Ifirit, how it could have been done better.

I don't really like the OP's idea, but I don't like the current, or past systems either. I am a typical run-of-the-mill, ex-hardcore MMO player. Back in high school I could run things all day every day, I had no bills or family that cared, etc. Now, I want to log in, experience content, get a reward for experiencing such content, be happy, and do more content a little later because the reward I got the first time made me want to come back for more. This is typically how it works with MMORPGs and raiding.

I'm going to use WoW as an example and I know 9/10 people will disregard everything I say because of it, but you are the minority so get over yourself. In WoW, there is ALWAYS a reward for doing content, whether it is in the forum of currency (gold drops), reputation (which leads to loot vendors over time), and drops on top of all of that. In addition, this content is designed around multiple tiers of bosses where you don't go go kill a boss and that was your chance at loot for the week. You kill several bosses and have several chances. And the bosses always drop something, so even if it's not for you, you still see all the people around you getting phat loot, I would also consider that a reward as well.

The last time I logged into XIV, I did Ifrit for the first time. I spent I believe 2 full sessions (total of 10-15 hours). This is the equivalent to an entire raid week in WoW, perhaps more. What did I get? Absolutely nothing, no currency, no rep, nothing. Over the course of all of this time, my groups saw less than 5 total weapons drop. I did get a drop, but it was the PGL weapon, one of the only 2 classes I haven't leveled yet. And I saw it drop twice. I haven't logged on since.

The system in place right now (even after a need/greed system) is lackluster when compared to competition. If SE wants me to come back (and pay a monthly fee...) before 2.0, they need to design better content, because not only does the loot system suck, but the entire system of content in this game is completely shallow. There's nothing to it but a boss and a chest, which may or may not have anything in it at all.

My suggestion would just be adopt a standard MMORPG loot system. One person opens chest, it has a random number of 2-4 (4 being VERY rare, 2 being most common) weapons, doubles can drop, but at least you get something every time. In addition, they should add something else, maybe a token that drops every kill. So let's say you kill him 50 times and you still don't have that 1 weapon you really wanted, you could take it to your company vendor and exchange the 50 tokens for that weapon you never got.

Sure, some people might get weapons a little faster/easier, but MMORPG's shouldn't be so brutal when it comes to drops.

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Originally Posted by Ava

I don't really like the OP's idea, but I don't like the current, or past systems either. I am a typical run-of-the-mill, ex-hardcore MMO player. Back in high school I could run things all day every day, I had no bills or family that cared, etc. Now, I want to log in, experience content, get a reward for experiencing such content, be happy, and do more content a little later because the reward I got the first time made me want to come back for more. This is typically how it works with MMORPGs and raiding.

I'm going to use WoW as an example and I know 9/10 people will disregard everything I say because of it, but you are the minority so get over yourself. In WoW, there is ALWAYS a reward for doing content, whether it is in the forum of currency (gold drops), reputation (which leads to loot vendors over time), and drops on top of all of that. In addition, this content is designed around multiple tiers of bosses where you don't go go kill a boss and that was your chance at loot for the week. You kill several bosses and have several chances. And the bosses always drop something, so even if it's not for you, you still see all the people around you getting phat loot, I would also consider that a reward as well.

The last time I logged into XIV, I did Ifrit for the first time. I spent I believe 2 full sessions (total of 10-15 hours). This is the equivalent to an entire raid week in WoW, perhaps more. What did I get? Absolutely nothing, no currency, no rep, nothing. Over the course of all of this time, my groups saw less than 5 total weapons drop. I did get a drop, but it was the PGL weapon, one of the only 2 classes I haven't leveled yet. And I saw it drop twice. I haven't logged on since.

The system in place right now (even after a need/greed system) is lackluster when compared to competition. If SE wants me to come back (and pay a monthly fee...) before 2.0, they need to design better content, because not only does the loot system suck, but the entire system of content in this game is completely shallow. There's nothing to it but a boss and a chest, which may or may not have anything in it at all.

My suggestion would just be adopt a standard MMORPG loot system. One person opens chest, it has a random number of 2-4 (4 being VERY rare, 2 being most common) weapons, doubles can drop, but at least you get something every time. In addition, they should add something else, maybe a token that drops every kill. So let's say you kill him 50 times and you still don't have that 1 weapon you really wanted, you could take it to your company vendor and exchange the 50 tokens for that weapon you never got.

Sure, some people might get weapons a little faster/easier, but MMORPG's shouldn't be so brutal when it comes to drops.

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WoW also has a lockout.. I'd rather do Ifrit 100 times a week than 1 time for a guaranteed drop.

10 - 15 hours doing Ifrit and only saw 5 items? I'm guessing you wiped a lot or had breaks. We see a drop pretty much every other run, though sometimes not at all for a few runs, then back to back for several runs. Duplicates are the only issue I have.

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Originally Posted by RemVye

WoW also has a lockout.. I'd rather do Ifrit 100 times a week than 1 time for a guaranteed drop.

10 - 15 hours doing Ifrit and only saw 5 items? I'm guessing you wiped a lot or had breaks. We see a drop pretty much every other run, though sometimes not at all for a few runs, then back to back for several runs. Duplicates are the only issue I have.

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We did around 6-7 hours solid no wipes at all, the second group had a hard time and we wiped some, yes. I'm not exactly sure how many drops we had, but only 2 people actually got "new" drops. A sword and my fists. I assumed the number ~5-6 considering the rate at which others were seeing drops, but they were likely all duplicates.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make mentioning lockouts. (Let me elaborate). Are you arguing that SE should appeal to the audience of people that want to do 100 Ifrits in a week? Good luck getting those monthly fees from people lol.

I don't enjoy crafting at all. No matter how easy, rewarding, and fun they make it, it's just not for me. I don't want a game that's going to heavily rely on me nagging crafters to make stuff for me. Materia was a pain already, let's not add much more to it.

WTB Ifrit's Shield. For gladiator of course :) Maybe it would have stats (Actually blocks+500) on it.

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Originally Posted by Ava

We did around 6-7 hours solid no wipes at all, the second group had a hard time and we wiped some, yes. I'm not exactly sure how many drops we had, but only 2 people actually got "new" drops. A sword and my fists. I assumed the number ~5-6 considering the rate at which others were seeing drops, but they were likely all duplicates.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make mentioning lockouts. (Let me elaborate). Are you arguing that SE should appeal to the audience of people that want to do 100 Ifrits in a week? Good luck getting those monthly fees from people lol.

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Are you trying to say they should appeal to the audience of people that want to log in for one night a week beat the newest instance / boss and then log on next week?

I'm really not saying anything.. for myself, the fight is fun - albeit a little too easy at this point but still fun. I personally would rather do 100 Ifrit fights than 1 and be locked out.

Edit: Oh and even in WoW's lockout system you might not get your drop. You could get the same drops for weeks on end. So I would def rather try my luck at 500 Ifrit attempts in a month than 4 chances at my drop in WoW.

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Originally Posted by RemVye

Are you trying to say they should appeal to the audience of people that want to log in for one night a week beat the newest instance / boss and then log on next week?

I'm really not saying anything.. for myself, the fight is fun - albeit a little too easy at this point but still fun. I personally would rather do 100 Ifrit fights than 1 and be locked out.

Edit: Oh and even in WoW's lockout system you might not get your drop. You could get the same drops for weeks on end. So I would def rather try my luck at 500 Ifrit attempts in a month than 4 chances at my drop in WoW.

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That's exactly what I'm saying. Those people's monthly fee is worth just as much as yours, and there are more of them than you. Hence why WoW, Rift, and soon to be SWTOR are among the only widely successful MMORPGs. They appeal to that very crowd - the majority. Now, of course, they can't ignore the group that wants to do Ifrit 100 times in one week, so they should still provide hardcore content, but it should come AFTER the casual content because the casuals will bring in the $$$.

Edit: An example of making Ifrit both casual and hardcore without removing the "uniqueness" from the game (crafters wont be happy but this is just an off-the-top-of-my-head suggestion) would be to use the token idea I mentioned above and instead of buying weapons, perhaps you can use the tokens to "unlock" the weapons and allow you to apply materia to them. They could maybe incorporate crafters in with it by using an enchantment type system but I don't think the UI could support that right now. Either way, they don't need to segregate the casuals and hardcores, just make the content multi-tiered so casuals can do it and get stuff, but hardcores can do it and get even more/better stuff.

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Originally Posted by Ava

That's exactly what I'm saying. Those people's monthly fee is worth just as much as yours, and there are more of them than you. Hence why WoW, Rift, and soon to be SWTOR are among the only widely successful MMORPGs. They appeal to that very crowd - the majority. Now, of course, they can't ignore the group that wants to do Ifrit 100 times in one week, so they should still provide hardcore content, but it should come AFTER the casual content because the casuals will bring in the $$$.

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Ok that 100 times was an exaggeration, so let's drop that. You're starting to make it sound like its necessary; which it's not. You have just as much chance to get your drop on the first attempt as you do in WoW on your first attempt.

Don't think that I'm ignorant enough to believe WoW is unsuccessful, but the fact is that game is dying. RIFT has a crowd but it's basically WoW 2.0 with slight variation and most people I've heard said it's the same thing (I thought it was identical as soon as I played for 2 minutes in the beta. Beta for 4 hours was all I had played that though.) As for SWToR... who knows how that's going to fair, it's got a lot of copies pre-ordered but you never know.

Ifrit is casual, you just have the OPTION to do it as many times as you like. Luck can be on your side and you get all the drops in 7 runs... or against you and it takes 150+.

We all know there is a problem with the loot distribution, but making an auto drop + lockout system would be donkey sh*t in my opinion. Locking people out of the limited content that exists would be playerbase suicide, in my most humble opinion.

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Originally Posted by RemVye

Ok that 100 times was an exaggeration, so let's drop that. You're starting to make it sound like its necessary; which it's not. You have just as much chance to get your drop on the first attempt as you do in WoW on your first attempt.

Don't think that I'm ignorant enough to believe WoW is unsuccessful, but the fact is that game is dying. RIFT has a crowd but it's basically WoW 2.0 with slight variation and most people I've heard said it's the same thing (I thought it was identical as soon as I played for 2 minutes in the beta. Beta for 4 hours was all I had played that though.) As for SWToR... who knows how that's going to fair, it's got a lot of copies pre-ordered but you never know.

Ifrit is casual, you just have the OPTION to do it as many times as you like. Luck can be on your side and you get all the drops in 7 runs... or against you and it takes 150+.

We all know there is a problem with the loot distribution, but making an auto drop + lockout system would be donkey sh*t in my opinion. Locking people out of the limited content that exists would be playerbase suicide, in my most humble opinion.

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The Logic Train has a new conductor today.

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Locking people out of the limited content that exists would be playerbase suicide, in my most humble opinion.

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Yup, very common sense. The simple solution is to make drops rarer and lottable/whatever. An LS should be able to sort it out amongst themselves. That way the player base stays and people get to feel like special snowflakes again, everyone is happy.