Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

you should transfer to gilgamesh

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How many GMT based statics/FC's are there in Gilgamesh? Heard there's a few of them. I'm gunna move server before the expansion hits so might as well start looking now.

crazy question, is anyone else's server spearless, or is Malboro the only one that still waiting to see Bahamut drop one?

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Originally Posted by Dervy

How many GMT based statics/FC's are there in Gilgamesh? Heard there's a few of them. I'm gunna move server before the expansion hits so might as well start looking now.

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I don't have any info personally but the server is pretty huge population and end game wise so there probably is some around.

also we had like 10-15 spears in my fc but I mean, I'm the only dragoon and I got no spears.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

I don't have any info personally but the server is pretty huge population and end game wise so there probably is some around.

also we had like 10-15 spears in my fc but I mean, I'm the only dragoon and I got no spears.

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I need confirmation of a token loot system in 3.0 from SE before I pull my hair out, I've gotten 3 drops in 3 months.

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Originally Posted by Daweism

I need confirmation of a token loot system in 3.0 from SE before I pull my hair out, I've gotten 3 drops in 3 months.

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lol i feel your pain every other drg on my server has almost all left side the arm/chest never going drop for me

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Originally Posted by ish007xx

lol i feel your pain every other drg on my server has almost all left side the arm/chest never going drop for me

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I have yet to obtain a DRG piece from the second coil. And that is farmable for crying out loud ;___ ;

Just finished my right side today with the Dreadwyrm ring drop. ^o^

I really feel for the Ninja in my group though. He hasn't gotten anything for the left nor the right side yet. Literally.

Most of the loot went to our SMN and healers, with a decent amount to the tanks, bard, and me.

Btw Aiurily, I just noticed, you're in Xenos and Boks static/FC right?

This is my current stat as a dragoon. My dragoon doesn't go to coil anymore so my accuracy isn't a huge concern right now and should be fixable after this week's tome drop (nobody rolling on it for primary lot anymore).

http://puu.sh/fbGtT/9f280d61ac.JPG

Now, my question is, is it normal for me to keep letting phlebotomize drop off at 401 skill speed? I thought it would be somewhat normal on opening salvo due to the ogcds and jumps I weave in but on the second salvo and on, where there's less ogcd to be used, my phlebotomize keeps dropping off even with me mashing/queuing the gcds as fast as I can. I use /chotbar change macros but no /ac macros on the gcds (for combo page select sort of stuff) so I do have the ability to queue actions (at 280+ ms though). I mean, phlebotomize should be approaching 0 but never actually fall off the target status as I reapply it right? The icon stays there but the number resets back to its maximum? Doesn't happen with me?

I have a similar problem with warrior's berserk. People claim to be able to hit 9 actions under berserk at 360+ skill speed but I cannot hit 9 actions at 400 skill speed on a dummy in front of the fc house facing the ground. Is it action queuing vs/and/or latency issue? I really have no idea. I was told I'm hitting 460+ at 4 minutes ish with this gear set with no party bonus, food and potions but I can't help but wonder how much dps I'm missing out on just from this phleb issue (And possibly chaos too? Never really paid attention to that one's drop off tick). I realize there are other factors such as ogcd usage order and auto attack up time from using a controller with no lock on so my number might be even lower than what others would achieve with the same gear but I'm asking anyway.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

I have a similar problem with warrior's berserk. People claim to be able to hit 9 actions under berserk at 360+ skill speed but I cannot hit 9 actions at 400 skill speed on a dummy in front of the fc house facing the ground. Is it action queuing vs/and/or latency issue?

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It's 390SS for 9GDCs in berserk and yes, it's heavily reliant on latency. Also, the timing of Berserk is crucial. It needs to be used so the animation of it finishes right as you're about to use a Heavy Swing or Butchers Block, etc.

Also, yes, it's normal for Phlebotomize to fall off. As I'm with shitty EU latency, my mine falls off until I'm around 430SS... And if you're suffering from 280ms, I'd seriously get WTFast or Pingzapper and change data-centers.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

And if you're suffering from 280ms, I'd seriously get WTFast or Pingzapper and change data-centers.

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Haha...that 280+ ms is WITH a vpn. Without it I might as well be playing at 390+ ms AND chugging along like I'm driving a beat up car. And about the berserk thing, I've managed to pull off 9 hit at 400 but I can't even pull that off on a dummy regularly, much less with in actual combat situations (something like 1 success out of 5+ berserks).

So what's better for me then? Get more skill speed until it doesn't fall off anymore or just keep getting det and crit (and enough acc). I've been advised to keep pushing skill speed until I can 9 hit berserk because it's worth it for warriors (and I generally don't starve for TP as warrior).

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Originally Posted by Gardes

I have a similar problem with warrior's berserk. People claim to be able to hit 9 actions under berserk at 360+ skill speed but I cannot hit 9 actions at 400 skill speed on a dummy in front of the fc house facing the ground

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365 is the bare minimum for 9 skillspeed berserk and it's very unrealistic sometimes, because you need to have already good ping, and on top of that, open world latency is different from instance latency. in fcob it gets laggy enough that my jump clips my gcd or ir+legsweep ends up clipping into gcd, would be worse for warriors probably

but yeah, it's pretty normal. latency might have a factor, but letting the phlebotomize icon drop off is basically expected unless your skillspeed is really high or you have fey glow up

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Btw Aiurily, I just noticed, you're in Xenos and Boks static/FC right?

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in the same fc as bok yeah, they both raid in different groups though. cool people

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

in the same fc as bok yeah, they both raid in different groups though. cool people

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You made me have to check if I ever got the mapping turn 3 achievement. :P

Hmmm I though it was normal to drop Phlebotomize, since it's "wrong" to reaply it before it ends. Mayme I'm doing something wrong but sometimes it just fall off when I hit the skill to reaply, most of times I get the icon without a number on it and pops to max.

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Originally Posted by Dunncan

Hmmm I though it was normal to drop Phlebotomize, since it's "wrong" to reaply it before it ends. Mayme I'm doing something wrong but sometimes it just fall off when I hit the skill to reaply, most of times I get the icon without a number on it and pops to max.

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Ah...I read stuff about dots works on server clock not on personal dot timer on stick and also read stuff about how other classes slap on dots right before it falls off (as close as you can) in case the timing of the dot timer and server tick doesn't sync and end up losing a tick in between. That kinda made sense to me so I thought it'd apply to dragoons too. But I haven't actually thought about the front end of the dot if such a thing happens and whether that would be possible (like, having a 0.5 second gap between a phleb or smaller and a server dot tick happening right in that time gap).

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Originally Posted by Dervy

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTNX

And I'm wearing them because that's all the gear I have currently. Each time we're about to finally raid with my static, someone drops out. Fucking moogle, hate the people on this server. So unreliable, so I have no dreadwyrm/carbontwines :(

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Thanks Dervy. Very helpful!

A discussion came up on Reddit (I had a question for the author of a most excellent guide that's a WIP) and curiosity got the better of me, so I scratched a couple of theorycrafting itches that didn't seem to have conclusive supporting evidence on the Internet:

- Is Disembowel 10% or a 11.1...% buff? It's 10%.
- Is Disembowel applied immediately upon usage, or when its animation ends? Despite that it forces the floating text to come up before your next skill usage, you don't get the damage increase.

The former is just a confusion that may have arisen due to the tooltip wording. I think most of us were assuming it was 10% anyway.

The latter, however, affects what a lot of us thought we were getting out of our openers. Adjust... if you can figure out how. Hm.

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Originally Posted by Dunncan

Hmmm I though it was normal to drop Phlebotomize, since it's "wrong" to reaply it before it ends. Mayme I'm doing something wrong but sometimes it just fall off when I hit the skill to reaply, most of times I get the icon without a number on it and pops to max.

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It's an 18s DoT that's used ~20s apart. Because DRG combos are interrupted if you use other GCDs, there just isn't a good way to keep it from falling off unless you have disgraceful levels of skill speed, and I'm thinking we'd run into nasty TP issues even if we could use it whenever.

you just gotta leg sweep at the near of the gcd instead of immediately, dont think theres anything really to adjust.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

you just gotta leg sweep at the near of the gcd instead of immediately, dont think theres anything really to adjust.

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Yeah leg sweep is super sneaky quick lol.

ME ROE DRG WANT PRESS BOTAN NOW :(

Well, ever since they changed the cooldown on Life Surge and toned down the skill speed, I've had fewer reasons to keep that on the front half of the GCD.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Dreadwyrms have 11 more Acc :P So Dreadwyrm Gloves + 9acc/18crt/13det/18ss earrings

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PAF8

EDIT: Next week I'm gunna start getting the new topic done. If you have any tips/advice that should be in the front page that currently isn't, tell me and I'll include it. I'm gunna go over all of the maths on the OP as well and update it.

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Haven't caught up with the thread in a few days, are we still looking at this as crafted BiS?

Finished my mask, belt, and earrings two days ago and already feeling the difference (in TP drain that is)

That's the most cost-efficient set, yes.

Anything else will make you spend upwards of 20m+ to get .5-1 extra DPS

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Originally Posted by Dervy

That's the most cost-efficient set, yes.

Anything else will make you spend upwards of 20m+ to get .5-1 extra DPS

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So with this one http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PAAG the difference is further cost reduction, since you won't need the gloves, correct?

So I was wondering if it is even worth using the Plat Earring of Slaying I screwed up when melding. I got tired of losing 8mil breaking materia and eventually went the cheap route, which may have been a waste of gil... By my calculations its not even worth using it, am I wrong here? 9acc/15crit/13det/12SS.

Also here is my current setup: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PGE4

I also have the Poetics Chest, but I wont use it until I get a twine and I have the penta-melded head piece as well. Any suggestions on setup?

Let's assume you have my current earring set-up of x2 Crit IV's and x2 Accuracy IV's.

Using Quickarm III in the last slot will not be enough to make them BiS. That 3 SkillSpeed is what makes or breaks the earrings. If you cannot max out the melds on any of the accessories, then they will be replaced by an i130 counterpart. I think this also applies to some of the Left-Side crafted equipment.

If you're using Black Truffle Risotto's, they'll be replaced by Augmented Earrings. If you're using Flint Caviars, they'll be replaced by Dreadwyrms.

I did them AIM IV x2 Heavens IV x2, Quick IV x1.

Belt is also done, head is done, just finishing the gloves.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Let's assume you have my current earring set-up of x2 Crit IV's and x2 Accuracy IV's.

Using Quickarm III in the last slot will not be enough to make them BiS. That 3 SkillSpeed is what makes or breaks the earrings. If you cannot max out the melds on any of the accessories, then they will be replaced by an i130 counterpart. I think this also applies to some of the Left-Side crafted equipment.

If you're using Black Truffle Risotto's, they'll be replaced by Augmented Earrings. If you're using Flint Caviars, they'll be replaced by Dreadwyrms.

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Thanks Derv that is unfortunately exactly what I thought... Money down the drain :(

Finally raiding...

For T10, you guys split your DPS between the son/daughter? So IDC P on daughter then TTT/IDC P on son, then switch back to daughter?

Also, how do you guys manage your invigorate & TP? I noticed I run out of TP so god damn fast, but that may well be because I double stack IDC P on both son and daughter. We're getting 5-6 stacks each time, so I could ease up the DoT usage to conserve a bit more TP I guess.

Disembowel daughter, Chaos Thrust and Phlebotomize on the Son, and continue DPSing the daughter with buffs up while the son takes the buffed dot damage since blood for blood and internal release are up when I apply it. This way everything is smooth, and you still max out dps on the daughter and it dies quicker. I would ask Yan though since he's DRG jesus.

Generally I use invigorate when I'm on the first set of adds (usually after the first daughter and son are dead: that's when my tp will hit 400) and then refresh as needed. I do not need paeon at all in the fight; but that may be because I have absolutely no additional ss at all.

I dot combo all adds (starting with daughter) then single target using dfd to jump to the other pair. Hello inflated dps! Yeah tp used to be an issue for me but then my smn decided to go ninja..

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Finally raiding...

For T10, you guys split your DPS between the son/daughter? So IDC P on daughter then TTT/IDC P on son, then switch back to daughter?

Also, how do you guys manage your invigorate & TP? I noticed I run out of TP so god damn fast, but that may well be because I double stack IDC P on both son and daughter. We're getting 5-6 stacks each time, so I could ease up the DoT usage to conserve a bit more TP I guess.

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I IDC P son and then IDC the daughter and then I go on the daughter, I don't use the second phleb as it dies before 9 seconds. If I notice that my adds are dying more than the others, I jump on the other side and dot the other side, this depends on group dps and focus. It really sucks if you go to dot the other side and the side you're at dies before the original one you're at, cause then you gotta go back. Ideally you want both sets to die together while you're on the second set so you can go back to the boss.

For the second set of adds, I dot both daughter and son and we burn both, then I spineshatter to the other set, dot one or both depending on hp, then I elusive jump back to the new set since the lb 3 we do at this point hits all 4 and usually kills the old set.

I mean, I don't think tp management is an issue, just dot as you like seeing as the tanks and other dps will run out of tp as well. Get paeon.

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

A discussion came up on Reddit (I had a question for the author of a most excellent guide that's a WIP) and curiosity got the better of me, so I scratched a couple of theorycrafting itches that didn't seem to have conclusive supporting evidence on the Internet:
- Is Disembowel 10% or a 11.1...% buff? It's 10%.
- Is Disembowel applied immediately upon usage, or when its animation ends? Despite that it forces the floating text to come up before your next skill usage, you don't get the damage increase.

The former is just a confusion that may have arisen due to the tooltip wording. I think most of us were assuming it was 10% anyway.

The latter, however, affects what a lot of us thought we were getting out of our openers. Adjust... if you can figure out how. Hm.

It's an 18s DoT that's used ~20s apart. Because DRG combos are interrupted if you use other GCDs, there just isn't a good way to keep it from falling off unless you have disgraceful levels of skill speed, and I'm thinking we'd run into nasty TP issues even if we could use it whenever.

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Wait, im confused largely by this. are we saying that diss is not compounded after all other buffs or that it is compounded its just compounded by 10% and not 11%?

It means if you want to know how much damage Disembowel adds to piercing, divide by 10, not by 9.

ok guys question
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/2290699/
this is my gear.

is there anything i should switch out to get better dps like the i130 weapon?

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Originally Posted by beowulf81

Generally I use invigorate when I'm on the first set of adds (usually after the first daughter and son are dead: that's when my tp will hit 400) and then refresh as needed. I do not need paeon at all in the fight; but that may be because I have absolutely no additional ss at all.

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That's waay too late for me. I had to actually pop Invigorate at around 500 TP so Invigorate could be up for the 2nd set of adds. I always ran out of TP by then... I guess I'll have to get my bard to start using Armys Paeon between the two add sets.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

I IDC P son and then IDC the daughter and then I go on the daughter, I don't use the second phleb as it dies before 9 seconds.

I mean, I don't think tp management is an issue, just dot as you like seeing as the tanks and other dps will run out of tp as well. Get paeon.

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Yeh I'll definitely have to get a Paeon running. I think when we next raid (tonight or tomorrow, I forgot), I'll have to re-evaluate my groups DPS and see if phlebotomize is even worth using to try conserve a bit more TP.

Thanks guys.

Screw forum etiquette about double posting.

Ricky messaged me earlier this week wondering if there's any difference in the placement of BFB in the opening rotation. My initial result is that yes, the damage difference in using BFB before CT and getting 9GDCs in (So that's CT, PLB & x2 FTs) is a huge damage boost in the initial opener over using BFB before DE, or ID (let's say). I think someone posted this AGES ago in this thread and whilst I knew this to be true, I've never had the time to look into it. Well... I did.

I made 4 different models.

• First was the standard model I use to calculate the Dragoon Weights, this would be my control.
• The second one contains my BFB rotation, where I use BFB before ID.
• The second uses BFB before DE.
• The third uses BFB before CT.

Each model used the exact same Critical Hit Rating, SkillSpeed and Internal Release modifiers, so the rotations PPS without BFB is exactly neutral. Each model also had 391 SkillSpeed and was set-up so you'd always achieve 9 GDC's in one Full Thrust, similar to the model I made for Warriors who were interested in 9GDC Berserking (I dunno if you guys read that thread).

Here's the potency results of using BFB at different intervals

1st BFB:

• Using BFB before CT: 4623 (expected)
• Using BFB before DE: 4324
• Using BFB before ID: 4286

2nd BFB:

• Using BFB before DE: 4680
• Using BFB before CT: 4630
• Using BFB before ID: 4380

3rd BFB:

• Using BFB before ID: 4680
• Using BFB before DE: 4630
• Using BFB before CT: 4286

4th BFB:

• Using BFB before ID: 4184
• Using BFB before CT: 3990
• Using BFB before DE: 3897

The model I used ran for 294.29 seconds @ 391 SS or 2.452 GDC.

Looks like using BFB before DE comes out miles ahead in the long run ehh? Think again.

Before CT: 4624+4630+4286+3990 = 17530 / 294.29 = 59.5670936831017 PPS

Before DE: 4324+4680+4630+3897 = 17531 / 294.29 = 59.57049169186857 PPS

Before ID: 4286+4380+4680+4184 = 17530 / 294.29 = 59.5670936831017 PPS

So if you really care about 1 potency after like 5 minutes, or 0.00339800876687 PPS, use before DE.

If you want more burst, use before CT

If you don't care about w/e, use BFB whenever you feel like.

I'm still doing more testing and going to make my model run for MUCH longer to get more accurate results... But in all honesty, if after the 4th BFB all damage normalises, I cannot be bothered to go through all of the work.

NOTE: These results only work with 390+ SS and being able to do 9 GDC's in one Blood for Blood. This means nothing to you if you're using it below 390 SS (370~ with incredible ping) and unable to get 9 GDCs in BFB.

Oh. You can use these numbers if you want to "cheat" on Dummy parsing results as well. If you're doing 3 minute parses, just add up the values of 1st, 2nd and 3rd BFB intervals so you find the highest one (I think it's CT).

So Dervy, in my Early t10, where Pray and dps check were issues, as also my SS was god damn high, I could run out of TP on last phase IF I had a specially clean 1st and 2nd phase. That means, no Dash mark / stack for me. Otherwise, if I had to participate in any Dash, that litle bit of time where I did not hit the boss was enought to hold the TP consumption so I could normaly use 1st Invigorate when hit 460TP and refresh as needed.

By the time, I did not DoT both adds, since Daughter needed to die ASAP so our healers didn't need to manage another pray.

So, by now, I guess your group has a waaay better DPS than we had first week, so I guess you can just burn Daughter>Son>Repeat and save some TP on adds phase to spend on boss.

Our main gripe with T10 so far (first try, only had 30 mins), was that our WHM was having his MP decimated during the add phase. Luckily, I seem to be sporting 370 SS so my TP consumption is low and I have enough time to keep my TP up, with my DPS being around 400. So I'm guessing, it's fine for the moment. So we can use Mage Ballad on for the adds. Though, in fairness, our MNK doesn't seem to be having TP issues either, which worries me a tad. But I will have to see given more time on T10 myself.

just for anyone curious, if you use disembowel at 0.5-1s on the previous disembowel debuff, it'll still get the pierce bonus from clipping its own debuff. even though the hit "lands" after the debuff falls off, it registers it the hit a lot earlier (unlike the debuff)