SE: if it aint broke, dont fix it (War)

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

I don't think I would bother switching back to Defiance unless I REALLY need to, since Unchained only lasts for 20 seconds, and even then I would be missing out on 5% damage dealt.

Not to mention I'd also be missing on Deliverance's crit increase.

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Some quick napkin math and it looks like it would be worth it to switch into deliverance (tank stance) for unchained and upheaval. Especially if the rumors about unchained double dipping on upheaval are true.

The bigger issue in my mind with this is that this would effectively mean Warrior would have 0 penalty for using a nonzero amount of tank stance, which is a huge benefit to have, essentially another 2 minute cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

I don't think I would bother switching back to Defiance unless I REALLY need to, since Unchained only lasts for 20 seconds, and even then I would be missing out on 5% damage dealt.

Not to mention I'd also be missing on Deliverance's crit increase.

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20 seconds is more than enough(twice as much actually) time to go back to Deliverance before the penalty kicks back in. I never suggested to sit full time in Defiance, just enough to take advantage of Unchained and the increased Upheaval damage.
The loss of 5% bonus from Deliverance and the varying bonus crit would indeed be something to consider, but that might be outweighed by the gain in healer dps.

I agree with the OP. War is just perfect where it is now not that shake it off was changed. if you have issues, maybe you need to learn more about how to actually play war. plenty of people around here that are willing to help you figure it out. it's different from the other two. it really doesn't need changed or tweaked at all

Either way, I wouldn't be too worried, since I can't recall SE ever downright nerfing a class between patches unless they were obviously broken, which WAR isn't.

I guess the mentioned "usability" might refer to the fact that WAR's DPS abilities scream "OT", while their defensive abilities and the lack of a buddy shield say "MT", so they'll probably look into that.

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

Either way, I wouldn't be too worried, since I can't recall SE ever downright nerfing a class between patches unless they were obviously broken, which WAR isn't.

I guess the mentioned "usability" might refer to the fact that WAR's DPS abilities scream "OT", while their defensive abilities and the lack of a buddy shield say "MT", so they'll probably look into that.

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I'm not sure what this means, this seems like a good thing and one of their stated goals for the expansion? Can you elaborate?

To my personal experience, Warriors have always been the off-tank, but things being as they are now, many want Warriors to main tank instead, because the other two fill the OT job better nowdays.

It also doesn't help that Warrior's DPS rotation is more susceptible to mechanics than that of PLD and DRK.

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Originally Posted by drgnmstr44

I agree with the OP. War is just perfect where it is now not that shake it off was changed. if you have issues, maybe you need to learn more about how to actually play war. plenty of people around here that are willing to help you figure it out. it's different from the other two. it really doesn't need changed or tweaked at all

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Define perfect?

Also if some of the best warrior players in the world or even just top tier ones talk about its issues, then do they need to learn to play warrior?

Sounds more like you just want to downplay Warrior concerns by telling people to "git gud" and that "it's perfect".

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Some quick napkin math and it looks like it would be worth it to switch into deliverance (tank stance) for unchained and upheaval. Especially if the rumors about unchained double dipping on upheaval are true.

The bigger issue in my mind with this is that this would effectively mean Warrior would have 0 penalty for using a nonzero amount of tank stance, which is a huge benefit to have, essentially another 2 minute cooldown.

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Where did you hear that from?

Which part? The napkin math? I did that myself, if unchained were seperated from Inner release, it appears to be a gain, despite the 5% buff loss to switch as long as you don't stay in deliverance for more than 10 seconds.

Unchain double dipping with upheaval? I tested myself. Unchained appears to produce a 25% increase in damage on upheaval above and beyond tank stance bonus. You don't need anything fancy to test just a pen and paper. Do upheaval and look at the bas damage, no crits or direct hits a few times. Then do it again with unchained, you'll notice a 25% boost, which would be exactly what is needed to counteract tank stance.

I have no doubt this is an unintended consequence (like the dissipation glitch) but it has existed since 4.0.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Unchain double dipping with upheaval? I tested myself. Unchained appears to produce a 25% increase in damage on upheaval above and beyond tank stance bonus.

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Not quite understanding. What you mean by double dipping. Do you mean if unchained was separate from inner release that you'd use upheaval with both stances?

And yes it does more damage based on your health and ignores damage penalties so if you were in unchained it would do more damage then in deliverance.

Sorry if I'm not quite understanding lol

So what I mean is that unchained works by buffing the damage output of warrior by 25% to ignore the tank stance penalty, unless a move already ignores the tank stance penalty like inner beast.

Upheaval gains a damage boost from defiance, as it should, and it ignores the tank stance penalty. Unchained should not modify its damage further. However, this is not the case, if you pop unchained and use upheaval you will do more damage than if you just used it in tank stance without unchained. That is what I mean by double dipping.