Been running Ridorana Lighthouse the whole week and...

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Originally Posted by Awha

I just cannot see how granting one player within a group priority over giving everyone an equal opportunity at what has dropped due the collective effort of the group is a bad thing.

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Because it removes control away from players and makes everyone entirely dependent on multiple layers of RNG. If they wanted a fully equal opportunity system, adopt a token system so people aren't forced to not only run Ridorana several times, but run it several more when something like the OP depicted happens.

What concerns me is if they adopted this system in other content. Twelve help us all if Savage had Greed only rules. If you ever want to kill a pug scene...

Kinda glad, at least for tanks, the substats are lackluster and the skin looks like crap.

Not really here to argue just trying to understand at this point. So more less if player is the right role / job despite their reasoning for rolling need either it be for an upgrade, FC hand in, or glam they should be granted priority over the rest of the group because they happened to queue up as said roll and or job?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Because it removes control away from players and makes everyone entirely dependent on multiple layers of RNG. If they wanted a fully equal opportunity system, adopt a token system so people aren't forced to not only run Ridorana several times, but run it several more when something like the OP depicted happens.

What concerns me is if they adopted this system in other content. Twelve help us all if Savage had Greed only rules. If you ever want to kill a pug scene...

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I have mentioned before I do wish they would go with a token based system or some trade in system then this all greed thing would work out. I will agree it is not a perfect system, and it does remove control from the players and puts everyone in the same RNG boat which in my eyes beats having other players be granted priority simply for happening to be the right job / role. Either way I do agree a token based system would be the ideal, but this current system is still far more of an equal opportunity system then what we had before. You are 100% right if this system went into savage as is it would kill the PuG scene, this greed all system does give me hope of them switching to a token based loot system come 5.0 a lala can dream right.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I am sorry Billy, I get where you are coming from

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Sorry but to be blunt you really don't.

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Originally Posted by Awha

For lack of better words it is hard for me to accept another desire at something that has dropped over another. Sure the item might be an upgrade, but would that slight upgrade provide such a huge boon to the groups effectiveness that it should granted priority over everyone else in the group? It is hard for me to example but I simply cannot come to terms with that notion.

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Why are you claiming that alliance loot is a slight upgrade? For some players it's a massive upgrade. You need 335 ilvl to enter Ridorana but it drops 360 loot. That's a massive jump in ilvls. 25 ilvl gain is crazy high.

Even at ilvl 350 the 360 gear can be a huge upgrade if the 360 version has better itemisation than the 350.

Not all the tomestone gear is great for every class. Someone replacing 360 tomestone gear with 360 Ridorana gear can have the same effect as increasing ilvl if their class is very reliant on some stats and gets very little benefit from others.

Higher ilvl doesn't always mean better gear. I replaced my 370 boots with 360 from Ridorana because the huge chunk of crit I gained far outweighed the minor hp and mind gain from the 370.

I think you fail to see how giving priority for gear is fair because you don't know how combat stats work. Alliance gear isn't as insignificant as you think.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Sorry but to be blunt you really don't.



Why are you claiming that alliance loot is a slight upgrade? For some players it's a massive upgrade. You need 335 ilvl to enter Ridorana but it drops 360 loot. That's a massive jump in ilvls. 25 ilvl gain is crazy high.

Even at ilvl 350 the 360 gear can be a huge upgrade if the 360 version has better itemisation than the 350.

Not all the tomestone gear is great for every class. Someone replacing 360 tomestone gear with 360 Ridorana gear can have the same effect as increasing ilvl if their class is very reliant on some stats and gets very little benefit from others.

Higher ilvl doesn't always mean better gear. I replaced my 370 boots with 360 from Ridorana because the huge chunk of crit I gained far outweighed the minor hp and mind gain from the 370.

I think you fail to see how giving priority for gear is fair because you don't know how combat stats work. Alliance gear isn't as insignificant as you think.

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It is a slight upgrade in the sense that I doubt having one upgrade will make the overall run that much quicker or more effective as a whole. If it does fair enough, I have not done the math or looked at the longs to do the math how much time such an upgrade with shave off the overall run. I mean for me that benefits of that would have to either equal or surpass the effects of the group for it to right to take away the groups right to roll on the item.

I do get where you are coming form, you want role priority due to the fact that you took the time to queue up as that role and you should be granted some level of safety against other players snagging what could potential be an upgrade? I mean that is my basic understanding, I have always had a hard time understanding the notion of giving certain players in a PuG setting priority over others. I do not like RNG or gear treadmills, but if I had to pick my poison, it would be a token based system and this greed only rule set works far better with a token system over a straight gear reward system.

Going to just run it maybe twice a week, ran it 4 times and not even a piece of striking dropped those runs. I could of just Greed some gear for WAR but wasn't sure if I'd regret it or not.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I do get where you are coming form

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You keep saying that but you don't.

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Originally Posted by Awha

you want role priority due to the fact that you took the time to queue up as that role and you should be granted some level of safety against other players snagging what could potential be an upgrade?

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My personal reasoning for wanting role priority is so I can help my raid team. If my gear gets better then the team has increased chance of killing the boss. Sure something might be a minor upgrade for me, but if several individuals get minor upgrades then the team as a whole gets a big upgrade. This reasoning is actually standard across most raiding teams.

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Originally Posted by Awha

but would that slight upgrade provide such a huge boon to the groups effectiveness that it should granted priority over everyone else in the group?

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You don't get where I'm coming from because you don't look at the bigger picture. You keep going on about how the upgrade won't affect the alliance raid's performance, but you don't even think about how that upgrade might affect other content.

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Originally Posted by Awha

So more less if player is the right role / job despite their reasoning for rolling need either it be for an upgrade, FC hand in, or glam they should be granted priority over the rest of the group because they happened to queue up as said roll and or job?

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You have no way of knowing what they're going to use it for. You do know, however, that they have the job unlocked at the right level for it. Which is more than enough reason to go "hm. That person probably needs it more than that other person who isn't currently on that job".
Right now, people still roll on the gear with those exact reasons, difference is they win them over people who need them for their main raison d'etre - being used by battle classes.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You keep saying that but you don't.
My personal reasoning for wanting role priority is so I can help my raid team. If my gear gets better then the team has increased chance of killing the boss. Sure something might be a minor upgrade for me, but if several individuals get minor upgrades then the team as a whole gets a big upgrade. This reasoning is actually standard across most raiding teams.

You don't get where I'm coming from because you don't look at the bigger picture. You keep going on about how the upgrade won't affect the alliance raid's performance, but you don't even think about how that upgrade might affect other content.

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Because those that are affected in the moment will be the alliance raid, who is the say that your current group that you were granted priority over will run more content with you in the future to reap the benefits of your upgrade thus making their future runs better overall. If we are talking a static situation or a PF that does multiple runs I can see where you are coming from, but from my experience most 24's are one offs.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

You have no way of knowing what they're going to use it for. You do know, however, that they have the job unlocked at the right level for it. Which is more than enough reason to go "hm. That person probably needs it more than that other person who isn't currently on that job".
Right now, people still roll on the gear with those exact reasons, difference is they win them over people who need them for their main raison d'etre - being used by battle classes.

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That is the point I was trying to make the group has no way of knowing what a player is going to do with the gear, and because they do not know why should they be granted priority simply due to their role / job? In a static setting it makes sense, but in a PuG setting granting priority to another due to their role or job seems odd to me. More or less blind faith that they will put the item to good use since they have happened to queue with that job in the moment.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Because those that are effected in the moment will be the alliance raid, who is the say that your current group that you were granted priority over will run more content with you in the future to reap the benefits of your upgrade thus making their future runs better overall. If we are talking a static situation or a PF that does multiple runs I can see where you are coming from, but from my experience most 24's are one offs.

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Before the last patch I used to run 24 mans several times a week to cap tomes, gear up jobs, get glams and to just generally have fun. I have only done one since the patch. Greed only made 24 mans one offs for me.

Also for all your talk of fairness your statement in that quote is incredibly selfish. You have basically said "if someone getting an upgrade doesn't make a noticeable difference to me then I don't want them to have priority on an upgrade even if it's for their role"