Do you think bard desired a nerfing soon.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

I mean Jesus why SE love bard so much.

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http://famvin.org/en/files/2012/03/cellphone-Jesus.png

I wish you understood that most people will play what is fun to them, not play them just because they have a higher reward for less risk... think for a minute before you start calling people stupid.

41 pages worth of people wanting to resolve melee problems by crying and demanding Bard be nerfed.

Why don't you ask to have your class fixed instead?

I get your pain. I honestly do. This is the first MMO in which I don't play melee dps exclusively, so I understand very well how frustrating it is to be the class/job no one wants in the group save for the limit break. I just don't get why your 'fix' needs to come at the expense of another class. Bard isn't broken. Bard certainly isn't OP in terms of dps. Bard is hectic to play properly (as dps+utility). Bard happens to be fun at the moment - the only dps class that is dynamic (based on procs vs a rigid rotation, which is the main reason I stick to it and not monk/dragoon). So why do you feel the need to screw it up for those of us who enjoy it? I mean if you really truly feel Bard overshadows everything else then why don't you just play one?

From my bard experience i would say.... Get rid of river of blood or atleast lower the probability and give heavy shot a cast time.

balancing solved.

Please explain to me where we are OP. If any you people crying for a bard nerf have seen other good people play their classes they out dps bard by an average or 30-50 dps. I have 6 ilvl 90 pieces an average 250 dps in most fights in coil. Our FC Summoner, Black Mage and Monk all top that. Should I cry for a nerf to them because of there DPS.

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Originally Posted by Ericyu

From my bard experience i would say.... Get rid of river of blood or atleast lower the probability and give heavy shot a cast time.

balancing solved.

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Casting time on Heavy Shot? If I had casting times I'd rather just play BLM. :p

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Originally Posted by Alish

Casting time on Heavy Shot? If I had casting times I'd rather just play BLM. :p

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This. Why on earth would I bother playing a class that is lower DPS, must attend to utility duties and has no freedom of movement which is the only advantage I currently have (and is the only thing that makes combat in this game tolerable)?

this is really funny bard is deserved a Nerf....ummmm how about they loose dmg when they sing a song then they loose 20% dmg during the song then they stop casting abilities few second before they silence to make sure they dont miss it they focus other to give them mp or tp or boost they dmg they can give 20% enemy resistance reduce so caster get lots more dmg then a bard. so if they give bard more damage its for a reason they are not stupid lol if they reduce bard damage you wont see any bard give mp or tp no more lol so it would really not make any sense to Nerf a bard

Bard problem?

1. River of Blood
2. Bloodletter
3. River of Blood
4. Misery's End
5. River of Blood
6. All in one macro on Heavy Shot
7. All in one macro on Straight Shot
8. All in one macro on Windbite
9. All in one macro on Venomous Bite
10. All in one macro on Quick Nock
11. All in one macro on Rain of Death
12. All in one macro on Wide Volley
13. Blunt arrow and Repelling Shot off GCD and being used if the utility part isn't needed
14. ???
15. Oh and also Flaming Arrow... even on single target just because it is off the GCD...

Really you want to deal with Bard you only need to deal with one thing.. River of Blood. End of Story that is what makes Bard damage over the roof. Basically I know a shitty bard when I hear how long it takes for his Misery's End shot FX sound to trigger. Cause no way in hell you can be more efficient than macro'ing all that shit in all your on GCD skills. To those that say you are losing DPS to Monk, Black Mage and Summoner? Well I'm at the same threat level as them after REPEATEDLY using Quelling Strikes. I'm almost 100% guaranteed to take aggro on tanks which have no STR accessories if I pop all my CDs off the bat even with Quelling Strikes on, and as I said the culprit is River of Blood, cause if you are lucky its like a 150 potency attack every 3 seconds clipped with your GCD skills.

If BRD played more like my G-horn BRD in XI I would roll it so hard. So hard. I tried it in this game, but Spammy McPewPew wasn't really for me. Let's face it, the songs are watery compared to the epicness that was March/Minuet. That's why a lot of people don't want a damage nerf. If BRD offered enough support capabilities to earn their spot without taking a hit to DPS then no one would care.

Solutions:
1. ARC -> BRD/RNG.
2. Add a support slot to 8 man instances. Both jobs queue as DPS in 4-man.
3. Introduce decent songs -> Minuet, Mambo, March, Elegy.
4. Address ranged DPS balance issues when RNG is introduced.

With competent support capabilities, you can then substantially reduce BRD DPS and no one would care because their awesome buffs would mitigate DPS losses. I should correct myself here, the people that don't think BRD should be a support class would care but they can a) go back to WoW or b) wait for RNG.

1- river of blood is not a skill
2- why in the hell do you have so many macros?

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Originally Posted by FaizeD

the people that don't think BRD should be a support class would care but they can a) go back to WoW or b) wait for RNG.

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Or we can, you know, play the job as a DPS with a few support capabilities - as it is clearly intended - and you can a) go back to FFXI or b) wait for a pure support class.

See what I did thar?

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Originally Posted by Dire

Or we can, you know, play the job as a DPS with a few support capabilities - as it is clearly intended - and you can a) go back to FFXI or b) wait for a pure support class.

See what I did thar?

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Very clever. Enjoy your nerf.

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Originally Posted by FaizeD

Enjoy your nerf.

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If I don't like the way Bard plays after 2.1 the solution will be very simple for me - I'll go play some other game. It will be the solution for many others as well. The rest will reroll BLMs/SMNs. Enjoy the competition and/or the declining population, whichever comes first.

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

Really you want to deal with Bard you only need to deal with one thing.. River of Blood. End of Story that is what makes Bard damage over the roof.

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lol. WHaaaaat?

PFFFT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Yes. That's totally it. Nerf River of Blood. That'll fix everything :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Dire

If I don't like the way Bard plays after 2.1 the solution will be very simple for me - I'll go play some other game. It will be the solution for many others as well. The rest will reroll BLMs/SMNs. Enjoy the competition and/or the declining population, whichever comes first.

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Waiting for sometime in December seems like it is years away. Not sure I can make it until then.

After looking at Bard/Archer skills, I do not think Bards are OP.

Bards play style like mentioned is purely proc dependent skills in order to deal high damage.

People who does not want to do DPS skill rotations, Bard is definitely the style the class that suits them.

If you are a dragoon or monk and with the right skill rotation, you can also produce very high damage and possibly overpower a bard's damage.

I think most people feel bards are OP because they are very highly demanded in BC raid groups due to their ability to silence at range, reducing the burden of the melee players on silencing. And of course MB and PA songs are very powerful support.

The only part where I believe what bards are OP is the ability to provide a very huge amount of MP/TP regeneration(close to limitless) to the team when they shout for it which makes them to be the top choice over all other DPS classes. And I think if SE were to nerf bards, then its the regen songs that they might nerf.

They can nerf bard by remove bard song and give them to monk or smt.

How to nerf Bard:

- Increase Foe's Requiem to 20%
- Increase MP gained by Mage's Ballad
- Remove Blood for Blood
- Remove Internal Release

Problems?

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Originally Posted by Exstal

How to nerf Bard:

- Increase Foe's Requiem to 20%
- Increase MP gained by Mage's Ballad
- Remove Blood for Blood
- Remove Internal Release

Problems?

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A few.

MP is finite. Songs are not powerful enough nor do they last long enough to warrant the costs associated with your proposed nerf.

Losing Blood for blood would be a loss, but a manageable one. Losing Internal Release would cripple River of Blood and too large a chunk of our DPS.

Making BRD songs more powerful and moving BRD more towards support would just create the situation people seem to be trying to prevent. BRDS would be severely OP then and "required" for everything. Demand for BRDs would increase. BRD stacking would be the only thing people are ever willing to do.

At least now, perceptions aside, it is still viable to replace a BRD with another DPS. Make their support stronger...and it won't be. Other DPS will just lose more spots to us.

Moving Bard to a more support role will either make them worthless or completely necessary, why would anyone want either? Nerf their songs, make them do more damage and have a more complex rotation that does not allow extreme macros. Of course this will not happen, instead they will just nerf damage very lightly I'm sure and Bards will still be boring and needed for easy completion of instances.

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Originally Posted by Danko

Making BRD songs more powerful and moving BRD more towards support would just create the situation people seem to be trying to prevent. BRDS would be severely OP then and "required" for everything. Demand for BRDs would increase. BRD stacking would be the only thing people are ever willing to do.

At least now, perceptions aside, it is still viable to replace a BRD with another DPS. Make their support stronger...and it won't be. Other DPS will just lose more spots to us.

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This. People are crying already that Bards are irreplaceable (when in fact it's not true, not yet), do you honestly want it to get worse?

On a slightly different note, there seems to be a Bard exodus atm, at least on my server. In the last week I have been contacted by several (unrelated) people on my friends list - whom I haven't spoken to in a while - all looking for a Bard for their Coil teams. No, they are not stacking multiple Bards, theirs are just not there anymore. Looking at my server's FC recruitment threads there's a cry out for Bards as well. On the flip side I do know quite a few Bards who switched to BLM/SMN, so I am really beginning to wonder if this is going to become a widespread issue - Bards rerolling and/or quitting in anticipation of the nerf.

I stopped playing a Bard when I heard about the upcoming mysterious nerf. A damage nerf I can deal with, but as bards are not top DPS already, I don't see what good that will do. I expect they are going to hamper the mobility. Honestly, given the nature of the problem, that probably is the necessary "fix." Problem is that bards so completely don't want to play a post mobility nerfed bard that they just stop playing bards before the nerf ever happened.

My draw to Bard was the mobility. Without it, I'd rather play... pretty much anything else. The mobility defines the nature of the class. Now I main Scholar and dabble a bit in Summoner until my Warrior job gets up to speed. Until I know what the nerf is going to be, or am assured that there won't be a nerf to mobility more specifically, I won't play Bard anymore. Apparently, I am not the only one with that sentiment.

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Originally Posted by NeonC

instead they will just nerf damage very lightly I'm sure and Bards will still be boring and needed for easy completion of instances.

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The Bard role could be not so challenging but it is so pew pew funny =P

If a Ranger job is coming, i strongly suggest making it stronger than Bard but by no means should any job get axed or trimmed? Add, don't take away! Saying you'll adjust my Bard i so indiscriminately decided to level to 50 and get that ridiculous outfit would be so much easier to digest. I was hopeing Bard would be kick-ass and stick it to the mob like the other DPS.

It ain't easy being a damage dealer, mobs hate you for it too!

But to SE: Don't be hating!


Bring on Ranger! Bows, guns, cannons, aaaaah!

The only bards that top the dps charts are, paradoxically, the crappy ones that don't understand their role, which is not dps.

The high dps bards are the ones that refuse to play their songs and use rain of death on single targets because of the hit to their dps. This reduces the dps and potential hps of the party as a whole, but they are too dense to understand this, or too selfish to care.

A good bard that understands their support role is an excellent addition to any group. Sadly, they are few and far in between in my experience.

It would be nice if there was a parser that could give bards credit for the extra dps done with foe up, but I don't know how you could figure out their exact contribution thanks to extra attacks/heals from mage/army. If a parser could do this, then they would understand they are not dps, they are support.

Without this, a good way to encourage them to play their role is to nerf their damage overall 15-20% and reduce the damage loss from playing mage/army to 0-5%, and maybe give them a 5-10% buff to damage from foe.

Also, create a support sub forum in this section. SE is sending mixed messages by having them post here. Give them a support community and maybe they will stop trying to live up to dps numbers and play better.

There is no support role

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Originally Posted by jmdatcs

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You definitly have no clue on what u talking about, yet u come in this post and try to give a lecture. 15/20% damage debuff constantly? are u out of your mind? noone would ever party again a bard, having bard in your party would then make u fail every dps check phases of the game. Bard don t need a nerf at all, and if urself u believe so, it s probably because u do need some gears.
About ur song comment, it amazes me how some ppl like to think they can tell other classes how to do their job. Unfortunatly, Bard CANNOT use their song more than maybe 15% of the time, due to the fast mp burning AND it would be plain stupid to play a song just because we happens to be full mp because the support addition might be needed in another way. Concretly, i do mean that i won t play Foe requiem when i know that 2 min later my WHM will be out of mp and need a mana song + battle voice, or i won t play a mana song during a dps phase check as my 20% dmg will be way more usefull to the group. Things need to be planned a bit you see....
I would also add that 100% of the dps classes have support abilities, bard happen to have a bit more, have to sacrifice some of their dmg for it, and need to use them at the right time to not screw their team, this bit more of support + mobility (wich is overrated.... YAY i can cast one more skill than other classes when i have to move out of a red circle every minute) explains our low damage potency compared to other classes but, you know what dude? if you wanna feel like a bard you could try to only spm Scathe! i m sure your dmg will be AMAZING!

Reading comprehension.

Reduce Bard dps by 15-20%, then the debuff % from Mage's Ballad, and Army's Paeon is gone. Also increase their DPS by 10% when using Foe's Requiem.

There is no reasonable way to nerf Bard dps. They don't shine as hard in higher content but their utility is key. Maybe removing some cross-class skills so they don't do as much? I don't really have an answer, SE will just take a dump on them and people will quit Bard.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Reading comprehension.

Reduce Bard dps by 15-20%, then the debuff % from Mage's Ballad, and Army's Paeon is gone. Also increase their DPS by 10% when using Foe's Requiem.

There is no reasonable way to nerf Bard dps. They don't shine as hard in higher content but their utility is key. Maybe removing some cross-class skills so they don't do as much? I don't really have an answer, SE will just take a dump on them and people will quit Bard.

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reading comprehension : u can use ballads only about 15% of the time (during any high end boss battle), wich is a straight 20% dmg nerf during 85% of the time. When u try to play smart, at least try to use ur brain.

If they were to nerf their damage or mobility, I'd rather they give them back their songs from Ver 1 and CNJ sub class back. Being a complete support class I'm fine with but they are not because there is no such thing. So as long as BRD is DPS then it doesn't need a nerf, it's fine how it is.

I'm generally worried SE will do something that will break the class, Archer is the only class I feel is fun. I guess I could always craft or gather full time until Musketeer comes out.

Please don't nerf mobility... it's what makes the class fun. Kiting trash in PvE or solo quests...Off tank kiting an aggro pull by yourself. Just being able to run around and shoot feels more active and fun. Please don't take it away...

I just don't want them to take my running while shooting. I love the kiting aspect of the bard. I dont care if they nerf the damage output....i just want to run free x.x

That's right run around like a headless chicken and don't let the tank regain his threat back and the melee dps slow or stun.

I just hope and pray the nerf hammer isn't too severe. I wont quit over it but I daresay some would.

Eh. I feel like I definitely do more damage than some classes as BRD, but I also know some classes do more dmg than me. But, whatevs; I'm not sure what the role of bard is supposed to be. I just know that I liked it before it was popular. /hipster :P Still, a proposed nerf makes me nervous; buffs to other classes would be better, I think, especially with how unforgiving end-game can be.

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Originally Posted by fauxpas

funny how all complaints about bards are from monks and dragoons? why why wouldent a bard stick up for his class when some asshat makes stupid claims about something that they realyl dont know about

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I know the feeling, everyone need to be special.

Bard is the job I wanted to play specifically because I fell in love with the mobility, proc based play, and support elements of the class. I kinda am a bit scared with the patch in 2.1 based off SE's history with nerfs from the FFXI days. That and I don't want to be a stationary caster... i want to be able to run around, kite, shoot, dodge, duck, and weave. Right now, I'm frankly terrified they will make the class basically unplayable.

That all being said, are bards too good now? Absolutely not.
Could they need some adjusting? Maybe
If you had to adjust anything what would it be? Make it require 15 CNJ instead of 15 PGL, remove cross class abilities from PGL and replace with cross class from CNJ (that means losing Internal Release but gaining actual support abilities, just like bard should have been from the start)

That would bring back a few more of the support roles Bards should have had, while still being a good DPS with no major tweaking to the job needed.

Now I am saving my mythos (925) atm and leveling/gearing my DRG, because I am not sure what to expect. I kinda think that they will mess up the nerf and BRD will be useless. Yes, there will still be need for BRDs in coil T1,T2 but every DPS classes will be better. DRG is awesome now, after the buff it will be even better. BLM has higher dps, better lb... I wish I knew about the nerf earlier. :D

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Originally Posted by Sindalis

... replace with cross class from CNJ (that means losing Internal Release but gaining actual support abilities, just like bard should have been from the start)

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Huh?
What support abilities would we get from Conj?
Can't cast Raise in combat.
MND is EXTREMELY low, so cure would hit for ~100.
Protect is 100% redundant.

So that leaves Stoneskin?
You want to trade away the best possible cross class damage buff that we have for a weak (untraited) stoneskin that would run us out of mana in 3 casts and prevent us from being able to sing Foe?

Come on now... that wouldn't make us any more support oriented.
It would end up being a fairly significant damage nerf at endgame, and give us virtually nothing to show for it.