The Community Is Fine - people are not perfect, neither are you

I like all the people who come in here saying FFXI's community was better, when the whole XI community thread has quite a few people who had very different experience from that both as late comers to the game, and who participated in end game. Also, I'm glad some of you weren't told to die in FFXI, because I certainly received comments like that for simply not knowing where I was suppose to go to level, how how to do things. It literally made me quit the game, as I have said before.

On the other hand, I haven't experienced that here. As far as the afkers go, this community isn't any worse than others, the difference right now is others have a vote to kick features. So if someone does this, you can boot them out. That feature is coming to XIV, but the point still stands that when that feature wasn't available in some other games, afkers were just as prevalent. In UO you would have people that griefed, same for Shadowbane, or even PvP servers in WoW. Some people have always rage quit parties if things weren't going their way, or trained mobs to kill others, or stolen spawn zones/kills. There are jerks in every single MMO and it really is no worse here. Just because you run into them more doesn't mean there are more in general. I run into less than I did in FFXI, that doesn't mean the community is better than theirs. All it means is that individual experiences are going to vary.

I still think my point from earlier stands, and it's just a mix of more people (which means more people being icky as well as more good people), so the ratio is the exact same as it's always been. Just because someone doesn't talk doesn't make them a jerk, just as a side note... additionally, just because someone doesn't talk to you when you want them to doesn't make the game worse off. I mentioned in another thread that games having more options for people, and not forcing them into one path (IE you -have- to communicate and group all of the time) is a good thing and fits more people's play style.

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Originally Posted by IamBenpi

Actually basic human psychology suggests people remember things more fondly than they actually were, hence why when people say "ffxi community was better" someone always says, "that's just nostalgia."

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http://www.livescience.com/1827-bad-...tick-good.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0828110711.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/yo...anted=all&_r=0
http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/2007...er-to-remember

That's just a few of the results that came up. People do remember negative more clearly, and it sticks out more. Positive is harder to remember, and thus the details get fuzzy which results in "nostalgia".

The fact that you can enter a four man group with three complete strangers and do whatever you like and suffer no repercussions is a problem.

You can enter a dungeon, /sit, and start insulting their presumed lineage.
You can pull a bunch of mobs, flash once, let the healer die, and leave.
You can spend 15 minutes insulting people (I've seen this. Idiot blm complaining that the tank wasn't doing enough damage. Not hate, damage. Refused to move any further in the instance.)
You can enter, run to chests, and leave.

All of this fosters a bad community.

Now do me a favor, think about it for a second and tell me what fosters a good community? I've been taking friends to AKs, after having them watch videos, and the first thing I tell them is "don't even mention that it's your first time". We've all seen what happens when you do. I've three-manned demon wall (relic bard, whm, and then-ifrit's blade PLD), but if people thing for a second that they have to do anything but run non-stop to tomes, they bail.

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Originally Posted by Ceol

What a ridiculous way to get around providing any evidence for your position. "You don't need to look up my argument, because it's correct!"

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What do you mean "you don't need to look up my argument". I suggested you /do/ look it up to see for yourself. All it takes is a quick google. For example: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0828110711.htm

Sorry, I just assumed you'd google it quickly and see for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Ceol

Not only that, but again it has nothing to do with what people are saying. It doesn't matter if players remember bad experiences more thoroughly than good experiences. What matters is that these players feel the bad experiences are too often. If someone runs through DF ten times and gets a jerk player four of those times, just because it's the minority of runs doesn't mean it's an acceptable number.

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It is an "acceptable" number because it's:

1. The vast minority
2. It's just people being people. You cannot change that.

On a case by case basis, I guess you could try to reason with the person and attempt to curb their bad attitude, but then I'm sure you've had bad days were you've been harder than you should on someone. In fact, your post here is a little hostile for no good reason which is a bit of a case in point.

Point being, not every jerk you meet in game is a full time jerk. People are not flawless, but the vast majority of people you meet will be pleasant.

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Originally Posted by Ceol

Don't make a thread on the forums if all you're going to do is ignore the arguments brought against you.

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Again, I just assumed you would do the same thing I did and google the subject. I've also studied it as part of a training course with work, and discussed it with my friend who's a psychology major. There's no way to "prove" that to you, so I'm going to have to rely on you guys doing a little research yourselves if yo're interested.

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Originally Posted by TheRac25

other mmos after dungeon: 9/10 thanks for run
arr: 9/10 nada nothing zip

you should go try other mmos before you open your mouth

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Seems the same here as in other mmorpgs. Try other mmos? Sure.

SWTOR, Everquest, Everquest 2, FF11, Warhammer Online, SWTOR, SWG, EVE, Aion, Darkfall, Mortal Online, DCUO, Anarchy Online, Age of Conan, City of Heroes/Villains, Shadow Bane, Ragnarok Online 2, Star Trek Online, Neverwinter, Champions Online, Silk Road, LOTRO, WoW, Secret World, and I'm sure I'm forgetting a few. Do I qualify in my claim that there's plenty of other communities with rotten elements? Or do I still need to play other mmorpgs first?

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Originally Posted by Cairn

JP community IS fine, but English community IS NOT fine.

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One day a JP groups with NA. NA is bad person. JP takes note. Spreads the word all NA suck.
Another day NA groups with JP. JP acts badly towards NA because of what they heard. NA spreads the word all JP suck.

See where this is going? So you bash NA for being the bad guys(but not all! so it's okay to say it!)when the JP are doing no better. So essentially, thanks to those early days of both groups being idiots and judging an entire race by a handful of bad apples, here we are. Ain't humanity grand?


It was always a bad idea to group everyone together. Was damn cool, but no one can really enjoy a MMO without the ability to communicate. The AT does an okay job but still. I'll give the Japanese credit, though. Between them and americans, they are damn sure more polite and willing to say thank you and just simply bothering to type ^^ or whatnot. So many of my fellow english speakers just cannot be bothered to waste a second typing a single word to strangers except when they are pissed that someone in their group dares foul things up. This was never the case for FFXI, though. Just for the record. Except that JP were just naturally more polite.

I'd like to give a brief official overview of the "MVP" system that was announced by Yoshida during TGS, as there is a lot of interest in how this will encourage players to be positive and helpful when using the Duty Finder.

I miss my JP friends. They are the reason our community was good in 1.0. /sad panda

More or less polite at least ppl has to be entitled to say game has a poor endgame design, not about content atm cuz it's new but the direction it's doing wrong if they take the game like a clone themepark mechanics so stricted, that's why i love to hear form Yoshida in live letters some of the feedback's ppl and it means that they read the forum and some winning posts are necessary to harass the devs, polite communities require time and now FFXIVARR are fighting against the dedicated FFXI community introducing in the new market with the new WoW users, the next patches will be key to know if they fail like a cult and deep game or they succes like a popular fast game making money with the hype for future expansions, more accurate to this as we see in 2.0

Saying every single gaming community is the same is anti-intellectual bullshit, sorry. Communities do vary, whether you're going by game or region. Of course there are always good and there are always bad, even a child understands that logic, but you're flat-out wrong if you think they're all the same.

"No region has more assholes than any other" is, plain and simple, fallacious and shows no grasp of the situation. I reiterate, there will be good and there will be bad. The bad are a dime-a-dozen, ignore them and move on with your life, their frequency is too great to let each one bog you down.

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Originally Posted by HaplessHermit

Saying every single gaming community is the same is anti-intellectual bullshit, sorry. Communities do vary, whether you're going by game or region. Of course there are always good and there are always bad, even a child understands that logic, but you're flat-out wrong if you think they're all the same.

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Of course they have slight variations, but the simple fact is this: in all these communities the good eggs outnumber the bad. That's what I meant by "all the same". I thought that was pretty simple to understand.

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Originally Posted by HaplessHermit

"No region has more assholes than any other" is, plain and simple, fallacious and shows no grasp of the situation. I reiterate, there will be good and there will be bad. The bad are a dime-a-dozen, ignore them and move on with your life, their frequency is too great to let each one bog you down.

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You're wrong if you think regions vary this way. Absolutely. It follows the exact same rule: jerks will be the vast minority.

Again, you're one of one people who express their opinion with a huge superior tone and hostile tinge, so it doesn't surprise me if you find more people you don't get along with.