Why I have no interest in Coils more specifically, T9.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Because despite whinging about the game's scripted battle and begging for dynamic mechanics, people can't handle either. Either they're delusional or hypocritical. Easy example is stone vigil hard's last boss. It's basically a super lenient dual Rajang fight. All you need to do is constantly position yourself out of the first boss's way while constantly keeping an eye of the 2nd boss. I've done ALOT of solo queues on this dungeon when it's still on extreme roulette and the majority of the players cant handle this fight without getting slapped around. Of course, since they're not actually lethal, you can have the healer to fix all of these players' mistakes.

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That's actually a good point, but noobs will be noobs..
I've seen my fair share of ineptitude in pve contents, and I think that comes from the fact that majority of the player base in FF14 is not your typical mmo crowd, and the console players also contribute to the pool as well. I'm not saying that console players are noobs, but if you see somebody who can't turn their characters around and move at the same time (Unfortunately, I've had to see tanks like this close to lv 50) you know they're not playing on a keyboard and mouse..

But, I think the game still needs 2 different approaches to going about providing difficulty in pve. Raids and dungeons should be different in nature, but in this game, they are not. Because the core mechanics all rely on the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Ayrie

I'm curious as to your definition of skill. It seems maybe you are confusing it with talent.

Do you honestly believe a major league slugger was just born like that? Or does the hours upon days of learning from failure (striking out) impact his play?

Success is when the product of your skill and talent exceed a threshold defined by the task. You need both. Skill as a word is closer to experience.

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It's the difference between being a strategist vs. a fighter. I feel like in this game, we just become better at strategizing, not the actual fighting part. Not even a legitimate strategy at that, I feel like we're constantly finding loopholes to make the boss mechanics null, almost like finding exploits. It just isn't much fun when every fight pans out the same way.

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Originally Posted by Lilyarel

Before anyone says "You cant take a challenge" Allow me to say I do enjoy a challenge.

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If you go in the o`re `der T9 and dun get yourself vote kicked out as dps by them local fellas`, den ya`llrdy past the challenge and from then on errbody will respect ya cos they know if you in they town , then you means trouble. And nobody aint want no trouble

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

For one, WoD came out AFTER T9 did, WoD came out after T13 did. So that complaint isnt really valid. Also, you originally had to have a premade party to even enter coil, as you do with the current raid. They weren't even IN DF to begin with.

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But they are on Duty Finder now, just like World of Darkness and Keeper of the Lake. So why shouldn't we expect the difficulty to remain consistent with other content on Duty Finder? Do you see the word (Hardcore) next to the area names in the opening cinematic for Coil Turns? The text in-game makes no effort to distinguish the mechanical difficulty between "Crystal Tower" raid or "Binding Coil" raids.

The fact toxic elitists like to treat those who haven't cleared T5/T9 with contempt or condescendingly claim Coil is "easy" only makes this much worse.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

But they are on Duty Finder now, just like World of Darkness and Keeper of the Lake. So why shouldn't we expect the difficulty to remain consistent with other content on Duty Finder? Do you see the word (Hardcore) next to the area names in the opening cinematic for Coil Turns? The text in-game makes no effort to distinguish the mechanical difficulty between "Crystal Tower" raid or "Binding Coil" raids.

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Why SHOULD we expect the difficulty to be in line with stuff DESIGNED to be easier than it just because it's accessible from the same spot? The text makes no effort to distinguish the difficulty because it doesn't need to. The first set of turns is easy enough, but raises enough warning flags to tell people to stay away from them if they don't want to dive head-first into raiding. Besides, there's always other, you know, people to talk to about it.

While I disagree with the OP about skill not being repetition (as a memorization is a skill) I do agree that the Coils and the players who do them regularly are a big problem with the game. This is a bit off topic but here are two reasons why Coil levels are terrible:


1) It breeds elitist players (I can take a picture on my computer of the PF at any given time 9 times out of the 10 the PF is filled with players wanting to do FCoB but with really derogatory messages about new players wanting to do that content, this imo is unacceptable. Not that they are not willing to take on new players, but the language in which they are using to say it (granted its not filled with curse words and the like but if a new player were to read them they ask themselves why am I playing this if all the veteran players appear to be this way') Now I'm not saying that all veteran players are like this, HOWEVER its a matter of perception, the New Player(s) will perceive the end game community to be vastly unfriendly, a problem that will hurt the MMO in the long haul, all created by the veteran player base.

2) Certain Coils basically require some form of audible chat software (TeamSpeak, Ventrillo, Mumble, etc). Because how quickly some of these phases/move cycles go its really hard to speak via typing to player who are new, which in turn discourages veteran players from wanting to play with new players because it would be too much of a task to ensure then knew what was going on/going to happen. Voice Chat software fixes this problem, however we are playing a game that is split onto three different platforms, Playstation 3, Playstation 4 and PC. Now I know that you can get these chat software options in the form of phone apps, but that is not the point of this matter. The point is that players are basically being forced to use outside software to complete content. IMO, that is a sign of poor game design, both from lack of offering the voice chat option within the game and from designing content where voice chat is almost mandatory when its not an option built into the client software.

Those are my gripes, skill is definitely involved with Coil runs, as memorization is a skill. One that many people are not very good at.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

But they are on Duty Finder now, just like World of Darkness and Keeper of the Lake. So why shouldn't we expect the difficulty to remain consistent with other content on Duty Finder? Do you see the word (Hardcore) next to the area names in the opening cinematic for Coil Turns? The text in-game makes no effort to distinguish the mechanical difficulty between "Crystal Tower" raid or "Binding Coil" raids.

The fact toxic elitists like to treat those who haven't cleared T5/T9 with contempt or condescendingly claim Coil is "easy" only makes this much worse.

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You know something is wrong with both the community and the duty finder when people assume if its on the DF it should be easy and free loot.
As for "Toxic elitist" in this game, some elitist are mostly mean because they are sick of bad players trying to get the only 4 hard boss in the game nerfed because literally the rest of the game is not enough for you.
Believe it or not, but not everyone is part of the facebook generation. There are still humans out there who enjoy overcoming challenges instead of waiting to be spoonfed.

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Originally Posted by hallena

You know something is wrong with both the community and the duty finder when people assume if its on the DF it should be easy and free loot.
As for "Toxic elitist" in this game, some elitist are mostly mean because they are sick of bad players trying to get the only 4 hard boss in the game nerfed because literally the rest of the game is not enough for you.

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That's how they set up the game. Everything besides Coil is very casual and welcoming. How can you condemn us for expecting the game to be consistent? Thank you at least for demonstrating how Coil is creating a toxic atmosphere in this game.

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Originally Posted by hallena

As for "Toxic elitist" in this game, some elitist are mostly mean because they are sick of bad players trying to get the only 4 hard boss in the game nerfed because literally the rest of the game is not enough

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So, let me get this straight, you are stating that there are players who are jerks to others in-game because they are upset that some random person on the Internet went to SE's forum and asked for something to be made easier?

Really?

I mean, really?

Holy crap, talk about a razor thin justification for poor behavior.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

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1) As someone steeped in raid content, I'm gonna say that those are probably the people you wouldn't want to play with anyway. For every person that does that there's probably more in FCs willing to help new people through most content (though they're not quite as likely to extend their help through PF).
2) While VOIP is highly helpful, it's really not needed for Coil at all, provided everyone in the group is highly attentive (which is usually not the case, hence many people making it a requirement for their groups). For most stuff, macros can be used to get something across to other players much faster than just typing it out. (Besides, we're talking high-tier endgame raiding here, it's supposed to require coordination. You'll be hard-pressed to find a cutting edge raid group on any MMO that doesn't make use of voice chat.)

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

That's how they set up the game. Everything besides Coil is very casual and welcoming. How can you condemn us for expecting the game to be consistent?

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So what you're saying is that there should be NO hardcore content whatsoever, or if they do they have to put up warning signs saying "HEY LOOK AT THIS HARD CONTENT DON'T COME CLOSE" at every mention of that content? I would hope that people can think enough so SE wouldn't have to resort to that to get some message across. Item level requirements for Second Coil Turns 3 and 4 are higher than any other instance in the game, that should say enough.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

That's how they set up the game. Everything besides Coil is very casual and welcoming.

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And you're right. So stay away from coil if you can't handle it and stop trying to get it nerfed

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So, let me get this straight, you are stating that there are players who are jerks to others in-game because they are upset that some random person on the Internet went to SE's forum and asked for something to be made easier?

Really?

I mean, really?

Holy crap, talk about a razor thin justification for poor behavior.

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Nobody would be upset if SE didn't listen to people crying. Numerous things has been nerfed because "it's too hard ;_;"