Tank disrespect.

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Originally Posted by AlexPayne

Examples:

1. During the mad dash, there are some straggling mobs that don't immediately clump at the killzone. A BLM uses AoE, hitting a couple that arrive a split second too late, and they rush to him. Tank blames BLM. BLM blames tank.

2. Healer likes to sleep mobs. SMN likes to use Bane. Neither knows what the other is planning, so DoTs get Baned onto a sleeping mob or two, and wakes them up. SMN blames WHM, WHM blames SMN.

3. Tank isn't all that geared or experienced, and is trying to improve. Synced SCH just goes full DPS, letting Eos heal, which is overpowered for, say, Satasha, so Eos keeps getting smacked. SCH blames tank, tank blames SCH.

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It's obviously the Healers fault, not keeping the BLM alive, Mezzing mobs people are attacking, and Eos is still confused on which sock goes on what foot...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexPayne

Examples:

1. During the mad dash, there are some straggling mobs that don't immediately clump at the killzone. A BLM uses AoE, hitting a couple that arrive a split second too late, and they rush to him. Tank blames BLM. BLM blames tank.

2. Healer likes to sleep mobs. SMN likes to use Bane. Neither knows what the other is planning, so DoTs get Baned onto a sleeping mob or two, and wakes them up. SMN blames WHM, WHM blames SMN.

3. Tank isn't all that geared or experienced, and is trying to improve. Synced SCH just goes full DPS, letting Eos heal, which is overpowered for, say, Satasha, so Eos keeps getting smacked. SCH blames tank, tank blames SCH.

Getting on the same page at the start would prevent a lot of drama.

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Some communication sure :D

If the Tank dies then Healers fault.
If the Healer dies then Tanks fault.
If the dps dies then their own fault.

1) Bad pulls happen, but your fireball is still your fireball. Kick dps if drama.
2) Solved by communication. Kick dps if drama.
3) No Death, no Foul. If Scholar dies Tanks fault. If Eos dies re-summon. Abandon if drama.

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Originally Posted by Ceodore

I would like to point out at this point to any DPS that might see this. DPS are a dime a dozen. There is no composition requirements for any of the regular dungeons. YOU DO NOT run the raid. YOU DO NOT call the shots. YOU DO NOT make the rules. YOU ARE NOT special. In fact, YOU ARE as replaceable as a 50 cent light bulb. "We had another DPS within a minute of two" About the time it takes to replace a light bulb. DPS learn to not focus on one target, watch your enmity meters, the tab button is there not just so you can switch from one dead mobs to a live one, your DOTs do more damage when they are on more than one mob at a time, your AOE is generally worth more when there are 3+ mobs, and your healer has enough on their plate healing the tank, they don't need your dumb ass taking aggro and taking damage, so watch yourself before you wreck yourself. Your armor is paper thin and your HP is next to worthless compared to those of us tanks that actually are built for taking damage, so either learn your place or my healer (Who is not the person I quoted above, but they are a lot alike) WILL let your idiotic ass die. You aren't cool, and you aren't getting a commendation when you act stupid.

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Eh... I wouldn't go that far at all. I try not to even joke with my DPS friends that DPS are faceless and replaceable, because I don't want them to feel that way. There are people behind every one of those DPS characters, and I can't bring myself to trivialize them that way. Good DPS are extremely valuable to me. There's all kinds of ways you can be good DPS: the DRG/MNK that stuns annoying skills, the SMN that resses your healer, the BLM that knows when to toss an Apocastasis on the tank, heck even just knowing when to back off and let the tank establish control or taking the initiative to pull an add off the healer so they can stop kiting and make with the healy-goodness. Yes, bad DPS are annoying and disruptive, but so are bad tanks and bad healers. It has nothing to do with the role that they're in and everything to do with just plain having a bad player in your party.

In the early dungeons, anyone basically CAN tank as long as the healer is paying attention. Those dungeons are very forgiving because they're learning tools to define your roles in the party. If the tank had been terrible, I wouldn't have minded the DRG taking the initiative to tank things; the fact is, he wasn't. The tank was doing alright and was obviously trying, so running ahead and pulling even when asked not to do it was just douchey.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ceodore

I would like to point out at this point to any DPS that might see this. DPS are a dime a dozen. There is no composition requirements for any of the regular dungeons. YOU DO NOT run the raid. YOU DO NOT call the shots. YOU DO NOT make the rules. YOU ARE NOT special. In fact, YOU ARE as replaceable as a 50 cent light bulb. "We had another DPS within a minute of two" About the time it takes to replace a light bulb.

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That's nice, well i have done dungeons before with only 2 dps and 1 healer (Haukke HM) so tanks like yourself are by no means needed. Tanks after all are easy to come by
Would actually like to see you do a dungeon without dps. Tanks that do large pulls should know how to keep agro, especially those of us black mages that use quelling strikes and give more then enough time to keep agro and yet we still get it. And when i go as summoner or Bard i do add dots to other mobs, but if you loose agro to those you really need not be a tank

I'll admit, when i run with friends, and I decide to DPS, I go all out. We've made a challenge to each other, see who can pull off the tank(we all have ilvl50+ tanks). BLM, I can do it on single targets about 70% of the time in dungeons.

when I tank, he does it right back to me as a bard, or as a healer (medica 2 spam!) it's a nice meta game, see how hard it is to keep aggro.

but in DF..or really just DF, DPSing, I make sure to give a little window to the tank, then if I pull more than twice off them, i throttle back, slow the rotation.

In DF if I tank (it was my main originally) in 8man, i better not pull off the MT, you call MT, you better hold it against me. and same for MT, if the OT pulls off me, it's time for me to step down.

It's much for people to do their roles, if you can't, then don't be that role..it's a role..playing..game.

Its been my experience that the vast majority of the time its the tanks and healers doing the crying about DPS. I've been blamed for all manner of things. Tank keeps dying? Must be the DPS! Healer died this time? Whats wrong with the DPS?! I got locked out of a battle and they healer made a dumb mistake and they even joked, "Lets just blame the DPS".

I've had to hold back my abilities because the tank couldnt keep hate and the healer kept getting murdered and they literally said the DPS isnt killing fast enough. If I'm pulling hate, its my job to scale back but anyways...thats been my experience in this game.

When it comes to the kings of excuses the list goes...

1) Tank
2) Mage
3) Melee

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Originally Posted by Maero

That's nice, well i have done dungeons before with only 2 dps and 1 healer (Haukke HM) so tanks like yourself are by no means needed. Tanks after all are easy to come by

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By the same token, most things can be done with no DPS, aside from things like Haukke HM that involve hard DPS checks (if she goes through 3 Beguiling Mist she will then eat one of your party members and Blood Rain the ever-living crap out of the rest). Try T1 with no tank sometime, though. All roles are equally needed and I really wish people would quit being so nasty about it. For every thing that doesn't require a certain role, there's one where it's absolutely necessary. Nobody is trivial, nobody is unneeded.

As far as tanks being easy to come by, tell that to my DF queues.

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Originally Posted by Jaarlask

In DF if I tank (it was my main originally) in 8man, i better not pull off the MT, you call MT, you better hold it against me. and same for MT, if the OT pulls off me, it's time for me to step down.

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I don't agree with this sentiment at all. The OT needs to know how to manage aggro so that they are second, not so that they are ripping hate off the MT and creating havoc. Sometimes (especially in things like Syrcus Tower or 8 man content) whoever wants to MT isn't the most geared tank in the party/alliance. I personally think everyone should be allowed the chance to tank things as long as they're geared appropriately for the content.

How about instances where there are tank swap mechanics? If you as OT are ripping hate in Ultima HM or Titan EX back onto you prematurely, you are dooming yourself. Managing your own aggro is part of what makes a good OT.

It is often better for the Main Tank to be the lesser geared Tank, as then the Off Tank will have a better chance of surviving an emergency Tank replacement.

A side benefit is that this can weed out those who will decide that they don't like tanking just a bit faster then playing like a melee dps with tons of health will, as happens in several fights when things go well ;)

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Originally Posted by AlexPayne

2. Healer likes to sleep mobs. SMN likes to use Bane. Neither knows what the other is planning, so DoTs get Baned onto a sleeping mob or two, and wakes them up. SMN blames WHM, WHM blames SMN.

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If sleeping mobs woke up, it was not because of Bane.

As A warrior I never have a problem with aggro, when aoe tanking I start everything off with INF + Steel Cyclone then proceed to OP + Flash from there...too easy as a warrior