Black Mage

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

Also its DPS is currently overestimated due to a bug with Dot Damage in the statistics site (as well as Ruin 4 exploiters).

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This is worriying makes making an extimation all the more difficult

I just hope the so called potency "buffs" upcoming does not bring along with it changes to smn down the road again and make the changes mute.
Perhaps they should ask the opinion of the top tier black mages rather then just implement whatever changes, lol
True smn is not always on top but the gap sure is big enough between it and blm, it is very disturbing for all of us especially those who have mained blm forever

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

To use extreme numbers, if you gave BLM 10k raw dps, you would. If you gave more single target sustained dps buffs (rather than raidwide short high potency buffs), you would. There's plenty of ways it can be done. If BLM has enough personal dps it would be considered - right now it isn't even close to providing that. Checkout Blackcat's Raid DPS app if you want more information.

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If you make a class have enough dps to surpass sinergy of buffs it'll be hilariously broken for 95% of the playerbase, if it happens in 4.2 the inevitable nerf or huge buffs to everything else will probably return us to the current status...

Right now a MCH (for example) outdpses a BLM and even a SAM if you consider total damage contribution (personal damage + raid damage) by quite a bit, however it only happens because the healers will be dpsing hard during Hypercharge, the Warrior will be using Berserk + Inner Release and everyone else will be using all their 1 min or 2 min buffs during that time, if you happen to have a Warrior who is always on defiance, healers who don't dps or dpsers who miss their burst windows, the contribution of hypercharge ( or trick atack os anything else, i'm using MCH as an example because I actually play the class) drops hard, making a selfish class that can outdps all this sinergy will be super broken in lower skill groups.

That's the catch, though, they can't make it SOOO much higher that it breaks the class for 4-man and casual content/groups. They can't justify BLM having DOUBLE the damage output potential of the next highest dealer; it would break the already very fragile balance of their game (note just how much they boast "any standard comp of 2/2/4 can clear just about anything).


I'm keeping up in the discord about the Thunder maths, but that still doesn't reassure me. I would much rather see this ridiculous logic of "raw damage no utility" just be wiped clean from the entire game. It's a 4.0 precedent anyway; BLM had access to Apoc/Eye for an Eye/Virus/Lethargy(which actually was pretty useful since it didn't need to be hardcast)/Manaward AND Manawall (for helping soak busters solo tank) beforehand, so it's not like the job has "always been" this way. Every class deserves some utility/buff for the other players in the party, even if it's just a 180s recast party wide stat buff like Battle Litany. (this is why I suggest "Aetherial Radiance")

From the other thread:

To give an example on why I think Hypercharge could be used as a model.

Imagine a Manadrive ability for BLM: increases the potency of ALL your spells by 20 for 20 secs(?) additional effect: Magical dmg done by you increases target chance to be direct hit by 4% last 5 secs CD 120 secs (ofc all numbers are PH)

It would grant us a Burst and a source of raid dps (plus a unique effect)

I don't think that alone would let us become support, our toolkit would still be too much dps centric but it would allow us to bring something

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Originally Posted by Lina_Slayer

If you make a class have enough dps to surpass sinergy of buffs it'll be hilariously broken for 95% of the playerbase, if it happens in 4.2 the inevitable nerf or huge buffs to everything else will probably return us to the current status...

Right now a MCH (for example) outdpses a BLM and even a SAM if you consider total damage contribution (personal damage + raid damage) by quite a bit, however it only happens because the healers will be dpsing hard during Hypercharge, the Warrior will be using Berserk + Inner Release and everyone else will be using all their 1 min or 2 min buffs during that time, if you happen to have a Warrior who is always on defiance, healers who don't dps or dpsers who miss their burst windows, the contribution of hypercharge ( or trick atack os anything else, i'm using MCH as an example because I actually play the class) drops hard, making a selfish class that can outdps all this sinergy will be super broken in lower skill groups.

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95% of the playerbase can't play classes that well anyway, so I doubt it would affect them!

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

95% of the playerbase can't play classes that well anyway, so I doubt it would affect them!

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It's the exactly opposite, it would make a good BLM super broken on lower skill groups and it'll be only balanced on the top 5% (or less) of the player base.

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Originally Posted by Lina_Slayer

It's the exactly opposite, it would make a good BLM super broken on lower skill groups and it'll be only balanced on the top 5% (or less) of the player base.

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Lower skilled players won't be a good BLM. If you mean a good BLM grouping with lower skilled players - well, you can make that argument about any class in the current state. You should absolutely not balance the skill ceiling of a class based on lower skilled players.

If a player is good enough to be a very skilled player in a bad group with BLM, then there is absolutely no problem because he's put in the effort and is rewarded for his skill.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

Lower skilled players won't be a good BLM. If you mean a good BLM grouping with lower skilled players - well, you can make that argument about any class in the current state. You should absolutely not balance the skill ceiling of a class based on lower skilled players.

If a player is good enough to be a very skilled player in a bad group with BLM, then there is absolutely no problem because he's put in the effort and is rewarded for his skill.

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That depends on if the 10k is just a baseline increase (potency) or skill based (ability interactions).

As it stands, it's not difficult to hit 80% of a job's output, meaning the 10k example would have most players doing 8k DPS.

Maybe we should find a common place on what lower skill and high skill is, sometimes I get the feelings that personal interpretations gets in the way