What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

And by all means, explain how a man who didn’t know of Dynamis at all is supposed to come up with a counteract. Tell me how beings that couldn’t hear Meteions cries could fight against a being of pure Dynamis. Let's hear it.

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I have to say I am not entirely convinced you want to hear it.

But the answer is knowledge and creation magic. Elpis's #1 resident depressed edgelord is stated not to be the only one with expertise in Dynamis. Is it so far-fetched to imagine working together and researching Dynamis-capable familiars, refining them so they don't go nuclear when encountering negative emotions perhaps? This isn't taking into account a system like they have in Ktisis, which seemingly gives Ancients access to Limit Break, but that might just be a contrived integration of a gameplay mechanic.

Speaking of Ancients and Dynamis, we have Seat of Sacrifice too. Yes, he was drawing power from Dynamis-capable beings. But then, this fact opens up the possibility to consideration at all. After all, a Primal is, again, a twist on creation magic, with souls. Areas of expertise of Lahabrea and Emet-Selch.

There is just... a lot that could have been done and explored.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

You’re the one that is constantly grasping at straws, constantly trying to defend your crystal mom waifu when for all intents and purposes, she is a monster. You are entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else is, however i have given numerous examples, backed by actual in game knowledge and lore to support my
claims. Your claims have constantly been “because the story says so she’s a hero blah blah don’t think too hard about it.” Fact is, at the end of the day, she didn’t tell anyone what she knew. She kept it a secret and it led to her destroying her own entire world. I’d rather not continue this conversation though as you seem to be getting rather tired of being proven wrong time and time again, and so i bid you adieu~

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For someone who claims to understand the lore well, the poster doesn't even do that particularly well:

https://i.imgur.com/ShwYNRO.png

https://i.imgur.com/dz8mTiS.png


Dynamis does not factor into their solution because said solution is designed without knowledge of the underlying cause, instead being designed to buffer the celestial currents where they are weak. Nowhere is it attributed solely to Hermes (as opposed to scholars, in the plural, as per the source), nor is an understanding of dynamis mentioned as relevant - for all we know they could've simply inferred the pattern in question, with Zodiark able to bolster it as required. And I am not familiar of any sources that attribute Zodiark to him specifically.

I hope people won't be subjected to more horrific personal attacks and defamatory comments from certain posters. That's usually the next step after the latest round of 'NOOOO, U MUST LIEK AND AGREE WITH CRYSTAL MOMMY' begins.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

Yeah, I thought it would have been a natural conclusion. Both Hydaelyn and Zodiark work to protect the planet (only one of them can claim to be "the will of the planet" though, sorry sis, but please stop telling us you are), and even Y'shtola remarked in 5.4 that Fandaniel's goal of destroying everything conflicted with Zodiark's very nature, and we all know Y'shtola is never wrong. I was so sure it was going to go with this balanced direction, rather than... well, I guess this contrived plot would have never worked without the intervention of the Heart of Zodiark, huh? Not that anyone ever bothers acknowledging this in-universe, but anyway.

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Out of curiosity, do you play the game in the French version? I play in EN but I speak French well enough to be able to understand it, and I usually look at the FR version transcripts some posters put up to compare to the EN version, and I find often there's sometimes subtle, sometimes larger differences between the two. I know FR cleaves quite a bit more closely to the JP version (along with the DE version), but with its own occasional embellishments. The part for instance about Y'shtola remarking on Zodiark is clear in FR, in EN it's a bit more dressed up and round-about.

I agree about Zenos, I thought he was given about as good a send-off as he's going to get. Just please don't bring him back.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

I have to say I am not entirely convinced you want to hear it.

But the answer is knowledge and creation magic. Elpis's #1 resident depressed edgelord is stated not to be the only one with expertise in Dynamis. Is it so far-fetched to imagine working together and researching Dynamis-capable familiars, refining them so they don't go nuclear when encountering negative emotions perhaps? This isn't taking into account a system like they have in Ktisis, which seemingly gives Ancients access to Limit Break, but that might just be a contrived integration of a gameplay mechanic.

Speaking of Ancients and Dynamis, we have Seat of Sacrifice too. Yes, he was drawing power from Dynamis-capable beings. But then, this fact opens up the possibility to consideration at all. After all, a Primal is, again, a twist on creation magic, with souls. Areas of expertise of Lahabrea and Emet-Selch.

There is just... a lot that could have been done and explored.

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I'd add that even if he is drawing on beings more readily able to interact with dynamis, they are in this context, fuel sources, and it is he who is performing the manipulation in question into LBs. Now we don't know if they'd use aether or dynamis to explain the LBs in that scene, as prayer can correlate with either, but it is not impossible that it might be just that that he, in his primal facet, is capable of drawing upon both, given that primals are beings born of much prayer. We'll have to see what they come back to with this. IMO, at a minimum, selective sundering of their people, without sundering the entire star and all other ancients, would work, and other methods could be investigated as alternative (or even superior) possibilities.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

To kill Lahabrea the aether in the eye of a dragon coming from another star and not affected by the sundering was necessary.

To defeat Emet-Selch and Elidibus it took a 9/14ths of a WoL plus 7 presumably sundered heroes 1from other shards (but who knows if "from across the rift" goes even beyond the sundered fragments of the Source, so each could be a "fully fledged person". But let's stick with fragments for now). Technically 16/14ths of an unsundered.

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All this math is really getting in the way of the power of friendship and camaraderie and hope for tomorrow that actually defeated the ascians.

Seriously how can you stand thinking about fiction in terms of power levels and force multiplers? I do not understand this way of thinking at all.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I hope people won't be subjected to more horrific personal attacks and defamatory comments from certain posters. That's usually the next step after the latest round of 'NOOOO, U MUST LIEK AND AGREE WITH CRYSTAL MOMMY' begins.

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This kind of language is so unnecessarily toxic. Why talk like this about people who disagree with you about the interpretation of a fictional character?

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Originally Posted by Teraq

Snip.

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Honestly I don’t think it matters to people who defend the story so hard. Like I truly believe that if the writers had done what you suggested with the dynamis familiars and other things, and if the story had a different ending, all it takes is for someone to say they didn’t like the story and list all their reasons why before you get someone saying “You didn’t understand the story…the reason why we needed the dynamis familiars was because…and see if you had paid attention to the lore…” The devs can write anything and people will defend it.

The reality is that for a lot of us who have problems with the story, no amount of quotes and showing screenshots of lore is going to change a perception or opinion. If I say this is the way things looked to me, this is the vibe I got, I didn’t like this character because they came off as this to me…someone showing me quotes from the lore doesn’t do anything to my perception that the story came off as convoluted, rushed and in some parts ridiculous to me.

But at this point I just break out the popcorn and watch the show lol people get so worked up.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

All this math is really getting in the way of the power of friendship and camaraderie and hope for tomorrow that actually defeated the ascians.

Seriously how can you stand thinking about fiction in terms of power levels and force multiplers? I do not understand this way of thinking at all.



This kind of language is so unnecessarily toxic. Why talk like this about people who disagree with you about the interpretation of a fictional character?

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Funny how you comment about him as being toxic but don’t address the person regarding other peoples opinions as being an “echo chamber.” Once again, here come people trying to derail a conversation into something else sigh.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

This kind of language is so unnecessarily toxic. Why talk like this about people who disagree without about the interpretation of a fictional character?

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I don't agree with your assessment and I don't think that there's anything particularly 'toxic' when it comes to my previous post.

I'm merely expressing my deep concern given the prior history of Hydaelyn fanatics resorting to personal attacks, tone policing other horrid tactics whenever someone successfully points out that, actually, the Unsundered aren't wrong to want to avoid being subjected to genocide by an unhinged saboteur who fancied masquerading as a 'supreme deity' and 'mother'.

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Originally Posted by OhNooo

Honestly I don’t think it matters to people who defend the story so hard. Like I truly believe that if the writers had done what you suggested with the dynamis familiars and other things, and if the story had a different ending, all it takes is for someone to say they didn’t like the story and list all their reasons why before you get someone saying “You didn’t understand the story…the reason why we needed the dynamis familiars was because…and see if you had paid attention to the lore…” The devs can write anything and people will defend it.

The reality is that for a lot of us who have problems with the story, no amount of quotes and showing screenshots of lore is going to change a perception or opinion. If I say this is the way things looked to me, this is the vibe I got, I didn’t like this character because they came off as this to me…someone showing me quotes from the lore doesn’t do anything to my perception that the story came off as convoluted, rushed and in some parts ridiculous to me.

But at this point I just break out the popcorn and watch the show lol people get so worked up.

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Agreed, some of the ardent defenders have really backfired in regards to my opinion. I call Hydaelyn/Venat a sparkleprincess mary-sue as mostly a joke, but their need to tear down a fictional race that happens to be superior to mortals in some aspects but also have their own downsides (that I like) seems pretty real.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

All this talk of Venat/Hydaelyn being genocidal. To be frank those that survived the sundering were just as bad..

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For sure, they did awful things and I wanted to smack Emet and Eldibus for their hypocrisy at some points. I found their motivations to be more compelling and relatable in the end and to be more entertaining than most other characters, though, even if they ended up having to look silly thanks to memory wipes and time loops.

All this talk of Venat/Hydaelyn being genocidal. To be frank those that survived the sundering were just as bad..