Why does Clemency get interrupted? And why does Sword/Shield Oath reset combo?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

What nonsense is that ?

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I'll reword just for you Reynhart!
To avoid a dps penalty via a combo break, PLD needs to anticipate a max of 3 cooldowns. If you don't bother with anticipating, you *might* take a dps hit from a combo break.

This is as opposed to warrior who needs to anticipate a max of 8 cooldowns in advance to avoid a dps loss, or potentially death from a mitigation loss.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Stuff

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Since this post is more oriented to players as a whole than tanking, I'd like to add most jobs got more complex than before and small, split-second mistakes can be very punishing for some (Enochian, BotD, DWT), where an error can lead to pretty substantial DPS losses. On top of that, a 100% scripted, time-lined borefest that needs to be executed pretty perfectly (90% with plenty of critical points would come close to perfect, and most people consider Alexander Savage to be exactly this as far as I can tell) is a recipe for disaster and at that point the main attribute contributing to performance isn't really being fast and furious, but rather being diligent and steadfast. Now you'd need 8 people to be able to do that + not have dumb stuff like lag or whatever occur (yes, even in 2015 and soon 2016 this stuff still plagues us).

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Originally Posted by winsock

To avoid a dps penalty via a combo break, PLD needs to anticipate a max of 3 cooldowns. If you don't bother with anticipating, you *might* take a dps hit from a combo break.

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Ok, then let me explain.
By switching to Sword Oath and switching back to Shield Oath, you "waste" 2 GCD for 0 damage. So, in order to gain DPS from stance dancing, you need time to do at least 2 full combos before switching back.
Which means...oh, look, 8 GCDs.

And Defiance is still offering its most useful benefit even after you take a hit, by increasing cure received. It means that PLD is more penalized for being in the wrong stance when the hit occurs.

Only get the Shield Oath "off" is not better realy to swap for only 2 full combo ?
sword oat only buff the auto attack , right ?

it's right the war can buff heal so, what he loose by swaping he get it by heal before swaping again, actualy i use only bloodbath myself, buffed with berserk, i tested, i got healed for at least 10K hp in delivrance, tank to the triple felt cleave. (the synergy of the skill)

A pld can do the trick by using fight on flight, blood bath but... you will heal 3K5 to 4k5 ... it's hard to compensate the loss of defence with kill a other defence CD when you want to swap with the PLD, so i don't play pld enough atm, so i can't figure myself if i would i will raid with my pld, can i count to kill one CD+bloodbath+fight on flight to dps ?
The CD from PLD is also often long cooldown.

the OP also tell :why the pld get interupted when casting Clemency: the cast of magic in this game always get interupted by heavy damage, i don't know personaly the minimum damage a pld have to take to get interupted someone know ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Ok, then let me explain.
By switching to Sword Oath and switching back to Shield Oath, you "waste" 2 GCD for 0 damage. So, in order to gain DPS from stance dancing, you need time to do at least 2 full combos before switching back.
Which means...oh, look, 8 GCDs.

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You're off topic. You're arguing on vs off gcd
I was talking about the effect of the stance change resetting the combo...
you know.. like... the thread title..
That is why you're confused.
It's 3 tops

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Originally Posted by winsock

I was talking about the effect of the stance change resetting the combo...

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No. The fact that stance dance breaks combo is exactly why you need to do 2 full combos before switching back.

For example, let's take a RoH combo and a fast blade, for a total of 4 GCD. In ShO, you get, potency-wise : (150+200+260+150)*0.8 = 608 potency
Now, if you SwO just after the first Fast Blade, you get 150*0.8+0+200+260+100 from 2 AA in SwO = 680 potency

If you have to put back Shield Oath, you'd need about 7 GCD to still gain DPS by stance dancing, while still switching back to Shield Oath mid-combo.

If I were to argue only about the GCD vs OffGCD, I would have said that by "wasting" 2 GCD, you'd also let Goring Blade and/or Strength down wear off, thus losing either some damage or some mitigation...or both.

I think this entire comparison is incredibly unfair to PLD. As someone that plays both WAR and PLD, you basically took the non-existent, "I'm not playing my class correctly," scenario for WAR.

The normal scenario is you FC after a Heavy Swing or in the middle of Maim / SE / SP / SS / BB. You should never be FCing before a HS. If you're planning to mitigate an incoming tank buster, that means you will probably be using Vengeance which grants 1 stack. You also have Raw Intuition, Berserk, and Infuriate. So, if you FC at a bad time, it takes you a minimum of 0 GCDs to IB. Without Infuriate, it takes you a minimum of 2 GCDs. With just Berserk, RI or Vengeance, it takes you 5-6 GCDs. At most, it's 7 GCDs, never 8.

TBF, using some of those CDs to cover for a mistake is a DPS loss, too.

On PLD, you always need to plan ahead by 3 GCDs (the 3 combo GCDs) to not break a combo. If we're talking strictly about DPS loss, it's much more punishing than WAR. Losing a GCD while in ShO is something like a ~200 potency loss. Losing a GCD while in SwO is something like a ~300 potency loss. SwO is something like a ~100 potency gain per combo GCD. I think the gain in oGCDs is something like ~15 potency per GCD. You need to make up for ~500 lost potency through SwO uptime when stance dancing. To put that in perspective, if you somehow mess up so badly that you don't spend a single GCD in SwO, you basically just lost a Fell Cleave worth of potency.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

snip

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No, we're not talking about the same thing.
You're talking about the minimum commitment in order for a stance change to be worth it, I'm talking about avoiding dps loss from a combo break. Minimum commitment is a conversation to compare WAR stance cooldowns.

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the weird thing, is Tank pos swap on War is CD, and on Dark/PLD it's GCD. GCD cancel combo but
Inner beast is GCD but it don't cancel combo.
It's a weird logic. Nobody can understand why...
I think also if the PLD should be the best denfense Tank, it can be true but the difference is maybe a little too light. because against magic the defense advantage is killed.
it make actualy a good comp to be WAR/PLD against physic boss, and War/dark against magic boss

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Originally Posted by kensatsu

the weird thing, is Tank pos swap on War is CD, and on Dark/PLD it's GCD. GCD cancel combo but Inner beast is GCD but it don't cancel combo.

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Flash doesn't, Unleash doesn't, Clemency does...

It's obvious they pick that at random...