Best DPS class in the game?

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Originally Posted by GYX

single target:
1.MNK
2.BLM
3.BRD or SMN
4.DRG

AOE:
1.BLM or SMN
2.BRD
the rest fall on bonus damage for 1 and 2.

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Both wrong, although the ST list is less wrong.

Here's a test. Two SMN in AK, almost killed the first NM (the priest) before he pops his summon, about 10% hp left. Two BLM, couldn't get him to the same 10%hp, more like 30%.

I was one of the smn, as well as one of the blm (two different runs in case you need help figuring out).

A lot of people here go by what they see in their parse. What they can't comprehend is that for a SMN, shadow flare and the dots on other adds, it's not counted. So, when they see their parses and see SMN as the 4th or 5th in the damage column, it is believe they are not good at dps. This is farthest from the truth. SMN can be top or barely 2nd in the damage department.

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Originally Posted by HamHam

Here's a test. Two SMN in AK, almost killed the first NM (the priest) before he pops his summon, about 10% hp left. Two BLM, couldn't get him to the same 10%hp, more like 30%.

I was one of the smn, as well as one of the blm (two different runs in case you need help figuring out).

A lot of people here go by what they see in their parse. What they can't comprehend is that for a SMN, shadow flare and the dots on other adds, it's not counted. So, when they see their parses and see SMN as the 4th or 5th in the damage column, it is believe they are not good at dps. This is farthest from the truth. SMN can be top or barely 2nd in the damage department.

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while i agree summoner might very well be top dps, i dont believe your post contributes to that at all. 1 low HP mob (not a full boss, burstable down in a few seconds) not only speaks for how much you can burst rather than actual dps on a 3-8 minute boss fight, you are also considering 1 test of each pair, and a total of 2-3 players skill/gear and using it to predict what a class is capable of, or what a class performs on average.

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Originally Posted by xyaie

while i agree summoner might very well be top dps, i dont believe your post contributes to that at all. 1 low HP mob (not a full boss, burstable down in a few seconds) not only speaks for how much you can burst rather than actual dps on a 3-8 minute boss fight, you are also considering 1 test of each pair, and a total of 2-3 players skill/gear and using it to predict what a class is capable of, or what a class performs on average.

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In reality, I wasn't trying to say SMN > everything else. It was more of a "I'm making a point" type of response to everyone else response. See, you see people here make assumptions about everyone's else jobs/classes. Some will say that a class is better than another one. But if you pay close attention, there's not much of a difference between classes.

It all depends on the person who is using the job. If I'm an expert in DRG and a newbie MNK joins the party, guess who's going to out dps the other person? The experts is, but then, you will see people in the pt shun the MNK for not keeping up with the DRG, then make general assumptions about MNK. Same thing applies to all the other jobs. DRG vs MNK, SMN vs. BLM, BRD vs. DRG, etc..

So, my post was more of an exageration and a parody about the many here who are saying, a job is better than another one.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Both wrong, although the ST list is less wrong.

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GYX is heavily wrong, first the BLM on single target do less (or the same) damage as a summoner, sure the summoner won't do less damage. Second, on aoe the BLM outdamages SMN, but only if there are more than 4 targets.

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Originally Posted by xyaie

while i agree summoner might very well be top dps, i dont believe your post contributes to that at all. 1 low HP mob (not a full boss, burstable down in a few seconds) not only speaks for how much you can burst rather than actual dps on a 3-8 minute boss fight, you are also considering 1 test of each pair, and a total of 2-3 players skill/gear and using it to predict what a class is capable of, or what a class performs on average.

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Are you saying SMN has more burst than BLM?

=D Joyous day.

(note this post is not necessarily sarcastic.)

Also unless you can't flank or backstab I don't see a bard outdpsing a dragoon, even if disembowel buffs bard damage.

ST : Monk and SMN.

AOE (5+ targets) : Blm, dragoon.

Multi Target (2-4) : SMN.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Are you saying SMN has more burst than BLM?

=D Joyous day.

(note this post is not necessarily sarcastic.)

Also unless you can't flank or backstab I don't see a bard outdpsing a dragoon, even if disembowel buffs bard damage.

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actually, kind of, yes. in this situation. a summoner can have all of his DoTs rolling, fester and do the little pet big boomy thing. they could replicate this as many times as needed. All that together in a few second period would out damage flare convert flare. beyond that the majority of a black mage's best "burst" is depending on RNG procs. now overall totally new target that you havent spent your time setting up on (normal bursting down a target) a black mage dominates.

Eh until we have parsers that are more accurate we really wont know. But as of right now i have yet to see any summoner get even close to my damage as a black mage. I don't know if they are bad or what but even with sharing the parser stats with their parser they were lower. This last week in coil i did about 295 on first two fights, 345 on elevator and twin about 293 without limit included. I still have about 4 pieces to upgrade to ilvl 90 as well.

Now monks i can see being the best single target but no fight is truely optimized for them since their buffs dont last long at all =/

Bad bad smners than. We have 3 groups that clear turn 5, ran with 3 different groups in there... Even on my non optimal pulls and messing up my #1 spot is never in jeopardy. Monk are the ones ive seen come closest af least in my fc and a bard that doesnt sing.

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Originally Posted by GYX

Funny how the BRD bashing began and stopped----> dead tread until someone necroed...

Yes, BRD seemed like an OP class, but once the serious game began:

single target:
1.MNK
2.BLM
3.BRD or SMN
4.DRG

Not too many brave enough to put this up, or test it, but I have witnessed some experiments with MRD that could challenge spots 2 or 3 for single target damage, given the fight doesn't take too long (huge burst with cds popped, strings of 1200+ crits, 4-5 in a row, may do for a great pvp dps spec) that's with DRG/MNK ilvl60 gear and Titan's axe.

AOE:
1.BLM or SMN
2.BRD
the rest fall on bonus damage for 1 and 2.

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LOL
Do people even realize how amazing BLM is for AoE? My main in is BLM, I have SMN with Relic and it has NOTHING on my blm, not even a contest when it comes to AoE, nobody does.
Here's just an average Screen shot from WP run, nothing special, just the usual:
http://i42.tinypic.com/14djd6x.jpg

So that's 11,218 DMG in one nuke, Which was convert> switftcast> and flared again so roughly 22,000 DMG in about 3 secs.
Nothing else in this game can touch that.

And that's not counting the continuous Fire II> Blizzard II that can be done as filler.

For AoE there is no question that Blm is tops. If you are questioning that you are very confused. Smn is likely second in AoE. Followed by Bard, Monk and Drg that all do about the same damage in AoE (read their abilities).

For single target its almost certainly Smn and Mnk on top followed by everyone else. The longer fights go on the better these two get.

Overall the balance is pretty good and SE has already pointed out issues with melee that they are planning to fix.

Before I had relic I hated BLM , they would steal agro from my PLD by mistake almost . Now I love them they are the best DPS class in game . Bards are 2nd because they have mana song which is super useful .

Only reason DRG would be the Limit Break I guess . Apart from that they suck from my experience.

For example in coil turn 1 the DRG would sometimes get hit when the boss ate the adds, whereas the BLM would stand back and pew pew pew .

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Originally Posted by Grailer

Before I had relic I hated BLM , they would steal agro from my PLD by mistake almost . Now I love them they are the best DPS class in game . Bards are 2nd because they have mana song which is super useful .

Only reason DRG would be the Limit Break I guess . Apart from that they suck from my experience.

For example in coil turn 1 the DRG would sometimes get hit when the boss ate the adds, whereas the BLM would stand back and pew pew pew .

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Thats because the DRG you had weren't very experienced. Bring a T5 Dragoon in there to Coil T1 and watch him destroy something.

There was a Dragoon I saw in a pug Titan last night who was pulling 104 DPS and tried to friend me.

I declined.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

There was a Dragoon I saw in a pug Titan last night who was pulling 104 DPS and tried to friend me.

I declined.

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You only talk to people who can pull 105 dps.

The nerve of that guy!

You should've asked if he was using the panda rotation.

PS I only talk to dragoons who use the panda rotation.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

You should've asked if he was using the panda rotation.

PS I only talk to dragoons who use the panda rotation.

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What is a panda rotation?

That's a good point. I'm going to use that as my filter for friendinvites from now on!

Most of DRG dps comes from correct rotations of a crap load of skills. If you do it perfectly, you are definitely up their on top DPS single target with monk easy. Easy to play, hard to master moreso than other classes minus monk.

In my coil group, I'm usually (90% of the time) on the top of DPS charts on all bosses (minus adds) and my group has two bards, 1 SMN or BLM.

So what's up with DRG being pretty much lowest dps aside from like, bard? And having no meaningful utility to make up for it aside from buffing bard? And getting buffed in 2.1 but so is at least Monk. Kinda eyebrow-raising.

Also, disagree with the above. You don't have a monk in your group. They destroy on single target.

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Originally Posted by matic

So what's up with DRG being pretty much lowest dps aside from like, bard? And having no meaningful utility to make up for it aside from buffing bard? And getting buffed in 2.1 but so is at least Monk. Kinda eyebrow-raising.

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DRG have one of the highest single target DPS in the game. Only reason why people think they do low dps is because you see 90% of players only spamming the 3 way thrust combo rotation (which easily makes you the lowest dps in the game...). Also, with the cast time reduction on jumps, our dps will be increased even further.

(Meant that Monk is higher than Dragoon given optimal DPS). I don't disagree that Monk is the highest DPS in the game. But in Coil, there is no point of running two melee, and if you have bards, its better to run with a DRG that can provide Disembowel Debuff.

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Originally Posted by Hooplahs

DRG have one of the highest single target DPS in the game. Only reason why people think they do low dps is because you see 90% of players only spamming the 3 way thrust combo rotation (which easily makes you the lowest dps in the game...). Also, with the cast time reduction on jumps, our dps will be increased even further.

(Meant that Monk is higher than Dragoon given optimal DPS). I don't disagree that Monk is the highest DPS in the game. But in Coil, there is no point of running two melee, and if you have bards, its better to run with a DRG that can provide Disembowel Debuff.

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Two melee is not even sub-optimal for anything but turn 4. Not 100% on turn 5 since that is still progression for me but from what I know, two melee is fine.

Also, I'm pretty sure summoner is above dragoon for single target.

The disembowel buff isn't that potent considering you're buffing the bard which is the lowest dps.

All of this is moot though.
Post 2.1, we'll all be stacking monks with those buffs!

I can't speak to SMN dps but MNK is pretty comfortably ahead of DRG, so it's kind of a shame that DRG isn't getting buffed more than just jumps. I play both MNk and DRG so I have firsthand experience. The difference is pretty tangible, and more than 10% i'd say. I've put a lot of time into my DRG gear and it's just frustrating to know that i could have geared MNK instead and performed noticeably better in coil.

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Originally Posted by matic

I can't speak to SMN dps but MNK is pretty comfortably ahead of DRG, so it's kind of a shame that DRG isn't getting buffed more than just jumps. I play both MNk and DRG so I have firsthand experience. The difference is pretty tangible, and more than 10% i'd say. I've put a lot of time into my DRG gear and it's just frustrating to know that i could have geared MNK instead and performed noticeably better in coil.

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They take the increase DRG's Disembowel provides BRDs into account when balancing.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

They take the increase DRG's Disembowel provides BRDs into account when balancing.

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Apparently not, if they're finally buffing DRG damage by 10%.

They seem to be ~8% behind monks atm, though I think they have fewer TP issues.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Apparently not, if they're finally buffing DRG damage by 10%.

They seem to be ~8% behind monks atm, though I think they have fewer TP issues.

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I'm not so sure what they mean by 10% increase to DPS is what people are understanding. I'm pretty sure they're not just globally increasing DRGs damage output by 10%. They mean to say, with the Jump adjustments and some possible other tweaks that DRGs will be capable of 10% more DPS, roughly, in their optimal state.

Not sure what your source is about DRG being ~8% behind MNK in DPS, or what you mean by that exactly. As in DRG does 98% of MNK DPS or MNK does 108% of DRG DPS (the 2 aren't the same). Either way my initial feel is the difference is greater.

All of that being said, MNK is getting a damage buff as well apparently, so whatever the difference is between DRG and MNK it will likely be preserved more or less.

My source is my sim, which has DRG about 8-10% lower than MNKs.

Mostly monks just have more self buffs, but have a pretty high ramp up, so on any disconnect it takes a long time for monk to catch up if they ever lose GL3.

And 8% lower is if monks do 100% damage, DRG do 92% of that damage.

EDIT: they're closer to 7% behind.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

My source is my sim, which has DRG about 8-10% lower than MNKs.

Mostly monks just have more self buffs, but have a pretty high ramp up, so on any disconnect it takes a long time for monk to catch up if they ever lose GL3.

And 8% lower is if monks do 100% damage, DRG do 92% of that damage.

EDIT: they're closer to 7% behind.

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From what I understand, it's quite difficult for a DRG to put out their optimal damage. All I can say is, I've never seen a DRG get even that close in practice, but I suppose it's not surprising that as a melee job their DPS ceiling is high.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

From what I understand, it's quite difficult for a DRG to put out their optimal damage. All I can say is, I've never seen a DRG get even that close in practice, but I suppose it's not surprising that as a melee job their DPS ceiling is high.

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That may be true, but actually for the DRG sim it doesn't even use a priority system (which would allow it to make better/quicker decisions than humans can), instead it uses a set in stone rotation.

So memorize the rotation and you're golden.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

From what I understand, it's quite difficult for a DRG to put out their optimal damage. All I can say is, I've never seen a DRG get even that close in practice, but I suppose it's not surprising that as a melee job their DPS ceiling is high.

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DRG rotation is pretty straightforward... It's just that 90% of the population doesn't use the correct one.

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Originally Posted by Hooplahs

DRG rotation is pretty straightforward... It's just that 90% of the population doesn't use the correct one.

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And what would the correct one be?

Panda rotation.

The challenging part of the DRG execution is not memorizing the rotation. It's adjusting the rotation dynamically when things happen, or setting up for specific fight events that conflict with the rotation.