Request: Ability to re-assign class levels after 1.20

OP: What's wrong with putting Conjurer's cross-class heals on your Thaumaturge's hotbar? You'll be a mediocre healer, but you've stated you're ok with that.

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Originally Posted by Alkoun

OP: What's wrong with putting Conjurer's cross-class heals on your Thaumaturge's hotbar? You'll be a mediocre healer, but you've stated you're ok with that.

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All of THM's new MP conservation/regeneration abilities are contingent on casting attack magic (or getting hit, if you count Stygian Spikes). Combine that with the removal of Exaltation and it means that THM will not be able to maintain their MP any better than if I were healing on ARC.

It's the equivalent of using BLM/WHM because RDM was removed.

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Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

Under this logic, why would they ever make any changes at all?

If what you are saying is true, then since other people's dislikes have obviously been accommodated (e.g. classes are more unique), then all dislikes must be accommodated, right? Obviously, that's not even possible.

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Apples and oranges.

Asking for handouts and special treatment as a result of class changes and rebalancing =/= requesting changes because of imbalances and flaws with the game design.

Again, you're asking SE to create a slippery slope for themselves, and I sure as hell hope that they are not stupid enough to oblige you.

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Originally Posted by Airget

With how dynamic the changes to THM have been compared to other classes the devs should sincerly take the time to consider how some who may have only leveled that class may feel about it. There's a reason why there was an argument for a long time as to what class would be WHM and which would be BLM or why not RDM instead of BLM. When you consider everything Conjurer had the makings of both a WHM and a BLM because of their access to all elemental magic as well as access to curative and buffing spells. THM on the otherhand was more of a healer/enfeebler with DD magic.

When it was noted that CON would be WHM and THM would be BLM it was pretty clear that the changes would be pretty dynamic. Now that we've seen those changes I think it's fair to say that THM can't even be considered THM anymore, it's not what the original design of THM is. Other classes still retain their identity but THM was pretty much killed and then COnjurer created a twin brother of itself and shared it's abilities with it.

In that essence I honestly don't think it's unfair to request those who have leveled x mage job to switch to another because that's the role they wanted to play. I'm sure there are some Con only that wanted to be more BLM like but now they've lost a big list of them to THM. It would be a simple remedy just to have an NPC in each town, it could easily be a Conjurerer and THM NPC standing next to one another speaking of how their methods have changed and if their are any of their bretherens that feel cheated they are able to perform a ritual to swap knowledge of their arts from one class to another. Of course because of the stress this spell has on it's target it can only be performed once so choose wisely before confirming to this change. Then a warning message would pop up such as -You can only perform this request once, You may not be on Con/THM at the time of change and must equip an Arm from any other class, Once the change has taken place you will no longer have knowledge of the abilities you have learned from that level- Then after confirming the levels swap and everybody is happy.


But ya, perhaps some news will be mentioned as to how they will handle the extreme changes made, perhaps they'll just apologize to those who thought they would play x role but are now unable to but who knows lol.

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Those are some good points. I'm not agreeing about a dude changing classes' level beause this would be a nonsense (just think about the effects of leveling up/down would have to your character)...but i do think they should think a bit about those players who have only one class leveled.

Also, people love using that first poll as excuse for every mess this dev team do, w/o thinking about how malicious it was...those who voted "no" might actually be the ones that thought a s#!t like this could happen...

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Originally Posted by Airget

When it was noted that CON would be WHM and THM would be BLM it was pretty clear that the changes would be pretty dynamic. Now that we've seen those changes I think it's fair to say that THM can't even be considered THM anymore, it's not what the original design of THM is.

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The original design for THM was clear in the job description, (i.e. master of destruction, moreso than even the disciples of War). It just wasnt implemented as intended, (it was overpowered as healer & in survivability) and took a long time to be fully rebalanced, due to other, higher priority fixes. Guess what? It is now almost fully rebalanced to reflect that original job decription.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

The original design for THM was clear in the job description, (i.e. master of destruction, moreso than even the disciples of War). It just wasnt implemented as intended, (it was overpowered as healer & in survivability) and took a long time to be fully rebalanced, due to other, higher priority fixes. Guess what? It is now almost fully rebalanced to reflect that original job decription.

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Yeah I don't really get how people thought that a class who's only healing abilities were a "regen" over straight up "cure" (a white mage ability...) was somehow going to be the main healer. It didn't have any of the abilities that are normally given to white mage, and the only reason the THM was a better healer was because of cone AoE vs. CNJ's donut AoE.

I guess I just don't see how people thought that SE intended for THM to be the main healer based on its spell pool. It didn't have the buffs, it didn't have the cures, and it didn't have the -na spells. All it had was cone AoE and Sacrifice - which was just an easily exploitable combo.

'S kinda why I don't buy it when people claim that they thought that THM would be main healer. You'd have to be blind to look at the two spell lists and say "well THM is CLEARLY the white mage here". A more reasonable explanation is that people leveled THM because its cone AoE and Sacrifice made it more desired in parties at the time, and now they feel burned because they spent all of that time leveling what the player base considered a better healer, over what actually was supposed to be the healing class.

I admit that as Gladiator early on, having THM ranked up was a huge advantage because of emulate. Then it was nerfed. Because it was overpowered. After that, I took a more balanced approach to what I leveled for support classes.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

The original design for THM was clear in the job description, (i.e. master of destruction, moreso than even the disciples of War). It just wasnt implemented as intended, (it was overpowered as healer & in survivability) and took a long time to be fully rebalanced, due to other, higher priority fixes. Guess what? It is now almost fully rebalanced to reflect that original job decription.

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Given that shortly after release, Sacrifice was specifically buffed to heal more on the initial cast, it would seem that the original vision for THM (as a healer) is what existed prior to 1.18.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

I guess I just don't see how people thought that SE intended for THM to be the main healer based on its spell pool. It didn't have the buffs, it didn't have the cures, and it didn't have the -na spells. All it had was cone AoE and Sacrifice - which was just an easily exploitable combo.

'S kinda why I don't buy it when people claim that they thought that THM would be main healer.

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So then, when you saw CNJ's spell list of full elemental nuke lines (along with ancient magic nukes), you thought it was clear that CNJ absolutely would not be BLM?

It wasn't obvious either way. Both classes had aspects of different traditional FF jobs. CNJ could have been BLM just as easily as they were made WHM.

Just quit.