Lack of content on patch release

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Originally Posted by Squintina

(and as Sendohjin pointed out, when content gives similar prizes, the choice becomes illusionary as people will go for what gives the best reward).

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In that case, maybe that's how the game manage rewards that is the problem? Or that you can't have valuable reward outside of glamour, with how the game manage itemization and that the devs are now spreading the patch because this is the only thing they can think of?

Again, the players aren't the problem here. The game design is.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

By spacing things out, it gives people who play together something to focus on without having to worry about their individual preferences.

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No, that's just the excuse that could come out of S.E.'s mouth. There's no need to play together to do namazu quest, or the MSQ (outside of the trial of course). Of course you can play with friends for ultimate if you have access to it. But that's the only content coming from this patch that I can think of, while waiting for HoH.


As I said, I can only think of this as an artificial increase of this patch's lifespan. And the excuse that make us looks like children only make it worse for me.

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Originally Posted by Miyafuji

I personally like being able to have a selection of things to do which helps provide the mmo feel of "what shall I do today?" not "what am I forced to do today?" .

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That's a problem for me too, what I wanted to say it's I understand why it's done this way and why some ppl would like this but I still don't like what they are doing after all of that, frankly I don't like weekly caps on not raid content either, I would like to be able to recreate the doman enclave at my own pace for example

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

In that case, maybe that's how the game manage rewards that is the problem?

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yes, it is and some of us know this, but that's a different topic.

it's also a problem
1) that's very difficult to fix
2) that will never be fixed mid-expansion. they're not going to change itemization on a catch up patch.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

I get delaying the time consuming content a little bit from the story experience (even though the story isnt going anywhere and there are no world first races for story) but couldnt they have added the other three pieces of the patch all at the same time? The defending of this is just bizarre, and I'm a bloody white knight for this game... or at least I used to be.

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the devs actually learned from their mistakes with Ramuh EX and Bismarck EX, very very few people did them because they came out at the same time as content that had superior rewards.

how much Bismarck EX did you do compared to Ravana EX?

what you're asking for has been done before and it was worse for most people.

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

In that case, maybe that's how the game manage rewards that is the problem? Or that you can't have valuable reward outside of glamour, with how the game manage itemization and that the devs are now spreading the patch because this is the only thing they can think of?

Again, the players aren't the problem here. The game design is.

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I'll give you that one. If they didn't make the rewards compete with each other, they wouldn't need to space out for this particular reason.

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

No, that's just the excuse that could come out of S.E.'s mouth. There's no need to play together to do namazu quest, or the MSQ (outside of the trial of course). Of course you can play with friends for ultimate if you have access to it. But that's the only content coming from this patch that I can think of, while waiting for HoH.


As I said, I can only think of this as an artificial increase of this patch's lifespan. And the excuse that make us looks like children only make it worse for me.

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You don't need for it to be party play for it to interfere. If they had released everything all at once and my friends wanted to go do HoH, but I wanted to go do MSQ, then that means I'd have to force them to wait for me or replace me. (this is just an example, not based on my own personal life, just something I might think others could have). By releasing things piecemeal, it certainly makes it easier for people to organize when and what to do together and when and what to do solo. 4.3 was mostly the "solo" content patch, 4.31 has the first party play.

While I don't doubt the possibility that they are doing this to delay content (to keep subs or to give themselves more time to finish things up), I also don't doubt the possibility that these other factors might also be part of their rationale. It's really all I'm trying to say.

It's not that I necessarily excuse it completely, but I just don't see it as just "SE is trying to get more out of us and treat us like children". I see it as them wanting to make sure all the content they worked hard on isn't ignored by the playerbase, or cause any strife among players who normally play together.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

Oh no! having options is hard....

Kinda amusing how you comment its the illusion of choice then give the fictitious scenario where they WERE all released at once and try to bolster your argument by saying everyone chooses to do something different...

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I don't see how it's amusing. They don't contradict.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

Choice also only works well when you think of individual people (and as Sendohjin pointed out, when content gives similar prizes, the choice becomes illusionary as people will go for what gives the best reward).

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First part says choice works well only if you're thinking of individuals, which was the intro to the rest of the post about how this individual choice no longer plays nice once friends with their own personal choices are involved, but that can be overcome by pacing the content.

Then in a parenthetical statement, I then stated that if the content gives similar prizes, the choice is illusionary. So if they don't give rewards where one is clearly a superior version of another, then choice still exists - but once that choice exists, it goes back to how poorly it can be executed when thinking beyond the individual and into the community.
In the case where the choice actually does become illusionary, it actually makes it easier for people to decide beyond their personal preferences, and plays better for communities, but that leads to people ignoring content - thus the need to pace it comes up again.

Perhaps it wasn't stated clearly, but there was no contradiction. Just 2 different scenarios with 2 separate issue, both of them resolved by pacing.

Asiragan, the person quoted above, took these 2 separate scenarios individually, so please see the response I had to her at the top of this post.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

yes, it is and some of us know this, but that's a different topic.

it's also a problem
1) that's very difficult to fix
2) that will never be fixed mid-expansion. they're not going to change itemization on a catch up patch.

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Fair enough. All I'm asking for is that it's fixed at all, which is why I'm waiting for 5.0. But with Yoshida's interviews about how he view equipment in the game, almost saying that it's already too complex, I'm not holding my breath too much.
But to me, it's what is paralyzing FFXIV these last years and I really hope they could come with a good solution.

Then again, this isn't the topic, and you are right by pointing that out. But I think highlighting this was still necessary.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

You don't need for it to be party play for it to interfere. If they had released everything all at once and my friends wanted to go do HoH, but I wanted to go do MSQ, then that means I'd have to force them to wait for me or replace me. (this is just an example, not based on my own personal life, just something I might think others could have). By releasing things piecemeal, it certainly makes it easier for people to organize when and what to do together and when and what to do solo. 4.3 was mostly the "solo" content patch, 4.31 has the first party play.

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Aside from Eureka, there is no other content that will hold you long enough so that people can't wait for you if they want it. I get your point, but to say it's one of the reasons to delay content that much is a little far-fetched. That's the point of view I have about it all, but I may have become a "little" cynical toward S.E. since Eureka in 4.25.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

the devs actually learned from their mistakes with Ramuh EX and Bismarck EX, very very few people did them because they came out at the same time as content that had superior rewards.

how much Bismarck EX did you do compared to Ravana EX?

what you're asking for has been done before and it was worse for most people.

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To answer your questions, 0. I don't do ex or savage, not until the iLev has evolved enough to take all the teeth out of the fight because I dont know people who do them I could join that would be patient enough to help me learn. I'm not a slow learner but when the party disbands after a single attempt, its tough to get practice in. I dont begrudge people wanting hard content, thats awesome! All the power to them.

I have a question though, maybe you will have an answer, maybe not. When Bismark EX and Ravana EX came out, you say people didnt play them because they could get better rewards, what else came out at the same time that was better? I dont recall the specifics. Also dont we have two whole expansions full of content that is now outpaced and out rewarded? If this is how all their content is destined to be because of their formula, maybe its the formula they use that need to fix, not the way they deliver the formula. Either way, this speaks to what my real gripe is about FFXIV, the rewards/incentives this game puts out. They really need to fix this ilev grind and make equipment matter longer than a patch or two. But that is a whole other rant for a different thread.

Ravana ex weapon was higher and stronger than Bismarck ex when they were released at the same time. Making Bis ex not worth doing unless you were going for bird or mats.

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Originally Posted by Bernkastelx

Ravana ex weapon was higher and stronger than Bismarck ex when they were released at the same time. Making Bis ex not worth doing unless you were going for bird or mats.

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So this is a problem SE has had for a long time now, they cant seem to figure out how to properly reward/motivate/incentivize their players. Vertical progression is ok to a point, after that you need to expand outwards. Right now, if the gave every new character created a jump potion, they could probably delete all of 2.0 and 3.0 except the zones and no one would notice those things are missing.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

So this is a problem SE has had for a long time now, they cant seem to figure out how to properly reward/motivate/incentivize their players. Vertical progression is ok to a point, after that you need to expand outwards. Right now, if the gave every new character created a jump potion, they could probably delete all of 2.0 and 3.0 except the zones and no one would notice those things are missing.

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At the beginning of 4.0, they did not repeat the same mistake that was Ravana/Bismark by giving accessories to Lakshmi, and weapons to Susanoo, and they got away with it like that.

It's still a far from ideal solution though and I firmly believe that if the developers want to make fun, rewarding and/or lasting content they will need to review seriously how to handle this.
But as SendohJin said, it won't happen mid-expansion...

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

So this is a problem SE has had for a long time now, they cant seem to figure out how to properly reward/motivate/incentivize their players.

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For me its feels like i playing heavensward the second time