011 its called Diablo III) still have yet to learn the WOWish factor will never fully play out how you want it to. This game is not 100% solo Nor will it ever be.

They gave you a crapton of ways to achieve SP the R48 Mission for storylines for example gives you 90k SP. All of the Solo Quests give you SP. All the mobs you kill in said quests give you SP And O yeah leves still give you SP. So what is the problem are you upset because it no longer gives 1k SP per kill? TUFF.

I am glad SE finally told the ppl who only want this game as solo to piss off. The Dungeons not casual, forcing groups for SP Yes Please. Maybe if you got off your keester and stopped expecting things handed to you on a silver platter you might actually accomplish something and figure out how this game should be played. Until then good luck and if you and the rest of these butt munchers who don't like the changes get butt hurt and quit, Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya on the way out...


ELKWOOD OUT!

Quote:

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≪Regional & Faction Leves≫

Skill points are now awarded upon levequest completion.
Additional points will be awarded for early completion of quest objectives.

* Skill point rewards will be reduced by changing classes during a levequest or completing a levequest as a class 10 or more ranks above the recommended level.
* Completing a regional levequest as any class other than those recommended will yield no skill points.
* The amount of skill points rewarded will differ between leve owner, and those leve sharing.

The skill point bonus for defeating levequest targets has been abolished.
Players must now be within 5 levels of the recommended class rank for a guildleve to become available.
Class-specific guildleves will only be made available to players who have met the rank requirements of the corresponding class.
Guildleve rewards have been adjusted to better reflect the characteristics of their city-state of issue.

* Rewards for levequests accepted before patch 1.18 will not change.

Changing levequest difficulty will now have a more profound effect on levequest target ranks.
The following changes have been made to select levequests:
Adjustments to levequest target types
Adjustments to levequest target spawn areas
Adjustments to levequest item drop rates
Adjustments to several guildleve-related system messages
Adjustments to the content of treasure chests that appear during levequests
Guardian's Aspect is now available for use during select faction levequests.
The following changes have been made to leve linking and leve sharing:
Skill point bonuses for defeating levequest targets have been abolished
Leve sharing players will receive a small skill point bonus for every player in their party who is leve linking
The maximum number of guildleves that can be linked has been raised from 3 to 7

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It clearly states on the patch notes that there have been major changes to the Leve reward system.

If you are having issues with your exp then it may be a case that a member of your party is at a different evel than recommended. This will greatly effect the SP if they're either too high or too low. Of course, that's just one factor of many which can result in low SP.

The bottom line is, at no point has the dev team "lied" to anyone. They never said they would "nerf" leves in the statement the OP has shown, just that they will not "nerf" sp in general. There are much larger rewards for side quests AND more sidequests. Not to mention, the extra dungeons and the companies. Already there are many more SP's up for grabs, which are different from the Leve system.

Mikito x

Perhaps you could look at it this way. The SP on average over multiple methods of gaining was balanced. At the same time, an exploit was fixed. If you were not exploiting, there was no nerfing. If you were exploiting, it was nerfed. I do believe that balancing will continue until we are at a point that is reasonable. Not everyone will agree on what is a nerf and what is a exploit-fix, but in the end some people will have to take more than 24 hours before they come up with a method that allows for maximum SP gain. It's entirely possible that there is simply a new method that you haven't figured out yet. But you made this thread at 12:50am this morning, which I believe is almost exactly 24 hours after the changes. I think it's impossible to try every possible method of gaining SP using every possible variation of level variance, group quantity, battle tactics etc. in that short a time to establish that it is a 100% positive nerf, especially if you've spent a large amount of that time making "Kensei mad!" posts in this thread. :)

Just go have another shot, see if you can come up with new methods, try new things, see how it all works out. And remember, in the end, the race is long, and it was this long race that Yoshi was talking of when he spoke of nerfing. He never said "in this specific patch we will not downgrade the amount of SP you can gain". He said he won't - over the complete time of development to the point that he is happy with where the game is at - nerf the ranking up process. So, give it time, be patient. If you are unable to do that, perhaps you should look elsewhere for a little while and come back in maybe a month or two. I hope you find enjoyment in the game by then, and I hope that enjoyment will not be dictated by the speed of your SP gains but by the amount of fun you have while developing your character and socialising. All the best, Kensei, although I do feel you are perhaps a little more angsty than you might think and perhaps you should just relax and see how things play out.

In short: The race is long, keep having a go and if you can't be happy with things as they stand, maybe come back after next patch and have another shot. It's cool, man, you and I both can do other things in this world if the game isn't ready for us yet. :)

I didn't see yoshi say "Solo SP will suck after the next update" he said "Ever since I posted on the forums, we’ve been receiving feedback from players worrying about whether or not we’re going to be nerfing the ranking up process. The simple and emphatic answer to this, just as I posted in the forums, is no. "

I don't know how you can look at that quote and claim yoshi didn't promise not to nerf SP.

So I'll be completely blunt about what I have found in the current situation. Before 1.18 the easiest way for me to level a level 20 character was by doing solo leves and behest. This was not using any sort of cheat, trick, or glitch. I simply would do a behest, wait 10 minutes, and do another one. With the amount of xp I earned I leveled pug 20 to 25 in about 8 hours. This was because behest gave an average of about 9-10k experience per run. Leves gave a similar amount of xp when soloing them with enemies 5-10 levels over my rank. Then the patch came. I am honestly quite pleased with many of the changes, and while I might not like the healing mp increase I can deal with that. On the other hand, I grabbed 3 leves and went to go do behest. behest now gives about 3k xp, as do the leves. this is actually about the same as if I simply was grinding on mobs, and is about 3 times slower than before. So whereas before the 4 hours I sent would have gotten me to about level 23, I'm sitting here at level 21 wondering what happened to all my sp. So please, enough with the random bullshit about how much sp you can earn if you do the leves the right way, or party correctly. Players should not need to figure out the secret of the game just to get decent experience.

And while I agree that the concept of moving the bonuses to the end of leves and behest is a good idea, the simple fact is that the sum of xp earned during a leve or behest is not equal to the that of a leve or behest before the patch. If SE simply balanced that then I would have no issues with the changes that were made.

For a simple breakdown

Pre-1.18
10 mobs/leve, 720sp per mob = 7200sp/leve
20 mobs/behest, 400sp/mob = 8000sp/behest

sp gained from 3 leves: 21600sp
sp/hour from behest: 16000sp

Post-1.18
10 mobs/leve, 200sp per mob + 2k bonus = 4000sp/leve
20 mobs/behest, 200sp/mob + 1k bonus = 5000sp/leve, + behest can only be done every other time.

sp gained from 3 leves: 12000sp
sp/hr from behest: 5000sp

so all in all, I gain sp at a rate about 2-3 times slower than before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aldarin

So I'll be completely blunt about what I have found in the current situation. Before 1.18 the easiest way for me to level a level 20 character was by doing solo leves and behest. This was not using any sort of cheat, trick, or glitch. I simply would do a behest, wait 10 minutes, and do another one. With the amount of xp I earned I leveled pug 20 to 25 in about 8 hours. This was because behest gave an average of about 9-10k experience per run. Leves gave a similar amount of xp when soloing them with enemies 5-10 levels over my rank. Then the patch came. I am honestly quite pleased with many of the changes, and while I might not like the healing mp increase I can deal with that. On the other hand, I grabbed 3 leves and went to go do behest. behest now gives about 3k xp, as do the leves. this is actually about the same as if I simply was grinding on mobs, and is about 3 times slower than before. So whereas before the 4 hours I sent would have gotten me to about level 23, I'm sitting here at level 21 wondering what happened to all my sp. So please, enough with the random bullshit about how much sp you can earn if you do the leves the right way, or party correctly. Players should not need to figure out the secret of the game just to get decent experience.

And while I agree that the concept of moving the bonuses to the end of leves and behest is a good idea, the simple fact is that the sum of xp earned during a leve or behest is not equal to the that of a leve or behest before the patch. If SE simply balanced that then I would have no issues with the changes that were made.

For a simple breakdown

Pre-1.18
10 mobs/leve, 720sp per mob = 7200sp/leve
20 mobs/behest, 400sp/mob = 8000sp/behest

sp gained from 3 leves: 21600sp
sp/hour from behest: 16000sp

Post-1.18
10 mobs/leve, 200sp per mob + 2k bonus = 4000sp/leve
20 mobs/behest, 200sp/mob + 1k bonus = 5000sp/leve, + behest can only be done every other time.

sp gained from 3 leves: 12000sp
sp/hr from behest: 5000sp

so all in all, I gain sp at a rate about 2-3 times slower than before.

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Thank you for posting that. I don't know how these people saying they are ranking up the same or faster are getting their SP. The nerf is undeniable.

Aldarin, have you considered raids/quest SP increases? Have you considered also that you could gain SP faster in different kinds of groups? I imagine solo content was always going to end up a little slower... although for me, at a lower level and duo-ing battles, it's not bad compared to before.

For me, I've not really got too deep with the leveling speeds over the past months, and I've played sporadically. I'm not a huge person on knowing the ins and outs of it all, that's for sure. I usually play with my girlfriend and that's about it, as many of my mates are waiting for PS3 release. But either way, my thoughts on the matter are that I'm having more fun playing than I ever have despite not being sure if I'm gaining more or less SP. The quests giving SP mean I have a more immersive experience, the storyline development in the entire world makes it feel much more like we're in a battle and I have time to talk while battling, allowing for better social aspects - although as my gf sits next to me perhaps that's not a huge change for now, but when we eventually play in groups, I'm sure it will be!

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Originally Posted by Kensei

Thank you for posting that. I don't know how these people saying they are ranking up the same or faster are getting their SP. The nerf is undeniable.

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i think one factor is people who say they are getting large bonuses at the end, are doing so on higher end leves only. so leves at 33+ may theoretically be a little better, from what i heard about behest, it is lower except possibly compared to how much you get when you are very over level.


Yes he lied, they did nerf sp, maybe they plan to change it later, but truth is, they probably wanted to lower sp, and thats why they did it. He assumes most people wont notice, or care, and since many people who came back have no frame of reference, they may never realize.

But lets be honest he knew it was going to nerf gains, just the mp change alone would slow down small groups sp gains on leves of 10 higher difficulty. This is somewhere around the new balance of SP gaining they want to people to have. If you have beef, i reccomend you complain as you are, so that they may choose to adjust it upwards while they are in the balancing phase, however my feeling is this will end up not being the case

Maybe duoing isn't as bad with downtime between mobs as soloing is? Cause soloing sucks atm, and while no soloer expects to be getting SP as fast as people in parties (or no rational soloer) it should be rewarding enough that people don't just say "f this" and quit.

Especially since so much of the playerbase is shut up in super exclusive LS that are not interested in helping players outside their group - (to a much larger extent than XI ever experienced) and because so many people quit, a lot of people, (like me) log in to an empty/broken LS and maybe solo a bit here and there.

If this game is going to grow you have to give people a decent way of participating in it, even before they can get into a "gated community" LS and have people to party with. People that say "why don't you party" while only partying with their LS mates need to take a long hard look at themselves for the answer to why we aren't partying.

Also, some people just like the freedom to solo a bit. Partying requires a large chunk of time and for people who say, have a small child at home and stuff to do, it is good to be able to do some stuff alone

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Originally Posted by Loony_BoB

Aldarin, have you considered raids/quest SP increases? Have you considered also that you could gain SP faster in different kinds of groups? I imagine solo content was always going to end up a little slower... although for me, at a lower level and duo-ing battles, it's not bad compared to before.

For me, I've not really got too deep with the leveling speeds over the past months, and I've played sporadically. I'm not a huge person on knowing the ins and outs of it all, that's for sure. I usually play with my girlfriend and that's about it, as many of my mates are waiting for PS3 release. But either way, my thoughts on the matter are that I'm having more fun playing than I ever have despite not being sure if I'm gaining more or less SP. The quests giving SP mean I have a more immersive experience, the storyline development in the entire world makes it feel much more like we're in a battle and I have time to talk while battling, allowing for better social aspects - although as my gf sits next to me perhaps that's not a huge change for now, but when we eventually play in groups, I'm sure it will be!

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quest sp is not good, time wise, its an interesting side thing to do, now that you actually get sp, but 90% of the quests reward amounts are not going to balance out the travel time. Its fine as a thing that gives you little bonus SP and breaks the monotony, but its not a main form of progression, and is not repeatable, it can only be applied once, and there are 7 jobs

i didnt have anyone to group with so i solod 2 leves at broken water at 2 stars each (three stars got me murdered) on my THM, did both in about 45 mins and got about 1.5k SP
thats marginally worse than before the patch.
should it have been nerfed? sure, itll promote grouping. but in my experience so far soloing leves for levels (which is what i did for about 10 of them post rank 25) is pretty much impossible now.
now in order to gain any actual levels grouping seems to be 100% required.
the search feature is not very user friendly, the community is miles away form what it could be and the populations still dont compare to any other game making it that much harder to find a decent group.

i officially call this era of FFXIV the "Thanalan dust bowl era" where we have more modes of messed up targeting than we do ways to level.

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

I didn't see yoshi say "Solo SP will suck after the next update"

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And in fact it didn't happen. What happens is that ONE method of gaining SP has been rebalanced, adn some mouthy newbie is falsely accusing a developer of lying because that ONE method happens to be his favourite.

Which of coure is completely illogical.