Get rid of SAM Limit break gimmick already (FL)

'Yoshi didn't make all jobs equal, but Zantetsuken did.'

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Originally Posted by Naizakane

Pretty sure the solution was figured out 5 months ago, when people realised you could just not hit the samurai during chiten.

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Not surprising that stupid answer like this is coming from SAM main...

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Originally Posted by Silhart

but I will say if they turned Zantetsuken into straight damage, I think that would be a huge buff over what we have now. Hear me out - depending on how much they increased its damage to make up for the loss of its OHKO, they would essentially be turning it into a second Skyshatter Dive that has the advantage of being both untelegraphed and unblockable. Under the right conditions (see: a DRK who knows what they're doing), team wipes with Zantetsuken would be more frequent, and I think that would make people complain even more than they do now. It would essentially go from being a punishing LB with reasonable counterplay to a teamwipe LB with zero counterplay. I've seen people suggest this change before, and all I can say is they should be careful what they wish for.

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You are saying it like this is the only way how to change this... from bad to even worse...

Just don't hit the Samurai with Chiten?
God, would the community stop trying to make the PvP soulless and unfun? Already nerfed casters and Paladin to the ground.

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Originally Posted by Yukimin

Just don't hit the Samurai with Chiten?
God, would the community stop trying to make the PvP soulless and unfun? Already nerfed casters and Paladin to the ground.

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The only limit break I want nerfed is ninjas resetting instakill if you are below 50%. That is obnoxious as heck. No real skill involved in it either other than "wait" Least thats how it seems to me.

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Originally Posted by Yukimin

Just don't hit the Samurai with Chiten?
God, would the community stop trying to make the PvP soulless and unfun? Already nerfed casters and Paladin to the ground.

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I think the issue is more that most people aren't targeting the Samurai, but the samurai is being clipped by an AOE.

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Originally Posted by Yukimin

Just don't hit the Samurai with Chiten?
God, would the community stop trying to make the PvP soulless and unfun? Already nerfed casters and Paladin to the ground.

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Tell that my RDM nerf after nerf after nerf... >_>

They could have base Zantetsuken do 30k. Zantetsuken with chiten debuff do 60k with 30k up front, and another 30k bleed over 4 seconds. (15k per tick)

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

I think the issue is more that most people aren't targeting the Samurai, but the samurai is being clipped by an AOE.

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The problem is that you have to pair lb with a trash skill many people can avoid, sam lb needs a change both for cc and frontlines, its garbage

Rarely does a PvP system provide players with a guaranteed 1 button kill mechanic. When a mechanic like this exists, it always requires very specific conditions that usually require finesse to pull off reliably. Chiten is not that. At best, 1 v 1, Chiten could be seen as requiring finesse to trick an opponent into triggering Chiten for Kuzushi. Once a second combatant and AoEs get involved, all finesse disappears and it's as easy as simple standing near your opponent.

Further discussion of a 1 button kill mechanic usually leads to the expectation that if it fails to connect, it's has a greatly diminished effect. For example, looking to the closest analogy in FFXIV, a NIN's Seiton Tenchu does a miserable 10k dmg and is affected by guard, if it fails to hit someone below 50% health, while making the NIN vulnerable for 2 - 3 seconds. Suitable punishment for missing your kill opportunity. Zantetsuken hits for 24k, ignores guard, and is an AoE... if it fails to kill outright.

Which leads to the final point, I have NEVER seen a PvP system provide a 1 button kill mechanic that is an AoE. I don't even have an avenue to discuss this point.

Please, either remove the 1 button kill mechanic and simply increase the dmg when hitting someone with Kuzushi, or remove the AoE component of it, or remove the ability to trigger Kuzushi through AoE abilities. Any one of those changes would maintain a strong LB while getting rid of the detrimental impact SAM LB has on PvP.

Before I go, I'll leave a brief conversation I had with my friend who plays SAM that greatly illustrates the point. My friend was teaching me to play SAM and while covering the LB, this is what he said... roughly. He said, "When using Zantetsuken, make sure you hit as many players as you can. Like, if you only get one kill, you should feel like you've wasted the LB. Maximize the effect by drawing in tanks and AoE casters before triggering Chiten. Just get up close, trigger Purify, and get hit with everything you can by getting right in a teams face. If you do it right, you should be able to get 2, 3, or more kills."

That was when I realized how silly Zantetsuken is. There isn't a combo you need to perform. There isn't teamwork that's required. There isn't an intricate dance you perform to pull it off. It's simply kick in the door and see how many players twitch. The only defense is to not fight back while the Samurai is attacking your team, which is even more powerful than the LB itself. The ability to threaten an entire team by just standing in combat... reducing their DPS in anticipation of your activation of Chiten, stopping their AoEs, and unbalancing their rotations.

The FEAR that a SAM will trigger Chiten, giving you Kuzushi, and then killing everyone that receives the debuff, makes Zantetsuken even MORE powerful than a 1 button AoE kill. In the right hands, this one class controls PvP.