Highly Notorious Monsters

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You obviously did not thoroughly understand what you originally read, as you claimed I "declared" that people "hate you and hate you strongly". Pointing out reading comprehension was not meant to offend but to point out first and formost that you misunderstood what you read in my post.

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You don't say "Reading comprehension!" you say "I don't think you understood me correctly- what I meant was... "

One is a lot more rude than the other. I don't just randomly declare this and that a flame. It's all in how you word it.

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but whatever, I'm sure you take anything I say in a negative manner..

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No, I don't automatically take anything you say in a negative manner. If you were polite and you engaged me on the topic civilly this conversation would have gone a lot better. What you did was closer to putting your hands up and saying "Talk to the hand!" Any time you want to pose an argument in a polite and friendly manner, i will be happy to hear it and regard it with respect and courtesy. this will go a lot better if you aren't so quick to make assumptions.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

That's fine to me as long as the rewards are equivalent in quality (obv. there would be limits on how often you could challenge the instance or have a lower drop rate if you could challenge it more often). If some people want to sit around waiting for something to pop, that's their perogative, but I don't feel that being idle for a few hours entitles someone to a bigger reward.

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Just because your still going, im going to repost my responce to this above... Einherjar. It seems you keep blacking out or something every time you get to this answer and missing this... over and over. You said if there was an event that had all of the drops that HNM's do you would be fine with it aslong as there is no difference in the gear... which there wasnt.

So why are you still going on, your problem with this has a solution that FF11 had, and we all agree there should be an alternate way/event to get any/all gear from HNM's.


Random thought

Imagine behemoths dominion... but much larger and full of little behemoths to exp off of (though it should not be efficient to exp in this area, they should take to long to kill), maby there could be an ending area where KB could spawn thats safe from the normal agro so you do not have to bother with it, but you could have to fight your way to where KB spawns and during windows you could kill normal behemoths for drops (example could be the black belt item... like a 1% chance on normal behemoths... if not less, considering people would be mass killing them all the time and they could also drop horns or something more common.).

Instead of trying to get rid of windows because you want a broken system where the window stay in your time zone 100% of the time, try to think of something SE could put into the game with HNM's that would solve the problem.

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Just because your still going, im going to repost my responce to this above... Einherjar. It seems you keep blacking out or something every time you get to this answer and missing this... over and over. You said if there was an event that had all of the drops that HNM's do you would be fine with it aslong as there is no difference in the gear... which there wasnt.

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Except einherjar doesn't offer all the same rewards as the HNMs, and einherjar required a LOT more people when it came out. I never "blacked out," I ignored it because it wasn't relevant. Also, FFXIV doesn't have any "einherjar" event at this time. You know, if they make one, I'll probably play it. But right now there is no knowledge of such a thing.

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So why are you still going on, your problem with this has a solution that FF11 had, and we all agree there should be an alternate way/event to get any/all gear from HNM's.

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I don't really want there to be an "alternate" event. My perference would be one single event that is well designed rather than one that is and another that isn't, just for the die hard old school fans. IMHO, some people here are seeking FFXIV to be something that it isn't- a sequel to FFXI with the same feel and content as FFXI.

So while I would accept an alternate means of obtaining the same items, to me it's such a waste to build two different events to the same ends. I would rather have HNMs implemented in a well designed manner, than have them implemented in a shitty manner and having a good alternative. What ends up happening is everyone does the latter and nobody does the former- thus all effort spent in created the former is wasted.

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Instead of trying to get rid of windows because you want a broken system where the window stay in your time zone 100% of the time, try to think of something SE could put into the game with HNM's that would solve the problem.

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Or here's a better idea- get rid of the spawn windows, because they're stupid, and involve the player in the NM's spawning by making things in the area affect the spawn time or make it lotto pop style (but it would be any of several mobs, not just a placeholder because that would be more abuseable).

FFXI had many different methods of popping NMs of all shapes sizes and strengths. It just so happens that the method employed for most HNMs is the worst one they came up with.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Except einherjar doesn't offer all the same rewards as the HNMs, and einherjar required a LOT more people when it came out. I never "blacked out," I ignored it because it wasn't relevant. Also, FFXIV doesn't have any "einherjar" event at this time. You know, if they make one, I'll probably play it. But right now there is no knowledge of such a thing.

I don't really want there to be an "alternate" event. My perference would be one single event that is well designed rather than one that is and another that isn't, just for the die hard old school fans. IMHO, some people here are seeking FFXIV to be something that it isn't- a sequel to FFXI with the same feel and content as FFXI.

So while I would accept an alternate means of obtaining the same items, to me it's such a waste to build two different events to the same ends. I would rather have HNMs implemented in a well designed manner, than have them implemented in a shitty manner and having a good alternative. What ends up happening is everyone does the latter and nobody does the former- thus all effort spent in created the former is wasted.

Or here's a better idea- get rid of the spawn windows, because they're stupid, and involve the player in the NM's spawning by making things in the area affect the spawn time or make it lotto pop style (but it would be any of several mobs, not just a placeholder because that would be more abuseable).

FFXI had many different methods of popping NMs of all shapes sizes and strengths. It just so happens that the method employed for most HNMs is the worst one they came up with.

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Einherjar had every abj. that HNM's and many many more beyond it, Ein required more people, yes, because it was an actual event where HNM's are "filler" content, they had far lower drop rates and where Ein was every 3 days, actual HNM's had a chance to spawn 3-7 days, Einherjar was a huge advantage over HNM's and neither piece of content was ignored in any way/shape/form. Explain in full how this is not relevant, it 100% destroys your argument that its not fair for you to have to put up with 30min windows, when you never had to in the first place, the fact that an Ein-like event does not currently exist in 1.0 is irrelevant considering neither do HNM's, and the rest of us are even asking for an Ein-like event to be added in terms of drops so you can 100% avoid your hated windows.

Your preference is to only have something that you would like and that works 100% around you because you fail to realize other people play the game, your being presented with options that would keep both sides happy and your responce is honestly that it would be a waste to create both sets of content. Just to fill you in, the entire reason HNM's are still being discussed is because they are considering puting them into the game, the content would already be there, the only extra work the developers would have to do is the windows.

You can have all of those types of spawns, but HNM's/windows should be there too. You do not have to understand how people can like it or like it yourself, theres can easily be content for everyone.

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Einherjar had every abj. that HNM's and many many more beyond it

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The abjurations, yes, but not the other drops. Least i'm quite sure you can't get a d.ring or ridill from it.

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Your preference is to only have something that you would like and that works 100% around you because you fail to realize other people play the game

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Wrong. My preference is to have well designed content. We don't need to have redundant content either that only one person or the other one is going to play- that's a waste. I want one event that's good for everybody, not two events to give the same thing to different kinds of people. You're painting this as some kind of selfish desire on my part, and that's not what it is at all.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The abjurations, yes, but not the other drops. Least i'm quite sure you can't get a d.ring or ridill from it.

Wrong. My preference is to have well designed content. We don't need to have redundant content either that only one person or the other one is going to play- that's a waste. I want one event that's good for everybody, not two events to give the same thing to different kinds of people. You're painting this as some kind of selfish desire on my part, and that's not what it is at all.

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D.ring is the only good item from any HNM that was not in ein, 1 drop in total, ridill was cool, but it sucked, when it came out until the end of the game, it still sucked, it was a cool sub-par weapon. Einherjar had 3 times+ the number of abj.'s and full Valhala set... uppon many other things. D.ring is alot of people go-to item with this, but the fact that maby 1-2 dropped per year on average means that HNM people rarely even got it, through all of the many years I did HNM's, I only ever saw 1 D.ring drop and it was after abyssea release, and we literally FFA'ed it.

Your version of "well designed content" revolves around a broken system that does in fact revolve around you. There needs to be 2 systems because what people like you want does not match up with what others want. Your version with no windows would literally move the HNM spawn by maby 5-10min's at a time, after the HNM being in the same time zone for likely weeks and weeks... and weeks it would move to another time zone, then people in the first time zone would have to wait many many months for it to cycle back to the start.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Your version of "well designed content" revolves around a broken system that does in fact revolve around you. There needs to be 2 systems because what people like you want does not match up with what others want. Your version with no windows would literally move the HNM spawn by maby 5-10min's at a time, after the HNM being in the same time zone for likely weeks and weeks... and weeks it would move to another time zone, then people in the first time zone would have to wait many many months for it to cycle back to the start.

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The bolded part is the key. There is no middle ground. What 1 group wants is almost the opposite of what the other group wants. Only solution is have both, and do it in a way that does not screw the other over. Make both groups happy should be the ultimate goal, not only will it attract more people to the game, it will keep everyone in it because everyone is having fun in the way they want.

If SE does not do this, 1 group is going to get very pissed and they risk losing a chunk of ppl. And people can use the well those people can just quit... but then the game is sorta screwed. For those saying no one likes X the fact this post exist is proof enough you are wrong.

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Your version of "well designed content" revolves around a broken system that does in fact revolve around you.

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You keep revolving this to be revolving around me when in fact it is not. So please, stop revolving alleged revolutions and pretending there's some kind of self serving agenda here when there isn't one, before I revolve your revolving revolutionist revolutions.

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There is no middle ground. What 1 group wants is almost the opposite of what the other group wants.

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I disagree. There can be content that most classic HNMs can enjoy as well as modern MMO players. The real problem in this thread is people being too stubborn to see it- because I want HNMs just as much as anyone here. The only thing I don't want is disfunctional pop mechanics that serve no beneficial purpose other than to deter all but the most diehard fans from wanting to participate, thereby leaving more kills and drops for the few people left. If anyone is selfish here it is the people pushing to retain bad pop mechanics.

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You can have all of those types of spawns, but HNM's/windows should be there too.

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Your mentality here seems to be that if it doesn't have 30 min pop windows, it's not an HNM. HNM is an informal designation for a very powerful monster, more powerful than those simply called NMs. It does not make any reference whatsoever to the pop mechanic employed. I don't know why you're fighting so hard to keep a poorly designed method of popping when there are many other ways that are less disfunctional and less suseptible to cheating and abuse. Maybe its because you/your LS botted, so you benefitted from the pop window mechanic? I don't know and can't say for sure, but I haven't met anyone else that liked it that didn't cheat or attempt to cheat.

There were stuff like claim bots, even Ixion botting, and fishing. They were running mods that allows them to see through walls, or be notified when a specific monster in the zone pops etc.

There is no way for a GM to find out whose botting or not. That is another problem.

I am pretty sure that FFXIV will have all major content where you fight bosses that drop loot in instances. Not sit around for 3 hours wait for 30 min windows and have people claim bot. Even FFXI moved away from their old system, they even made the old kings pop item from ks99.