What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

They absolutely needed Hermes for Zodiark... in spite of creations being very much their specialty, and particularly that of Lahabrea. They absolutely needed him to understand the celestial currents... in spite of there being other experts on this self-same topic.

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How many times must it be said that she doesn’t distinguish her people and the Unsundered like you do. She describes both the unsundered and the sundered as being humanity.

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Yeah totally, doesn't distinguish.

https://i.imgur.com/BScIw8i.png

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

They may not needed to summon Zodiark had she informed them of the threat BEFOREHAND. I’ve already given numerous examples of “how” she could have prevented the event. Considering how much you respond to me i’d assume you have my posts memorized by now, otherwise a brief summary. Tell Emet, a very intelligent man. Start honing their dynamis skills, using the facility that allows them to do just that. Step 3:Profit the end

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I respond so often because your posts are so often unsourced and inaccurate. Stop that and maybe I won’t feel the need to argue.

And by all means, explain how a man who didn’t know of Dynamis at all is supposed to come up with a counteract. Tell me how beings that couldn’t hear Meteions cries could fight against a being of pure Dynamis. Let’s hear it.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

They absolutely needed Hermes for Zodiark... in spite of creations being very much their specialty, and particularly that of Lahabrea. They absolutely needed him to understand the celestial currents... in spite of there being other experts on this self-same topic.


Yeah totally, doesn't distinguish.

https://i.imgur.com/BScIw8i.png

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Every rectangle a square but not all squares are rectangles is a difficult concept I know.

But sure let’s talk clear examples.

https://i.imgur.com/xpAX2fX.jpg

“Our journey” doesn’t exactly scream “we’re different groups of people.”

And in Elpis she repeatedly uses “we” when discussing our plans for what to do next, referring to her and us.

And there’s this.

https://i.imgur.com/58cYMnP.jpg

And this

https://i.imgur.com/qwe0r30.jpg

But yeah totally no reason to think the sundered and unsundered were both equally human and part of the same group.

Aha. Anyway, you keep at it with your attempt at lore-policing. I'd sooner have a conversation with a brick wall.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Aha. Anyway, you keep at it with your attempt at lore-policing. I'd sooner have a conversation with a brick wall.

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I can attest to what that’s like given our previous conversations.

So anyway. For those who stick around, can’t imagine how they’re going to transition to the next chapter of the new story. Like whew ok we just went to space and defeated Despair itself and conquered the ability to use Dynamis so now it’s time to…go gather some crates lol idk

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Something that may have sat better with me and done a better job subverting expectations would have been to see them come together and draw on both their power to ultimately save the world.

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Yeah, I thought it would have been a natural conclusion. Both Hydaelyn and Zodiark work to protect the planet (only one of them can claim to be "the will of the planet" though, sorry sis, but please stop telling us you are), and even Y'shtola remarked in 5.4 that Fandaniel's goal of destroying everything conflicted with Zodiark's very nature, and we all know Y'shtola is never wrong. I was so sure it was going to go with this balanced direction, rather than... well, I guess this contrived plot would have never worked without the intervention of the Heart of Zodiark, huh? Not that anyone ever bothers acknowledging this in-universe, but anyway.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I personally hated it. It just felt like a parody fight that was trying way too hard, almost like gcbtw: the trial

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This is funny because I have this good friend who semi-jokingly insists EW was just one big satire of the fandom's toxic positivity and a certain Twitter crowd's insistance on the bad guys being very, very bad.

Though I will say that when I say it feels good as a fight, it's mostly because I think it is in many ways the "perfect" Final Fantasy end boss: fighting the personification of a concept at the end of the universe in a battlefield that makes no sense but looks spectacular while epic music plays and your friends (well, your character's friends, of course) cheer you on. I do wish we could have heard more of the actual song rather than her ripping off the boss themes of better characters* for the better part of the fight. The fact that it plays only for the underwhelming enrage with two whole mechanics is a real missed opportunity.

But yeah. Punching Despair in the face! Don't think too hard about anything, because we just punched Despair in the face.

* I totally include Zenos in these. He completely shot back up in my esteem when he popped up out of nowhere at the ass-end of the Universe just to ask me why I wasn't done with this girl spouting nihilistic bullshit like a middle schooler yet. Dude... I know, right?

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

I respond so often because your posts are so often unsourced and inaccurate. Stop that and maybe I won’t feel the need to argue.

And by all means, explain how a man who didn’t know of Dynamis at all is supposed to come up with a counteract. Tell me how beings that couldn’t hear Meteions cries could fight against a being of pure Dynamis. Let’s hear it.




Every rectangle a square but not all squares are rectangles is a difficult concept I know.

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You’re the one that is constantly grasping at straws, constantly trying to defend your crystal mom waifu when for all intents and purposes, she is a monster. You are entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else is, however i have given numerous examples, backed by actual in game knowledge and lore to support my
claims. Your claims have constantly been “because the story says so she’s a hero blah blah don’t think too hard about it.” Fact is, at the end of the day, she didn’t tell anyone what she knew. She kept it a secret and it led to her destroying her own entire world. I’d rather not continue this conversation though as you seem to be getting rather tired of being proven wrong time and time again, and so i bid you adieu~

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Originally Posted by Teraq

This is funny because I have this good friend who semi-jokingly insists EW was just one big satire of the fandom's toxic positivity and a certain Twitter crowd's insistance on the bad guys being very, very bad.

Though I will say that when I say it feels good as a fight, it's mostly because I think it is in many ways the "perfect" Final Fantasy end boss: fighting the personification of a concept at the end of the universe in a battlefield that makes no sense but looks spectacular while epic music plays and your friends (well, your character's friends, of course) cheer you on. I do wish we could have heard more of the actual song rather than her ripping off the boss themes of better characters* for the better part of the fight. The fact that it plays only for the underwhelming enrage with two whole mechanics is a real missed opportunity.

But yeah. Punching Despair in the face! Don't think too hard about anything, because we just punched Despair in the face.

* I totally include Zenos in these. He completely shot back up in my esteem when he popped up out of nowhere at the ass-end of the Universe just to ask me why I wasn't done with this girl spouting nihilistic bullshit like a middle schooler yet. Dude... I know, right?

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It kinda did feel like a parody when Zenos showed up, basically asked us why we were taking so long to defeat the boss then ends up basically being our arena ground while we fight (c’mon SE you knew what you were doing by letting us “ride” Zenos wink wink). The whole thing felt pretty ridiculous in a lot of scenes so I could see how someone could view it as a parody lol.

I actually ended up liking Zenos more by the end of EW than I have all these years. I get that he represents a raider who doesn’t care much about the story and just wants to fight harder and harder bosses. That’s funny cause that’s how I used to be too.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

How many times must it be said that she doesn’t distinguish her people and the Unsundered like you do. She describes both the unsundered and the sundered as being humanity.

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Except when she calls us her "childs".

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Prove either. Or wait let me guess. You’re gonna post that convo in Heavensward regarding Hydaelyn and Zodiark again aren’t you? And just completely ignore three expansions of context. Yknow what, fine let’s make it a rule that if a character does anything like that scene, we can’t trust their words ever again. Let’s see how many sources of information we have left.

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To kill Lahabrea the aether in the eye of a dragon coming from another star and not affected by the sundering was necessary.

To defeat Emet-Selch and Elidibus it took a 9/14ths of a WoL plus 7 presumably sundered heroes from other shards (but who knows if "from across the rift" goes even beyond the sundered fragments of the Source, so each could be a "fully fledged person". But let's stick with fragments for now). Technically 16/14ths of an unsundered.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

You’re the one that is constantly grasping at straws, constantly trying to defend your crystal mom waifu when for all intents and purposes, she is a monster. You are entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else is, however i have given numerous examples, backed by actual in game knowledge and lore to support my
claims. Your claims have constantly been “because the story says so she’s a hero blah blah don’t think too hard about it.” Fact is, at the end of the day, she didn’t tell anyone what she knew. She kept it a secret and it led to her destroying her own entire world. I’d rather not continue this conversation though as you seem to be getting rather tired of being proven wrong time and time again, and so i bid you adieu~

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You provide no evidence, no text, no reason to believe what you claim, and when I point out where the text disagrees with you you claim it’s either bad writing, my headcanon, or some combination. The fact you believe you’ve disproved anything makes clear that my biggest failing in these convos is that yiu are capable of good faith discussion.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

Except when she calls us her "childs".

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Posting these again. https://i.imgur.com/xpAX2fX.jpg

“Our journey” doesn’t exactly scream “we’re different groups of people.”

And in Elpis she repeatedly uses “we” when discussing our plans for what to do next, referring to her and us.

https://i.imgur.com/58cYMnP.jpg

And this

https://i.imgur.com/qwe0r30.jpg

Venat and Hydaelyn consistently make clear we are united and while different in nature, both are of mankind.