[dev1032] PUG skills singled out.

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Originally Posted by Akuun

If it's manageable then why are you making it an issue?
There are and have been plenty of costs that make little sense to us, and have yet to be explained.

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So what's the harm in asking, again? Truth is PGL is the only class with MP values on TP gaining attacks. It doesn't make sense to me. Maybe someone in the battle design fell asleep on his keyboard and punched in some numbers accidentally-- who knows?!

You're not so much helping my thread directly by answering my question or making conjectures as to why this is. What I've heard out of you is:

1. Learn to play.
2. They don't matter.
3. I am misinterpreting your intentions.

Just let me ask the question, maybe someday some developer will actually look at them spend 20 seconds to write a 2 sentence answer. I can hope.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I think it's supposed to work that way but I don't believe it does. Also isn't Parry DEX based? Until the stats work and we have per-class point allotment there's not a lot fixing this. If you're talking to me my Mind is so high because I do occasionally play mage classes and at least like to have a decent MP pool.

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Understandable about the mnd, I'm waiting for 1.19 to finish off my thaum due to the new dungeons needing more focus on the class that's being used to run efficiently.

Why create a new thread when this one has basically turned into just that? We don't need more needless threads and this one addresses the issue well enough to justify continuing the debate here.

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Originally Posted by Akuun

If it's manageable then why are you making it an issue?
There are and have been plenty of costs that make little sense to us, and have yet to be explained.




I don't know about it being entirely based on dex, I'm pretty sure that our weapons play some part.
As for dex it's the parry rate, on that I agree.
Dexterity (DEX)
Increases accuracy of physical attacks
Increases chances of evading physical attacks
Increases critical hit rate of physical attacks and resulting damage
Increases parry rate for certain weapons

But from what I and others have seen and tested, str does impact how much damage goes through on a partial parry.
Much the same as it does on shield blocking, since pugilist can't fully parry attacks.
By the way, other classes can fully parry attacks, even archer, but I don't see anyone complaining. ^^

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just because something is manageable doesnt mean it makes sense. Having asthma is manageable, it doesnt mean it has no effect.

The point is what is the reason we pay mp for 2 out of 3 basic attacks, how does it make sense for pugilist who has no mp abilities. And no mechanics around mp to pay mp for basic skills, are they too great in use? i would say no. light strike is the only thing that makes us any better at dodging then a gladiator. And honestly id be interested in finding out if pugilist even does more DD than a DD equed/stated gladiator.


the point is, there is no reason for us to pay mp, when other classes dont, there is nothing inherently better about our skills, especially when you consider that marauder has steadfast at all times, and lancer has speed surge as a job exclusive ability. the defining point of pugilist was light strike and the flurry mechanic, flurry is gone, and light strike can only exist for 1/3rd the time, and it now it has mp cost.

pummel is totally illogical since full thrust does the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Akuun

Understandable about the mnd, I'm waiting for 1.19 to finish off my thaum due to the new dungeons needing more focus on the class that's being used to run efficiently.


As I said before, I think it would be better to create a thread that asks this question, instead of joining one that cries about pugilist being singled out.

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Crying?

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Originally Posted by hotah

I was curious as to why Light Strike and Pummel requires 10 and 20 mana respectively, while the other DoW classes have no such resource requirement.

Light Stab (increase accuracy)
Heavy Stab (increase enmity)
Heavy Slash (increase enmity)

Broad Swing (conal attack)
Heavy Swing --
Full Swing (conal attack, increase enmity)

Multishot (extra shot, 15 seconds)
Heavy Shot (reduces target TP)

Heavy Thrust (bind)
Pierce (damages enemies in line)
Full Thrust --

Light Strike (increase evasion and physical defense) 10 MP
Pummel -- 20 MP
Flurry (extra attack)

What justifies it?

edit: archer skills

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Here, I color-coded it.

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Originally Posted by Akuun

Understandable about the mnd, I'm waiting for 1.19 to finish off my thaum due to the new dungeons needing more focus on the class that's being used to run efficiently.

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it sounds like crying but it is completely accurate.

1 job out of every single job that is out has been assigned an mp cost for basic skills (even mages dont have mp costs on basic skills if i rem correctly)

pugilist has been singled out and chosen to bear an additional cost mechanic to basic attacks, that cost is mp. The question is, why? and does it make any sense?

Sorry, edited my post about starting a new thread, saw so many posts of people just simply complaining, I had to read the OP again to see it was very reasonably put, my humble apologies Hotah.

Here is my view on the full thrust versus pummel
Lancer is the "TP whore" (my words) of this game, pummel does the exact same thing, I believe the mp cost may simply be the devs way of offsetting this now that LNC doesn't have the stamina edge it had before with speed surge
(basically speed surge gave them the upper hand due to the higher stamina cost of the 2 actions, but this is just my guess)
As for light strike, it's damn good, but I don't have a clue as to the possible thought process of adding MP cost.

I still stand by the idea that even with base mnd, that these small costs shouldn't be an issue for anyone.

Thanks, no hard feelings here. I also apologize for getting so defensive.

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Originally Posted by Akuun

Sorry, edited my post about starting a new thread, saw so many posts of people just simply complaining, I had to read the OP again to see it was very reasonably put, my humble apologies Hotah.

Here is my view on the full thrust versus pummel
Lancer is the "TP whore" (my words) of this game, pummel does the exact same thing, I believe the mp cost may simply be the devs way of offsetting this now that LNC doesn't have the stamina edge it had before with speed surge
(basically speed surge gave them the upper hand due to the higher stamina cost of the 2 actions, but this is just my guess)
As for light strike, it's damn good, but I don't have a clue as to the possible thought process of adding MP cost.

I still stand by the idea that even with base mnd, that these small costs shouldn't be an issue for anyone.

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speed surge is still a huge boost, the game is about tp whoring now, and they get tp faster than anyone, i wouldnt be surprised if when the dust settles they find out lnc is the king of DD now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akuun

Sorry, edited my post about starting a new thread, saw so many posts of people just simply complaining, I had to read the OP again to see it was very reasonably put, my humble apologies Hotah.

Here is my view on the full thrust versus pummel
Lancer is the "TP whore" (my words) of this game, pummel does the exact same thing, I believe the mp cost may simply be the devs way of offsetting this now that LNC doesn't have the stamina edge it had before with speed surge
(basically speed surge gave them the upper hand due to the higher stamina cost of the 2 actions, but this is just my guess)
As for light strike, it's damn good, but I don't have a clue as to the possible thought process of adding MP cost.

I still stand by the idea that even with base mnd, that these small costs shouldn't be an issue for anyone.

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Pummel does more damage and generates less TP than Full Thrust. It is already inherently different for PGL than for LNC - the LNC one is better.

Making Pummel Cost more MP than an elemental WS, and a handful of spells/buffs is just silly. It does nothing to merit an MP cost.