Pulling why?

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Originally Posted by Manamaru

Because at least for some certain veteran players, if duty roulette didn't offer any incentivizing rewards to do said content, they would rather not have anything to do with any of the newer players and would rather only run the newest/current content. But apparently the idea of you or someone asking if they're unsure about doing something different is so infuriating that they take the next couple of posts to keep referencing it like communicating salted their fields, burned their crops, and set a plague unto their house.

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I'm not even suggesting people do anything different or change their playstyle in dungeons. I just find it weird that even the idea of asking a question to party members seems to get met with this contempt that I only hope they don't actually express to people in the moment because of how much of a non-issue it is. It's what I meant when I said it's disheartening to see. It just about wraps back around into being it's own brand of toxic casualism.

I think you're missing the point. You can type whatever you want as you're loading in. I've seen plenty of 'First time here, anything I should know?' from tanks. From my experience, people are supportive and happy to help out in these cases. I've equally seen casual banter on loading in that sets the tone for a more conversational run. But to suggest that a strategy meeting at the start of a dungeon is at all standard is ridiculous.

Part of socializing is being able to read the room. People in a dungeon are generally looking to get in and out. Dungeon Roulettes are this game's equivalent of a quick match, for people who don't have a lot of time on their hands but want to dip in and out quickly without controversy. Some people will be in the mood for banter, others will not.

Part of socializing is also being able to communicate non-verbally. This is actually an essential skill in harder content because you have to be able to read someone's intentions from how they move around a resolving mechanic. You know those situations where two people can't decide who is going to what safe spot, resulting them both moving to the same spot multiple times before wiping? Entirely dependent on your non-verbals.

Again, if you understand how to communicate effectively, all of this is a non-issue.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I think you're missing the point. You can type whatever you want as you're loading in. I've seen plenty of 'First time here, anything I should know?' from tanks. From my experience, people are supportive and happy to help out in these cases. I've equally seen casual banter on loading in that sets the tone for a more conversational run. But to suggest that a strategy meeting at the start of a dungeon is at all standard is ridiculous.

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Which I didn't do. In fact, the thing I initially pointed out was weird it is to act as if asking a question out of courtesy at the start of a dungeon was equivalent to a time-wasting group huddle, which is a weird notion to try to push. Like you said, non-issue. I feel like I'm just repeating myself.

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

Which I didn't do. In fact, the thing I initially pointed out was weird it is to act as if asking a question out of courtesy at the start of a dungeon was equivalent to a time-wasting group huddle, which is a weird notion to try to push. Like you said, non-issue. I feel like I'm just repeating myself.

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That's literally what people are suggesting. And it's not necessary or wanted. There's no need to communicate in text what will already be communicated through gameplay.

No one needs to ask permission to W2W pull, and most people will find you difficult if you demand everyone to sign up for basic strategy, because you are afraid you'll be held responsible unless you preemptively spread the blame or whatever the actual point of that behavior actually is.

There is absolutely no reason to be single pulling once you're 60+ and that's being generous. I say 60 because you've now had two whole xpacs of content to familiarize yourself with your class, you're not "new" anymore. If you're 60+ talkin bout some "I'm not comfy pulling wall to wall" then that's just laziness. Being first time in a dungeon doesn't matter since it's all the same thing and not like they're mazes save for what? Four dungeons post HW that you can actually "overpull" on (an I use that term loosely). Tanks do the exact same thing whether they're fighting three mobs or 300. At the bare minimum they press four buttons... Two of which are spammed, one a gauge spender, final one is a mit. This is the bare minimum, nothing optimized. If you can single pull you can full pull. IF someone isn't comfy pressing four buttons then it's ok... Tanking isn't for everyone.

Before anyone whines BuT lEvEl SkIp or GnB sTaRtS aT 60... It is the persons job to carry their weight, that means knowing the basics of their class to perform in a TEAM environment. A tanks role is to tank dmg that would otherwise be fatal to others. Single pulls are not fatal, at that point you're just taking up a DPS slot.

For any newer players seeing this that are scared to cause a wipe... It is ok to wipe once or twice. People would rather see you at least try rather than just sit there saying "I can't do it." Don't fall for the fake nice people spewing nonsense, the toxic casuals in the community have a crabs in the bucket mentality where they're bad and hate to see anyone else trying to improve.

At the end of it all, it comes down to respecting peoples time (if you wipe once or twice then slow down but are actively trying to improve I guarantee most people will be a lot more receptive than if one just tries to force a snail run). Carry your weight or again just put forth an effort. Don't make a 9-15 min run take 30+ out of laziness, entitlement, and/or selfishness.

I have zero sympathy for people who start high level classes in the dungeon that they could first access at the level they unlock the class then have no idea what is going on

brand new SGE’s queuing into holminster when they have barely placed their buttons on the hotbars then expect the party to be endlessly patient with them is just selfish

If you are queuing into a level 70 dungeon then level 70 competence should be expected, even if the class starts at 70

People pull wall to wall to clear the dungeon more quickly. Unless your gear or healer are awful, it's best practice.

If you start dying, single pull.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I have zero sympathy for people who start high level classes in the dungeon that they could first access at the level they unlock the class then have no idea what is going on

brand new SGE’s queuing into holminster when they have barely placed their buttons on the hotbars then expect the party to be endlessly patient with them is just selfish

If you are queuing into a level 70 dungeon then level 70 competence should be expected, even if the class starts at 70

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ooh ooh I got to experience this during early EW, when I make the mistake of queuing for Great Hunt EX and the healers were both new SGEs using it to "practice" (which, uh, the second phase stops all healing anyway?) and got pissy when the rest of us were like "please god stick to the mechs".

Ultimately the decision falls on the healer. If the healer feels like they can take on more adds then they depict the pace. DPS should never depict the pace unless things are melting so fast that the tank is taking next to 0 damage which is rarely the case.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Ultimately the decision falls on the healer. If the healer feels like they can take on more adds then they depict the pace. DPS should never depict the pace unless things are melting so fast that the tank is taking next to 0 damage which is rarely the case.

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Not quite, it is actually a combined Tank-Healer decision, with the default being "try as much as possible and go from there". An inexperienced tank or healer can both reach a critical level of being unable to sustain the pull, usually due to lack of player experience and making the most out of their cooldowns, while a veteran tank or healer can make up for that with incredible resource and cooldown control.

This is of course assuming the DPS players are actually not grossly underperforming and making pulls last too long.