Delete Clemency and Vercure

No ty sir, I like clemency on my PLD and veracure on my RDM, their really fun to have and can be life savers for my party members or me in dungeons or me in solo content.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Edit: for those who don't know, Clemency and Vercure are PLD's and RDM's GCD (fairly strong) single target healing abilities.

I'm exaggerating with the title and am not convinced those abilities should be deleted yet, but hear me out:

Very insulting as healer if you see RDM or PLD use Clemency/Vercure when you have everything under control. You're maximizing your dps as healer and thus put in some effort to efficiently heal to extend party will survive only to see the dps gain get completely wasted by that Vercure/Clemency.

At first I kind of liked those abilities when leveling both PLD and RDM, but now have come to hate them when leveling healers to the point I'm wondering if those abilities should even exist. Sure they're really nice abilities if you're doing solo content, but they may suggest the wrong idea to some players by making them believe they should freely use them in group content.

The thing is that healers currently usually rely on their oGCD's for healing while they keep GCD's for dps. In many cases they will let HP decrease so they can make optimal use of their oGCD's. Some RDM and PLD may start thinking they or someone else are going to die with their decreasing health while healer has everything under control and is 1 tap away of getting their HP back up.

There are some exceptional cases, like when healer is dead, or massive overpulling in some specific lower level dungoens, but vast majority of cases I see those 2 abilities used is a complete waste.

The dps loss doesn't bother me that much, it's just not nice for a healer when they're already stuck with their monotone dps rotation and on top of that they deny you of enjoying your job with well timed oGCD's.

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I would like to provide a few things to consider:
- Not everyone plays healer so they have no idea how OP oGCD heals are.
- Some people feel really nervous when their HP drops below... say 20% and want to provide an extra buffer. In dungeons most healers will not let it drop that low so when it happens people assume the healer is struggling.
- Some people like to feel like they're helping.
- Some people think healers enjoy DPSing in dungeons. See point above.
- There was a debate a while ago (i'm old so i can't remember if it was months ago or years ago by now) theorizing that PLD should use clemency since some healers dealt so much dmg that it actually meant more party damage to have the PLD self heal and let the healer nuke. I believe it was debunked, but it doesn't matter now since things have changed. Maybe someone was playing during that time and have just returned because of shadowbringers.
- The HP % that you are comfortable with differs from person to person. Some people get really nervous if it goes below 50%. Some are fine even at sub 20% of HP left. I sort of make it a rule to not look at my HP when tanking. If I die it's because someone messed up. Either I didn't use my cooldowns efficiently enough, the healer healed too late or the dps took so long we all ran out of cooldowns.

Now I need to ask 2 absurdly stupid questions:
Why are you targetting those 2 skills in particular when almost every class has a form of healing?
Why do you chose to be offended over it?

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Originally Posted by tdb

It does give a self-centered vibe, even if such an option wouldn't directly affect other players (but it could indirectly if you took screenshots and posted them; a lot of the time the default appearance is a horrible mishmash of different sets). You seem very intent on having control over how others play and appear to you.

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The self-centered argument can go both ways in either this thread, my previous prepulling thread as well as posts advocating for client-side glamour hiding. Any time you tell me I'm self-centered for not wanting players to use Clemency/Vercure, I can respond by saying that they are the ones that are self-centered for not allowing me to optimize my job and enjoy the role, and vice versa. It's imo a useless argument that requires to ignore the reverse perspective, no matter which side you're on.

Don't see the problem with either of those. In a party situation everyone is working together to make sure the group succeeds, if someone wants to pick up some slack for me with a Heal here and there I'm not insecure enough to mind. I help with the damage and no one complains, I shouldn't complain if someone can fire a heal now and then. It's not a personal insult if someone other than a healer dares to heal.

I made an account just to say no. I've cleared many trials, dungeon bosses, and a few raids because of clemency after healers died. Don't even get me started on doing solo stuff.

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis_Zolwe

I made an account just to say no. I've cleared many trials, dungeon bosses, and a few raids because of clemency after healers died. Don't even get me started on doing solo stuff.

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This. 100x

Yes Ive carried many ppl that didnt deserve it but welp, either that or i can only do stuff premade lol

I could not clear Eden now bc healers kept dying and we had no one else to ress, so i switched to RDM from tank, suddenly it was np.

lol no there's absolutely no reason to remove those spells and if you take "offense" to them then that is on you. They're support spells and nothing more. If you see a PLD using Clemency on themselves or someone else it's because they saw a lack of healing from the Healers for an upcoming mechanic. The same goes for RDM who make use a quick Vercure to top off after being raised or something else.

As a healer main, I would like S-E to do a serious buff to SMN's Physick. That skill is really, really, REALLY useless. A 400 Potency heal that scales of Mind in a DPS, which attacks scales of Intelligence.

Clemency and Vercure is great at where they are. And if I see a PLD using Clemency or a Red Mage using Vercure when I'm in a pinch (for example, when my co-healer is dead, there are an incoming raid-wide, tank is low hp and all my CDs is down), I'll make sure that they'll be comm'd.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

They're wrong with not trusting, they don't know which oGCD's the healer has ready.

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No, they are not wrong. Unless they have played enough with that healer to know they can trust them, they are right in not trusting.
If you have a problem with that, well that's too bad.

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Originally Posted by seraf

lol no there's absolutely no reason to remove those spells and if you take "offense" to them then that is on you. They're support spells and nothing more. If you see a PLD using Clemency on themselves or someone else it's because they saw a lack of healing from the Healers for an upcoming mechanic. The same goes for RDM who make use a quick Vercure to top off after being raised or something else.

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Not always. PLD maybe would like to trigger Divine Veil, that is triggered when received a direct GCD heal.