Prepare to have your mind blown

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Originally Posted by Alerith

From what I understood about the Echo, it shows the past and you can interact with that past, but no matter what you do, it doesn't actually CHANGE anything in the present.

I remember several times where I've interacted with people and events in an Echo to find out more information, but my character wasn't actually THERE when it happened, so the interactions couldn't have actually happened and is simply the altering of the Echo.

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In one cutscene for a class quest (can't remember which one) you get seen while using the Echo, and when you come back to the present day the person you were watching (and saw you) remembers you from it, so therefore it must actually happen, or you are implanted in the persons memory. I would suggest you don't try to think on the temoral paradoxes too much, it gets rather painful.

But it is possible that the twelve use the echo to contact the path of the twelve and tell us how to survive Dalamud, possibly using the echo, and with the guidance of the twelve we can save life on Eorzea while scaring the planet.

I think adding the twelve telling us how to survive will be a cool idea, also lets go back to the starting cutscenes, the voice you hear that says "Hear, Think, Feel" has it been said who that was, was it something to do with the echo?

If it hasn't been said, what if its one of the twelve using our dormant Echo to contact us, to see if its possible before this came in preperation to help us, That one just came to me.

The easiest way to explain the change from 1.2x to 2.0, including all of the things discussed about Dalmud, changes to the environment, cities, races, etc is this:

WE FAIL TO STOP IT.

Everything we are doing is via the Echo. 2.0 is our reality and we are looking back at how things came to be. This allows for SE to do/change anything yet still keep a sense of "reality".

So...are we using the Echo from 2.0 to go back in time and try to avert the fall of Dalamud? Beating Ifrit, stopping the Moogles, everything we've done to this point...was it all just us reliving the events through the eyes of the Twelve?

Were you ever REALLY in the Bowl of Embers? Did you really slay that NM? WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN!?

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Originally Posted by Inzoum

Actually, there's a 4th option:

Screw the story, let's just blow up the world so Version 1 ends, and Version 2.0 starts fresh as if nothing ever happened, like a new game, but where you get a head start with quests done and levels and whatnot if you've played Version 1.

Personally, I think it's going to be #4, even though that'd be the most disapointing, storywise

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However, if the devs were going to take that route, they wouldn't have put in half the effort we've seen in the 7th Umbral/Dalamud Story.

No, we have story and explanation for everything. The designs for the 2.0 world are deliberately based on this event and may well be a focal point in the 2.0 storyline. There's gonna be an explanation for the existence of a rebuilt world, I'm sure of it.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Another tough question for you guys...
Ten years ago, the paragons taught the beast tribes how to summon Primals...

Who are the Paragons???

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Perhaps they are like the Occuria... They could even *gasp* be the bosses of old FF games redesigned as 'fallen gods' for FFXIV (like the FFXII zodiac espers were).

Paragons... it does fit.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

So...are we using the Echo from 2.0 to go back in time and try to avert the fall of Dalamud? Beating Ifrit, stopping the Moogles, everything we've done to this point...was it all just us reliving the events through the eyes of the Twelve?

Were you ever REALLY in the Bowl of Embers?

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My 4 stacks of lvl 5 Dark Matter says I was there. You want to argue with that? ('Echo loot' ftw)

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Originally Posted by Aryden

The easiest way to explain the change from 1.2x to 2.0, including all of the things discussed about Dalmud, changes to the environment, cities, races, etc is this:

WE FAIL TO STOP IT.

Everything we are doing is via the Echo. 2.0 is our reality and we are looking back at how things came to be. This allows for SE to do/change anything yet still keep a sense of "reality".

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That would blow my gourd. But I do agree that gives them the power to do pretty much anything. Liking this theory.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

The 7th umbral will come and we'll be in a new world.. but this will really be a flash-sideways to an alternate relaity, and when the 8th umbral comes we'll be shocked back into our original world.

But that is nothing! BOTH of those are actually flash-forwards of our lives from when we were in Vana'diel! One day, after everyone has all DarkLight and 100 anima, we will finally wake up from this crazily incepted world and find out we are we are still back in the Kingdom of Coneria.

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Yea, Lost was awesome. :)

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Originally Posted by Delsus

In one cutscene for a class quest (can't remember which one) you get seen while using the Echo, and when you come back to the present day the person you were watching (and saw you) remembers you from it, so therefore it must actually happen, or you are implanted in the persons memory. I would suggest you don't try to think on the temoral paradoxes too much, it gets rather painful.

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I can't honestly remember where, but I am pretty sure it's explained during a quest that yes, in the Echo you will alter people's memories (like of you being there during an event), but you will not change the actuality of what occurred.

Maybe someone can back me up with a quote.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

In one cutscene for a class quest (can't remember which one) you get seen while using the Echo, and when you come back to the present day the person you were watching (and saw you) remembers you from it, so therefore it must actually happen, or you are implanted in the persons memory. I would suggest you don't try to think on the temoral paradoxes too much, it gets rather painful.

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I think you just implant yourself into the persons memory... I'd accept that you were there if someone who wasn't the person being echo'd remembers you at some past event... but there is no evidence of that

It would be neat if Dalamud pass to be something like.... *input dramatical Chrono Triger music here* LAVOS!!!!.

Well SE has made use of alien entities making changes to earth before just as "the creator" and "Lavos", this last one beign the one who played a gigantic roll into earths changes and evolution, as so going far to control time itself.

And dont forget... the outside body of Lavos was so giant that its shell became a whole mountain in the future of that game's world.

But me im going out of subject. i just like to point that maybe the empyre porpouse dont be make dalamud crash against us, but maybe get it enough close to us to retrieve something from it? be it a rare form of aether or something else that controls it, a lifeform living in it( if it doesnt turn to be itself a living beign), or maybe use it as somesort of weapon to destroy all avatars (remember empyre hate them with passion).

EDIT: Who knows, maybe Dalamud be the native world of the avatars , and the avatars we have atm in our land are avatars that landed on our world and got stuck on our planet when dalamud got summoned time ago, since i dont recall it right, but think a CS makes mention Dalamud has been sumoned succesfully previous to our age.

Look at the new logo for the Legacy members on the forum front page. Is it me or does Dalmud look man made and not like a moon. God I hope it's not something Death Star-like...