When do the training wheels come off?

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Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

So it was the hearts? If that’s the case then, then I can only think it would be the fire 4 I would throw in to take out any mobs that were low on health. My rotation was like thunder>fire2>fire2>fire2(and maybe one more)>flare>Thunder(if needed refresh)>freeze >freeze>fire 2. In between that I would throw in foul and random fire 4 on low health mobs. Flare would always be completely grayed out until enough mp would show up. So maybe that was it?

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Wait... that makes no sense though. Fire/Blizzard I/II only grant 1 stack, and will outright drop your Astral/Umbral if cast from the other element; a straight Fire II from Umbral Ice would drop your Enochian, preventing Fire IV and Foul, along with dropping your Umbral Hearts. Were you using Transpose or a cast of Fire III to switch to Astral Fire? Assuming you were, that would in any case be three fire spells cast in Astral Fire before your first Flare, using up all your Hearts and thus preventing the use of a second Flare.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

Because it was overkill even in ARR. It was an archaic gaming practice that somehow survived in FFXIV, but the only thing it actually did is make the game take longer while allowing, even encouraging, the entire group to contribute less. It was a casual practice for inexperienced casual players.

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I can't tell where you're going with this. Was it really so wrong for "inexperienced casual players" pre-50 to be using a means of communication so they don't lose enmity and get others killed? Were tanks really expected to be able to pull multiple groups, survive, and keep enmity by the time everything was killed? I don't believe that was even possible without proper party composition. With the TP restrictions, bard, monk, and dragoon would be empty before everything died. Also, bard and monk wouldn't have invigorate if they didn't level lancer; meaning even less TP. By the time they could kill everything, the tank would either die or healer runs out of MP leading to the tank still dying.

When you say stuff like, "Be good and AOE them down" as if ARR leveling dungeons were a cake walk like they are today - I don't know what the heck you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

Tanks can't wear caster gear.

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Sub-50, of course they can. It wasn't until HW when Square began to restrict DoW and DoM armor. And it wasn't until SB when they did the same to crafter/gatherer equipment (and also DoW/M accessories).

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

So what you're saying is that you were able to successfully handle the basics of the game because past experience had prepared you for it.

Did you ever consider that not everyone has that past experience?

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A few of the friends I got to try XIV had scarcely played video games, and not a single MMO, before trying it. None of them had issues learning it, with only the occasional idiosyncrasy needing explanation (like server tick rates from which to get an accurate potency estimate for DoTs) to understand and play the game as well as pretty much anyone else. And it's not like they're the kind to just pick up and master anything or everything; the experience gained over leveling, especially back at 2.0 where expectations were a bit higher, was simply sufficient for learning for anyone who cared to think, at all, about what they were doing and how best to do it.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

More I was getting at forcing people into pulls that make aoes more efficient over single mob rotations, then getting mad that they don't aoe when the party grabbed that many, I could be wrong but it feels like SE sides with the less stress model over the faster model. We used to be able to pull almost boss to boss. They can't gate it anymore, can they?

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I don't get how it's forcing when its common sense that if there's 3+ more mobs I should AoE, if there's 2 I should single target, as for the 2nd look at the Vault the dungeon practically pulls itself and has groupings of 6+ enemies in a pull its almost like the game is screaming at you to AoE them down. Actually depending on your comp you can pull faster than every now since all the dungeons are zzz until what Qarn when you finally have to do a mechanic? Look at Sastasha with a PLD/BRD/RDM/WHM for example, the WHM can't AoE but the other 2 DPS + the tank can and they can do it much easier/the same as before so I feel like that's a moot point, all in all just read the tooltips and when there's 3+ mobs AoE its not forcing gameplay just knowing when you should AoE which is pretty easy to tell.

You cant help these people, some of them are completely clueless and shouldnt go into any roullette at all.
I mean, i wasnt perfect when i first played either but i knew the basics, i knew i need to upgrade my eq so i did it many many times often buying from MB as a newbie, and i gone through hall of novice too which taught me a lot.

People who are newbie and are playing like completely random generated bot (i think it is the case) are this kind that does not care about anything and will probably never learn, they are not going to play this game for longer, they will leave it after some time. Game should not remade itself to make this kind of players to stay, because they wont, SE would have to dumb down everything to the pvp level of complexity and even then it would be hard for them to find out how to play it. PVP rework was made so it was more accessible for people to play it, and it did nothing, old player left it thats all, a very few of new pvp players cared anyway.
Dont feel bad for newbies who dont care, if someone does care then he will find himself in the game sooner or later, its not too complicated for a thinking human being.

@edit
And yep, it could be just a bot trying to lvl the character.

This is why SE needs to install minimum ilvl requirements on any dungeons post 51+. Have their job stone and at LEAST appropriate gear for the class the player is queing in as. Which means no caster accessories when you're healing. Like COME ON. It's not asking a lot to be at least in the right gear. No one is asking you to be super geared at all. Just enough so you will survive and live through said dungeon. Being not appropriately geared is going to cause not you, but EVERYONE in the party issues. Which means the party should be in the rights to kick someone, if the player in question is causing more problems, BECAUSE of their gear. It'll cause less issues if there was that ilvl requirement on dungeons above 51.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I do think that this is part of the issue, for sure. For a lot of people FF XIV is their first MMO experience. Imo, it's SE's fault for not giving people a proper explanation of their jobs/roles. Hall of the Novice should be a requirement before anyone is sent on their way through the MSQ. And even then it doesn't teach anywhere near enough as it should.

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Agreed. 10

I've encountered people (in a variety of roles and jobs) who had no idea that job stones were a thing. I had a few times when I first started playing where I ended up in a dungeon without my (newly acquired) job stones equipped. It wasn't until I'd been playing for awhile and picked up a few quirks of the game that I started double checking to ensure that I had a job stone equipped (where applicable) before queuing for a roulette.

Do I think it's a problem if a tank doesn't know that they can upgrade their job or has bad gear? Depends on the content. In level 44 content I don't worry about it too much. If it were level 60+ content, I'd have an issue though. But the same goes for dps and healers too. If I saw someone coming into, say, Crystal Tower or Void Ark as a GLD or CNJ, I might be concerned. Garuda normal? Meh. I can focus on healing them instead of dpsing, and as long as they are otherwise playing their job correctly I don't consider it a really big deal (although I might ask something along the lines of "Not upgraded class yet?" and explain the concept if they're unaware of it). I generally figure I'm good enough at my job that I can cope with one other person not really knowing theirs.

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Originally Posted by HakaseNyan

When you say stuff like, "Be good and AOE them down" as if ARR leveling dungeons were a cake walk like they are today - I don't know what the heck you are talking about.

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/flashbacks to running Brayflox, Stone Vigil and AV during 2.0.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/42a0...temid=12784887