8.0 rework will be a joke

Well. The reworks are 3 years away give or take. And if youve instantly declared them a failure then what are Devs meant to do? They've already spoken about how the community bullying is demotivating them in every way, I can source if needed. And things like this are what he meant. People forget these Devs are not machines but creative and talented artists and writers. We should be encouraging them not putting them down from even trying. If you were one of this games devs and u saw posts like these DAILY how exactly would u feel?

I'm an artist and cosplayer and sometimes when I was making my cosplays or drawing my art and I read nasty comments online about how bad it'd be when done I'd also loose motivation. We all have a role in this.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Well. The reworks are 3 years away give or take. And if youve instantly declared them a failure then what are Devs meant to do? They've already spoken about how the community bullying is demotivating them in every way, I can source if needed. And things like this are what he meant. People forget these Devs are not machines but creative and talented artists and writers. We should be encouraging them not putting them down from even trying. If you were one of this games devs and u saw posts like these DAILY how exactly would u feel?

I'm an artist and cosplayer and sometimes when I was making my cosplays or drawing my art and I read nasty comments online about how bad it'd be when done I'd also loose motivation. We all have a role in this.

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If the devs want praise then they need to something actually worthy of praise, the reason people have no faith in them is because they have given us nothing to have faith in. Like they were already discussing “8.0 is the expansion when all the jobs get good again” while we were looking at actions for 7.0 only for 7.0 job design to basically be universally worse than 6.0 job design and people have been complaining about 6.0 job design since 5.0 at this point and you certain classes. It doesn’t really fill you with confidence

I’ll give praise if they actually do something worth praising (PCT for example is the best launch class this game has ever made and you will not hear me struggling to praise it), right now their net job design is not something worth praising or even “pity encouraging”

Who cares about the feelings of the developers? They're not your friends. This is a transactional relationship. You're paying to play a game they produce. If they serve you trash, you aren't gonna pat their backs and say "Way to go!". The customer is always right in matters of taste. When the food tastes like shit, we're going to complain. The reality is the backlash they're facing could EASILY BE AVOIDED if Yoshi P put out a statement saying "Yes, we're aware Dawntrail has not lived up to expectations. Moving forward, here is our plan;" I don't see that statement anywhere. Nor do I see them taking issue with any aspect of Dawntrail so far. I think the team behind this game has convinced themselves that this is 100% normal and nothing is wrong. I easily can say that nothing will change in 8.0, and I seriously doubt they're getting upset over forum posts they haven't been reading or responding to in 5 years.

What about my feelings on their product? They simplified Viper as soon as it came out, that's not encouraging at all. There is 0 indication of who they're listening to or what their plan is, and the time to collect feedback is now.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Well. The reworks are 3 years away give or take. And if youve instantly declared them a failure then what are Devs meant to do? They've already spoken about how the community bullying is demotivating them in every way, I can source if needed. And things like this are what he meant. People forget these Devs are not machines but creative and talented artists and writers. We should be encouraging them not putting them down from even trying. If you were one of this games devs and u saw posts like these DAILY how exactly would u feel?

I'm an artist and cosplayer and sometimes when I was making my cosplays or drawing my art and I read nasty comments online about how bad it'd be when done I'd also loose motivation. We all have a role in this.

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You're confusing the devs speaking out against bullying and the devs unwiling to face valid criticism.
When I worked in the industry, I was actually happy to see players raise concerns or critiques, and most of the time agreed with them because the actual common enemy was higher ups, usually all powerful divas (creative directors or art directors) that were too stuck up their *** to even admit that they either could be wrong, or would have to change their tune.
There is no excuse to be offensive to the devs and going into full ad personam, but constructive criticism is fuel to novelty and creativity and I'll die on that hill.

The devs also do something great that is regular liveletters, but they do not use those liveletters to do anything beyond building commercial hype (at the cost of a lot of spoilers, often). Instead of using those, you know, to actually discuss the hot topics, lay out their plans and talk about the hard things that need to be addressed.
They don't talk to us, they mostly advertise to us. It's like they're too scared of being told that something they're working on is bad, that they're above all too afraid to get involved into debates and take stances, and instead we're always presented with done deals.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Well. The reworks are 3 years away give or take. And if youve instantly declared them a failure then what are Devs meant to do? They've already spoken about how the community bullying is demotivating them in every way, I can source if needed. And things like this are what he meant. People forget these Devs are not machines but creative and talented artists and writers. We should be encouraging them not putting them down from even trying. If you were one of this games devs and u saw posts like these DAILY how exactly would u feel?

I'm an artist and cosplayer and sometimes when I was making my cosplays or drawing my art and I read nasty comments online about how bad it'd be when done I'd also loose motivation. We all have a role in this.

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They've been declared as a failure due to their pretty high consistency of making choices that a lot of people don't agree with, in combination with their incessant gutting of systems. People need to realize what they say they will do, and what they are going to do in actuality are 2 entirely different things.

It's well and good coming in with the "Let's cut some slack", but I do posit the question... Have they actually been trying, or have they just been sticking to a rote formula because it works? They are more concerned with sticking to a near decade old formula, than what they are with delivering a good product, and it shows.

I'm happy with encouraging as much as the next guy, but people have been encouraging them to try something new, to try something better, long long before I was even active on these forums, and long before I saw issues myself. How long should people be encouraging them for before we realize it is a fruitless endeavor? 2 years? 3 years? 5 years? 8 years?

Besides, in your own words I am pretty sure you yourself have said in the past that everything in the game feels "lazy, half-baked, half-hearted and unfinished"...

So let me ask you, why should people expect otherwise? lol

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Well. The reworks are 3 years away give or take. And if youve instantly declared them a failure then what are Devs meant to do? They've already spoken about how the community bullying is demotivating them in every way, I can source if needed. And things like this are what he meant. People forget these Devs are not machines but creative and talented artists and writers. We should be encouraging them not putting them down from even trying. If you were one of this games devs and u saw posts like these DAILY how exactly would u feel?

I'm an artist and cosplayer and sometimes when I was making my cosplays or drawing my art and I read nasty comments online about how bad it'd be when done I'd also loose motivation. We all have a role in this.

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Imagine choosing game developer as a career and being sensitive to internet posts, to the point of refusing to work.

Even if this post isn't serious, the fact that Yoshi-P considered to stop releasing Ultimates, due to some people using mods, makes me think some people really find this true.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Well. The reworks are 3 years away give or take. And if youve instantly declared them a failure then what are Devs meant to do? They've already spoken about how the community bullying is demotivating them in every way, I can source if needed. And things like this are what he meant. People forget these Devs are not machines but creative and talented artists and writers. We should be encouraging them not putting them down from even trying. If you were one of this games devs and u saw posts like these DAILY how exactly would u feel?

I'm an artist and cosplayer and sometimes when I was making my cosplays or drawing my art and I read nasty comments online about how bad it'd be when done I'd also loose motivation. We all have a role in this.

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The ff14 player needs to spend $40 every expansion and $13 a month on the sub and who knows how much on mog station so that they can get the privilege of praising the developer team

IGN's Interview with Yoshi-P at Brasil Game Show tackles 2 mins meta

Yoshida: " "That's a difficult question," begins Yoshi-P. "We have skill rotations varying between 60 and 120 seconds for the most intense phases and that's how it works currently. But the reason it's like this today is that we've received, in the past, feedback from all over the world saying that the timing of fights were difficult, it was difficult to align skills between classes, we were asked to unify everything, and precisely because we received these requests to homogenize this, we homogenized it"."

In fact, in past expansions like Heavensward and Stormblood the design of fights and classes were very different from how it is today. Just look at classes that have completely changed from their original versions, like Summoner, Astrologian, Bard, and Machinist. Furthermore, the design of the bosses and the arenas in which fights take place were different, which created different situations - and functions - between melee and ranged classes. There are those who say that having the game less "on track" is more fun - and Yoshi-P is not against this idea, but there is a balance that needs to be discussed.

Although hardcore players make up the majority of those who complain about how FF14's combat has become homogenized over the years, there is a significant portion of players, who we can consider as intermediates, who may not dedicate themselves to the more difficult encounters as diligently, but who do want to challenge themselves to overcome the game's most difficult fights and engage more frequently with the combat system than others who really stick more to the non-combat options offered by the MMO.

Yoshida: "We're okay with making things a little crazy and having different timings between all the classes, but again, we made these changes because we got feedback that it was too difficult before. We understand that there are two types of players, so going forward, Regardless of whether we change this or not, the community needs to reach a consensus: what is better? Before changing something we need to get feedback from everyone", concludes Yoshi-P, reiterating that feedback through official means is taken into account by the developer.

And from this the question arises: how much should Square Enix listen to the hardcore portion of players, who engage immediately and frequently with the most difficult content that FF14 proposes, seeking to optimize each and every possible movement, in relation to the average and casual player. Who also likes combat? It definitely doesn't sound like an easy task.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

If they want to bring back identity (with balanced jobs) they need to make 15-20 "new jobs" (considering they already have an idea (data + 2.0 - 3.0 jobs)), also I think the game netcode/current pve structure (2mn meta for instance) is a problem

Im 80% sure that the 8.0 rework will be underwhelming, I hope im wrong but I dont have any faith in SE

what do you guys think ?

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want my honest opinion? i think SE is primed to make the same screw up WoW made but it have far worse consequences and im not talking the WOTLK downfall oh players are back copium argument thats been going on for god knows how long at this point.

PvP is both balanced and unbalanced IE - this class feels really good overall but this one is broken and other classes "yeah, just don't touch this one for pvp unless its CC"

the way pvp is set up and how everythings equalized if they do it right they could balance it fairly well and maintain job identity, but ive only ever seen 2 games make pvp balanced and those games died, a lot of people want balance but when you get it, it becomes skill based and more people are likely to leave.

for PvE - honestly i don't even know where to begin like we have DPS classes capable of soloing bosses from 50% or so hp in some extraordinary cases

but as for levels/content etc... i believe their close to making the same blunder WoW did.

WoW and XIVs stat scaling is somewhat similar to eachother, XI imo has the superior stat scaling for LONG TERM GAMEUPDATES.

the type of scaling WoW has imo is better suited for SINGLE PLAYER TITLES

but oh wait thats the thing XIV is basically a single player game with online functions...

and if you know what happened with wow after passing level 100 was around level 120 or 130 they had to do a level squish back to like 60 or something which kinda borked their games entire storyline and overworld content in a way

EDIT: TL;DR i see SE making the same screw up WoW did within the next 1-3 expansions

EDIT: oh right and you hate slogging through quests that GIVE exp? (ik these players exist) if they decide to level cap at 100 the last MSQ to ever give exp will be in dawntrail