Is it time for relics to be the same ilevel as savage weapons?

I think a very important thing which was not mentioned yet, is the fact that there exists a certain type of competition among raiders. At least among the good teams.
Those people aim for very high numbers and to achieve those they need the best possible gear to be better than the other top 10% of the same class. To get those tiny last percentages out and out DPS your contestants you definetly need BiS gear.
For now BiS gear is a mixture of augmented Allagan gear and raid gear, means you have to grind tomestones AND clear the savages to get the BiS!

If you now add a Relic of same ilvl and stats as the savage weapon it will change the contest! Even if you cannot choose the stats yourself it still might be the fact the relic has better off stats than the savage one, which means that all the raiders that want those top ratings now need to put in more time to get that relic and then do the speed runs (again).

I think the relic should have same ilvl as the tomestone wep/augmented tomestone wep. Would be another way to get a really good weapon with a way more fancy style than tomestone one. :)

Curious as to where this time = effort thing is coming from. If that were the case everyone would clear savage eventually regardless of effort invested, but reality indicates otherwise. If what you meant was low effort over a longer period of time should eventually equal high effort over a shorter period of time, then I'd agree but also add that effort isn't the only thing the weapons reward. It's the frustration of many wipes, the difficulty of learning new dance steps, making a conscious effort to learn your class, and the decision to keep going when the same dps gets clipped by Thunder II for the 5th time in a row, causes a dps check wipe, and you question all your life decisions up until that point. Not saying that isn't effort too, but it's a different kind of effort that requires more than just enduring a grind that is the current popular thing to do anyway.

I'm all for relic weapons eventually being the strongest, after the final raid tier's relevance is dead and gone, but six months of slapping monsters to some KPOP BGM really isn't even remotely comparable to the first month of fresh raid content. The current relic strength formula seems pretty solid for now.

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Originally Posted by bugmancer

Yes we know raiding is super hard and makes you super special for clearing it when it's relevant but why do you give a heck if relics EVENTUALLY equal out to raid gear? the game appeals to all types of people who like different aspects of the game for different reason. does someone making a relic because they don't raid take anything at all away from your accomplishments? no, not in the slightest. so why even complain about it? because it kills incentive to raid? raiding will always be at the forefront on ilvl and once you beat it you can sit around going afk at your retainer bell exactly like the rest of us.

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I'm guessing you didn't read the thread at all. Raiders don't care if the relics eventually are on-par with the Savage weapons--just not in the same patch. Introduce an i345 relic at the same time as an i345 Savage weapon and bam, Savage weapons are immediately invalidated. Why even put them in the game. I could grind out a relic in a week or two rather than wait until I clear a tier possibly 8 times to get a Savage weapon.

It has absolutely nothing with "killing the incentive to raid"--raiders will still raid. Just the Savage weapons--the reward for clearing a tier--are entirely worthless outside of glamour. Especially if relics had customizable stats.

I'm also still confused in the end as to why the relics need to be the same ilvl as the savage/raid weapons. If you're not using it to clear raids, then... you don't need the absolute max? And if you are clearing raids then... get the savage/raid weapons.

If you don't need it, it shouldn't matter, and if you do need it you should do the work (raiding) to get it. I love the fact that XIV lets me acquire most things I like/want without having to do the supreme ultimate content, but I also only want the stuff I need. Extra ilvl on a weapon just for the sake of having it is a ridiculous reason.

And if you want it to make your savage/ultimate/raiding easier, well... that's not the purpose? The ilvl weapon is the reward for putting in the work.

One other aspect which may make some think..
Many players clear Savage before and without the weapon, so with this said both Relic and raiding weapons are nothing more then personal achievements i would think
So really does it matter that much if Relic (which could be argued is a longer grind) is the same Ilv?

I am not writing this to start arguements or a quotefest but words for thought

and this is why ultimate is a thing. as it stands now nothing outclasses the gear dropped from savage anyways. why would you ever need better weapons than the best? to be 10 levels overgeared on new content? when the relics catch up there will already be new raid tiers etc. but this whole thread reeks of people humble bragging when the point is everyone deserves content that may be enjoyable to do for them. you can criticise the choice of making relics on par or better than raid gear when it's end-end game but by then you can expect new content somewhere down the line. just hope that square doesnt make it some crappy rng drop from the diadem next time and maybe an exclusive tier of ultimate.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

How's this for a compromise?

SB relics get super generic models and dyeable like all previous raid tier weapons.

Raid weapons get cool glowy effects and fancy models.

How would the "low skill" playerbase feel about that compromise?

Alternatively, how would you guys feel about raiders being able to get the relic weapon via raiding as an alternative to mindless grinding? Would you feel slighted?

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The last part there might not be such a bad idea if we fleshed it out a little more. Maybe something like everyone starts the same relic and then a drop from the current savage tier raid can upgrade that weapon 5 or 10 more ilevels. Then when the next round of savage starts everyone else can bring up their relics throught beast tribe or tomestones and the raiders can upgrade another 5 or 10 ilevels with that savage drop.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

I'm also still confused in the end as to why the relics need to be the same ilvl as the savage/raid weapons. If you're not using it to clear raids, then... you don't need the absolute max?

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Extra damage is never wasted. For example I'm soloing A ranks in off hours when nobody comes to help. I'd rather do it in 30 seconds than in 1 minute.
In the long run higher ilevel accumulates to a lot of saved time, even if you don't raid, be it expert roulette and bird farm.
And time saved shouldn't be exclusive to raiders.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

I'm also still confused in the end as to why the relics need to be the same ilvl as the savage/raid weapons. If you're not using it to clear raids, then... you don't need the absolute max? And if you are clearing raids then... get the savage/raid weapons.

If you don't need it, it shouldn't matter, and if you do need it you should do the work (raiding) to get it. I love the fact that XIV lets me acquire most things I like/want without having to do the supreme ultimate content, but I also only want the stuff I need. Extra ilvl on a weapon just for the sake of having it is a ridiculous reason.

And if you want it to make your savage/ultimate/raiding easier, well... that's not the purpose? The ilvl weapon is the reward for putting in the work.

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You don't get to tell others what they need or don't need.

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Originally Posted by Maero

One other aspect which may make some think..
Many players clear Savage before and without the weapon, so with this said both Relic and raiding weapons are nothing more then personal achievements i would think
So really does it matter that much if Relic (which could be argued is a longer grind) is the same Ilv?

I am not writing this to start arguements or a quotefest but words for thought

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Let's assume the relics released with Stormblood's launch and were the equivalent ilvl as Savage weapons. During the two week delay between Omega Normal and Savage, the vast majority of raiders will grind it all out and thus, begin Savage with a ilvl 345 weapon. At this point, what purpose do the Lost Allagan or Genji equivalent serve? Both are rendered entirely obsolete. Don't think raiders would grind like that? People had various steps of the Anima done in days. Not to mention, with how much of a pushover Susano and Lakshmi were, people didn't have a whole lot to do after the story and many raiders tend to skip the MSQ and go back on an alt later.