Review of 6.3 Story Content

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Let's be honest, how many of us have the same reaction?

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https://media.tenor.com/D_n-m3ERj-cAAAAd/wombat-eat.gif

id call him a wombat, but I dont want to upset the little guy....

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Originally Posted by Sekundessounet

LMAO, I checked OP's "reddit answer edit", and it's mostly just the same guy he screenshoted over and over.

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Tinfoil hat theory the person they screenshot is probably OPs Reddit user :P I am going to believe that in my fanfiction of this user's habits and responses lol

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

Tinfoil hat theory the person they screenshot is probably OPs Reddit user :P I am going to believe that in my fanfiction of this user's habits and responses lol

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That would be quite sad, so I'm gonna say no. It does seem that they want validation from a wider array of people though.
It's too bad because some points are actually valid I feel, but it's just drowned in vitriol and self-righteousness, so it becomes unhearable.

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

While I do understand that you can still have low stakes and be a great story that is properly paced like 4.2-4.3 with Yotsuyu's arc. I also am just not a fan of what thus far appears to be copy paste FF4 characters/plot in the MSQ, I expect that from side stories but not the main scenario. It just feels like somehow nothing is happening with the big bad's plot and yet we are rushing through everything with Zero at the same time for some reason.

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The only copy-pasted story with FF4 are just the characters alone. Nothing in the story is beat for beat a plot point from FFIV. We didnt climb Mt.Ordeals for our WoL to become a Paladin only to get ambushed by Scarmiglione, we didnt climb the Tower of Zot to save a Scion only to get ambushed by Barbariccia, the twins didnt sacrifice themselves when Cagnazzo showed up at the last minute and Rubicante didnt guard the crystals at the Tower of Babel. Again, the story presented is original with the whole aspect of the void and the 13th, just with some FFIV flavor characters slapped into it with new meaning. The FF games have done this crap before and nobody complained about it.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Lo and behold the response to this patch on Reddit. Really interesting stuff here compared to the usual posts on there:

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Could you link to the actual thread? Not to accuse you of cherry picking...but you MIGHT be cherry picking and I'd like to verify.

This patch was kind of filler. That's what happens from time to time, usually to build up to something. That's fine. You apparently hate the entire cast of characters - Y'Shtola, G'raha, Alphie, Alies, Krile, any scholarly character (I assume since you didn't note any you didn't hate as an example of how it's been done better), and you're very clearly jaded/biased against EW as a whole. EW isn't the most controversial expansion in the game's history. Depending on how you want to count, SB and 1.0 both were more controversial, and EW is still mostly regarded by the community as being better than SB so far.

I get you led with this is your opinion, but then you started talking like it was facts and anyone who disagrees is wrong, and then you made the strange decision to say that people couldn't tell you this forum was negatively biased...by going to Reddit, one of the most negative places on the internet. Not sure (because you didn't provide a link) if your thread was from ffxiv or ffxivdiscussion, but ffxiv tends to downvote anything that isn't a commission or praising either Emet, Hythlo, or G'Raha, and ffxivdiscussion...has weird downvote/upvote patterns.

Needless to say, things aren't nearly as bad as you make them out to be. It's filler, but it was okay for filler. And your opinions aren't universal, and likely aren't even the majority. Not sure how else to say it. /shrug

Your opinion isn't WRONG...for an opinion. But it's clear you're pretty jaded and not appraising this neutrally.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

The only copy-pasted story with FF4 are just the characters alone. Nothing in the story is beat for beat a plot point from FFIV. We didnt climb Mt.Ordeals for our WoL to become a Paladin only to get ambushed by Scarmiglione, we didnt climb the Tower of Zot to save a Scion only to get ambushed by Barbariccia, the twins didnt sacrifice themselves when Cagnazzo showed up at the last minute and Rubicante didnt guard the crystals at the Tower of Babel. Again, the story presented is original with the whole aspect of the void and the 13th, just with some FFIV flavor characters slapped into it with new meaning. The FF games have done this crap before and nobody complained about it.

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People forget that the FF series is self-referential. Tropes, characters, scenes and dialogue are often repeated for the sake of references and nostalgia. Outside of Gilgamesh who for the most part is the same character every time you see him (barring specific encounters), FF14 does what other FF games do when it comes to moments and stuff from the previous installments.

If people don't know, there's a page for more recent games in the FF wiki called "Allusions" that document these moments for you.

Sometimes FF14 does spend a whole lot of time focused on one installment, but it's not to the point of plagiarism.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Doubt it. That guy lives in his own world and anything outside that doesn't exist. I seriously think the dude is mentally ill.

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No, his ego is just mammoth sized.

We still paying attention to Aveyond and his soapbox? The guy who once said that women who are a 3 shouldn't criticise hotter guys who are an 8? There are plenty of other people who can point out the faults of the game while having a measured, sane response - engage with those folks instead, not the old guy shaking his walking stick ranting at the clouds.

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No, his ego is just mammoth sized.

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On behalf of all mammoths , I OBJECT

https://media.tenor.com/w7y63X9CLWcA...-can-annoy.gif

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Originally Posted by astercantus

We still paying attention to Aveyond and his soapbox? The guy who once said that women who are a 3 shouldn't criticise hotter guys who are an 8? There are plenty of other people who can point out the faults of the game while having a measured, sane response - engage with those folks instead, not the old guy shaking his walking stick ranting at the clouds.

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I just needed some salt for my popcorn. It's about all he's good for.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I just needed some salt for my popcorn. It's about all he's good for.

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It's entertaining while bored at work too.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

The only copy-pasted story with FF4 are just the characters alone. Nothing in the story is beat for beat a plot point from FFIV. We didnt climb Mt.Ordeals for our WoL to become a Paladin only to get ambushed by Scarmiglione, we didnt climb the Tower of Zot to save a Scion only to get ambushed by Barbariccia, the twins didnt sacrifice themselves when Cagnazzo showed up at the last minute and Rubicante didnt guard the crystals at the Tower of Babel. Again, the story presented is original with the whole aspect of the void and the 13th, just with some FFIV flavor characters slapped into it with new meaning. The FF games have done this crap before and nobody complained about it.

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We also didn't get back stabbed by Estinien cause something felt like brainwashing him again while having to deal with a deamon door all because he also has feelings the person we have high romantic feelings for. Or thar we had to fight someone's dead and semi brainwashed parents that beg us to kill them before fighting Rubicante. Though I guess the fighting dead parents part could happen in 6.4.

With 6.3 is pretty much the same old stuff. The extreme fight with the line puzzle memorization was not good because you knew that each time that puzzle came up you are stuck, like a cut scene you cannot skip. The music in the extreme fight was annoying. The 24 man trial was fine though the music and characters from the last one were more entertaining visually and vocally. The main story line was not fun to read the build up. We need more voices in the main story. Both in cutscene and out of cutscene. Otherwise I just skip the the pages of reading.

Exploring the dungeon after we beat it needs more non predictable stuff. Like this time around we knew that we have to do something non engaging to get through the dungeon. I don’t like my time is wasted with clicking and waiting on sparkling objects. Perhaps add secret items that are worth discovering. Maybe add a counter to our hud that shows us 3/7 secrets found in location. Maybe some fun easter egg moments. I’d rather my time be entertaining instead of yeah just get me out of here already so I can continue to story and get to the combat.

After seeing all the comments about FF4 it made me think that one of the reasons I am finding the MSQ so boring post 6.0 is I have no attachments to the characters they are using since I have never played FF4. It seems like some of the commentary about how good the story is comes from a bit of nostalgia from FF4 being put into FF14. Again, I just wish the post 6.0 stuff was an original story where we just set off on our own as the WoL to explore new things and places and meet new people (who could carry over into 7.0) instead of using old IP and the same characters over.

Also for those using Mr. Happy as their retort to the OP, you have to also realize that the people who watch and comment on his videos are going to be the people that love the game and aren't going to be overly critical of it, not to defend the OP's sometimes way out there opinions.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

...and I'll be playing Hogwarts Legacy.

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Obligatory: So...why are you still here then?

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Also glad to know that this game is so rich in story and content to discuss and play through that FFXIV youtubers have resorted to using my threads for videos. I suppose I should welcome the attention, nevertheless I stand by pretty much everything I've said and can only hope that the only way forward from here is up. Unfortunately me thinking that back in 6.2 did not save 6.3 from being as underwhelming as it was. I'd really like it if the game would go back to cutting out the busywork and delivering more entertaining patch stories like it did in previous expansions instead of the state of things being excused as ok "because it's filler."

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...but this I have to ping on:

Which one?

Without looking it up, can you tell me right now what happened in 2.3?

3.3?

4.3?

MAYbe you can tell me what happened in 5.3 (because it was unusually significant), but what about 5.2 and 5.4?

Yes, "filler" happens from time to time. Not everything is or was filler, and some exposition isn't bad for the slow kids in class or new players that haven't been absorbing all this lore and information for nearly a decade. Not to mention there has been new lore revealed, though you probably missed it by having your angry-goggles on as you did the MSQ. Namely, some hints at who Golbez might be and what he may have done to get there. And we also got to see the 13th - the actual world, not little sections of it - for the first time. Which is a pretty big lore reveal.

Opinions are opinions, but seriously, not every patch is a 5.3. I'd be interested in hearing you answer - without looking them up - what happened in those other patches and how they were all better than this one.

Do not waste my time like this MSQ did, shouldn't decent writers strive for better?[/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by Amenara

Also for those using Mr. Happy as their retort to the OP, you have to also realize that the people who watch and comment on his videos are going to be the people that love the game and aren't going to be overly critical of it, not to defend the OP's sometimes way out there opinions.

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So....are you saying their opinions arnt valid?
I think its perfectly valid to have opinions on both sides. People who like the game and disagree with OP, and people who dont like the game/things about it and support OP.
I think being a youtuber/Figure and being a fan or not of said figure shouldn't have any baring on that.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

Also for those using Mr. Happy as their retort to the OP, you have to also realize that the people who watch and comment on his videos are going to be the people that love the game and aren't going to be overly critical of it, not to defend the OP's sometimes way out there opinions.

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Wait, so your rebuttal is only people who are unhappy and dislike the game are allowed to offer retorts? OP linked to (mostly one poster) on Reddit (who might be his alt for all we know; he didn't link the thread so we could see if it was a common opinion or not) who dislikes the game as a source. I'm pretty sure using Mr Happy, if he's making reasonable points, is fair play. Likewise, if the people commenting on his video are making reasonable points, it is again fair play.

Them not being overly critical of the game is, itself, a rebuttal: If OP was as correct as he seems to think he is, then EW would be universally reviled. That it is not indicates that he is probably...shall we say overstating his case.

People who like a thing are allowed to be a source of rebuttal against people who dislike a thing. Imagine if we reversed this and said "Only people who like a thing may offer critiques or rebuttals, because clearly anyone who dislikes it is going to be overly critical of it and so we cannot use them as unbiased or reasonable sources, and only those that love it are going to be fair in their appraisals"? That would make no sense, either.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

So....are you saying their opinions arnt valid?
I think its perfectly valid to have opinions on both sides. People who like the game and disagree with OP, and people who dont like the game/things about it and support OP.
I think being a youtuber/Figure and being a fan or not of said figure shouldn't have any baring on that.

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And here are people who are stating the OPs opinions aren't valid like you are accusing me of saying of Mr. Happy's viewers, which I am not saying. I am just saying there is a certain point of view you will get from his video comments as the more dedicated and positive part of the fanbase are going to be his viewers just like if you go to reddit you will find the more positive part of the fanbase and the official forums has the more negative part of the fanbase.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Wait, so your rebuttal is only people who are unhappy and dislike the game are allowed to offer retorts? OP linked to (mostly one poster) on Reddit (who might be his alt for all we know; he didn't link the thread so we could see if it was a common opinion or not) who dislikes the game as a source. I'm pretty sure using Mr Happy, if he's making reasonable points, is fair play. Likewise, if the people commenting on his video are making reasonable points, it is again fair play.

Them not being overly critical of the game is, itself, a rebuttal: If OP was as correct as he seems to think he is, then EW would be universally reviled. That it is not indicates that he is probably...shall we say overstating his case.

People who like a thing are allowed to be a source of rebuttal against people who dislike a thing. Imagine if we reversed this and said "Only people who like a thing may offer critiques or rebuttals, because clearly anyone who dislikes it is going to be overly critical of it and so we cannot use them as unbiased or reasonable sources, and only those that love it are going to be fair in their appraisals"? That would make no sense, either.

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Again I am not saying their opinions aren't valid, I am just pointing out that you are going to have a certain over saturated viewpoint on his videos, just like you might see a different over saturated viewpoint from a youtuber who has a more critical reception to things in the game. I agree 100% that the OP way overstates problems with the game and plays fast and loose with what are factual or not, but if you look past that you can see some valid thoughts and opinions that shouldn't be shut down because he goes to the extreme.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

And here are people who are stating the OPs opinions aren't valid like you are accusing me of saying of Mr. Happy's viewers, which I am not saying. I am just saying there is a certain point of view you will get from his video comments as the more dedicated and positive part of the fanbase are going to be his viewers just like if you go to reddit you will find the more positive part of the fanbase and the official forums has the more negative part of the fanbase.

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I didnt accuse you of anything, I asked you a question; Clarification based on what you said and how it reads.
People need to stop getting defensive lol.
But, they are entitled to that point of view. Just like OP and his supporters.

Sorry, it's easy to imply tone on the internet. I agree, everyone is entitled to an opinion but at the same time when people on both sides are bashing each other or exaggerating opinions to be facts it takes away from a good discourse we could be having.

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If OP was as correct as he seems to think he is, then EW would be universally reviled.

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Given that

It was so sold out that Square had to cease sales
It has received massively good reviews everywhere
The forums are a tiny scant fraction of a percentage of the entire playerbase
That Aveyond has NOT ONCE replied to anyone calling him out
That the game continues to grow

..Id say that Aveyond's claims of "everyone hating the game" resembles the truth in the same way a steaming pile of fwe resembles a gourmet meal

I dont know. Maybe im still upset that I didn't enjoy 6.0. We went from shadowbringers to this expansion and im still wondering if the bar was set way too high. I will just wait and see what they decide to do with 7.0. Not to compare to wow but its a great example. The ending of the burning crusade was imprisoning sargeras and before he was imprisoned he stabbed azeroth. Blizzard left that sword there 3 expansions now without explaining the meaning of it or saying what its purpose is. I hope we don't get that same treatment with this expansions unanswered questions

I mean, you are correct in how MrHappy alone isn't a good argument. He's not just a youtuber doing things for views, it is in his best interest to not be critical as possible. Only when it's really necessary to offer feedback and ask for changes, and even then it's only until after it's blown up into a community-wide issue rather than something he comes up with himself. Most of his suggestions before PLD got reworked are specifically stuff I had seen in these forums before he ever made a video on them.

I think the key takeaway people get out of MrHappy's video is how he acknowledges the thread, acknowledges OP, and then he presents his stuff forward. It's not the first time a thread by Aveyond-Dreams is commented on by a notorious youtuber in the community; Zepla did so this last year. It's just that she didn't comment further on it, nor even comment on OP directly. So it's more so the acknowledging of who he was that piled on to what Happy had to say.

Now, my opinion as someone who does have gripes with SE and DOES get critical of the story, I think that while 6.3 is indeed on the weaker side, it's nowhere near the absolute calamity OP is making it to be. It's a quieter patch, there isn't much else to do other than establish Zero and give us some progression. Is she doing leaps and bounds through it? In my opinion, which does differ from what I've seen in other pages, is that it's not really "fast" so much as it's "the only thing going for us". She's the one that we focus on the most, and it took her 3 patches to finally start agreeing to do stuff without pay. Past that, she had always had an itch she didn't quite understand and now, with one memory back, she can start giving it shape.

In other patches I feel like we had more to do. Here, we're establishing Zero and we're establishing Golbez. I DOUBT Golbez is the major antagonist for the next expansion. We'll likely be done with him in 6.5. But there isn't much else, so naturally all the spotlight will be given to Zero and Golbez. And they will need to do stuff rather than be stagnant. We could afford a slower build in previous patches because there was a lot going on. But now, the only thing that we're focusing on is these two. Which is why it's quiet.

As for the characters themselves... eh? Call Zero cliché'd, it's Final Fantasy, that's par for the course. I've honestly seen worse. Call Golbez bland and a rip-off, we just haven't seen enough of him to fully pin down what he's meant to be or represent.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Given that

It was so sold out that Square had to cease sales
It has received massively good reviews everywhere
The forums are a tiny scant fraction of a percentage of the entire playerbase
That Aveyond has NOT ONCE replied to anyone calling him out
That the game continues to grow

..Id say that Aveyond's claims of "everyone hating the game" resembles the truth in the same way a steaming pile of fwe resembles a gourmet meal

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More so that his idea that "everyone hates the game" is him exaggerating. People are critical of the game. People definitely get angry at SE. But people aren't bulldozing this just because they have frustrations.

Is 6.3 a bit weaker and people are critical on it? Maybe. Does that mean it's hated or the worst they've sunk? Girl, we haven't gotten friggin' 3.5 Diadem Weapons, it ain't that bad xD

On the other hand, he does have frustrations, and if you dare go against his view of the game, he thinks you're problematic. When, really, he's the one with an inflexible view of what the game should be and what the franchise does.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

That the game continues to grow

..Id say that Aveyond's claims of "everyone hating the game" resembles the truth in the same way a steaming pile of fwe resembles a gourmet meal

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It's been a pleasure to log in and see so many people everywhere, partyfinder active, short queues, etc.

Weird type of hate indeed.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

Sorry, it's easy to imply tone on the internet. I agree, everyone is entitled to an opinion but at the same time when people on both sides are bashing each other or exaggerating opinions to be facts it takes away from a good discourse we could be having.

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Except its not even up for debate, OP feels very strongly that he could have written a better story with each new patch and won’t listen to anyone who does not agree with him or happens to /gasp……actually like parts of the story, so it’s not a discourse, he’s not looking for a conversation, he just wants to show how much “better” HE would have done things.

All in all, it’s narcissistic traits and careful trolling, seeing he also slightly pushes the limits of what can be said on the forum with many statements about female characters that you happen to find in memes online about “nice guys”.

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Originally Posted by Elissar

It's been a pleasure to log in and see so many people everywhere, partyfinder active, short queues, etc.

Weird type of hate indeed.

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You're doing it wrong. If you want real proof of a ded game queue for Ifrit EX n see how long it takes to get a pop. Crazy stuff

I just wanna ask, does he have a problem with the buuz scene?

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Originally Posted by Graeham

We agree with the tread. Guild must get Ikawa remove to bring back No Shadow God. Only by make personal attak on career can this happen. Also remove English translator because is support Venar. Guild is bringing the torch and the fork for revenger.

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. I keep seeing this guy does anyone know what he's trying to say. Best I can figure he's trying to career assassinate the shadow god?

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Originally Posted by Sklaf

. I keep seeing this guy does anyone know what he's trying to say. Best I can figure he's trying to career assassinate the shadow god?

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He uses an auto text generator most likely or smoked the first herb he saw on his Island Sanctuary.

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

He uses an auto text generator most likely or smoked the first herb he saw on his Island Sanctuary.

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I want some of whatever he is on, it looks like a great time.

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Originally Posted by hagare

I just wanna ask, does he have a problem with the buuz scene?

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Yes he hates it. Not as much as the burger, but 100% feels the animation budget shouldn't have been used on that. And this is before we even get to see what the rest went to in Hildibrand as that's in 6.35. Or the weapon quest line continuation. Cause we do know Geralt looks to be body slamming some poor sod.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Yes he hates it. Not as much as the burger, but 100% feels the animation budget shouldn't have been used on that. And this is before we even get to see what the rest went to in Hildibrand as that's in 6.35. Or the weapon quest line continuation. Cause we do know Geralt looks to be body slamming some poor sod.

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https://media.tenor.com/ncHwlj4_05gA...kermit-nod.gif
can't wait for .05 myself

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

1) 7-8 paragraphs isnt lengthy.

2) I dont immediately buy that someone hates EVERYTHING in a game, that they are willing to be a repeat customer to and provide feedback on whether in a weird, yet funny way of writing it out.



But he isnt sticking around...he is unsubbing and resubbing for a new patch full of story. People do realize you can buy a finite amount of sub time to tourist a new patch then leave until new content right?

Also, what is this headcanon about taking off work to play the game coming from?

I will say the borderline hatred of Y'shtola is comedic.

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Idk what planet you live on where you think 7-8 paragraphs of non stop complaining isnt lengthy. Secondly not sure if you're an alt account of this guys' or why you're so adamant on defending him. Mans has almost 2k posts and almost all of them is nothing but complaining or talking trash to people who do enjoy the game lol.

It does not surprise me that the stories in the 6.x patches feel less than what we had in the previous patches. The main story writing team stepped back and are letting their understudies take over for these patches. It is unconfirmed if they are returning for 7.0 or 7.x patches but considering the reception and how things are going, including sub numbers, I expect they will return.

For me, the game kind of fell off a cliff after we got past 6.0. I understand that they wanted to bring us down from the super high levels we obtained but this feels more like controlled flight into terrain, aka, they crashed us into the ground because they descended too hard and too fast. After 6.0, my character felt like Sad Keanu just sitting around, unemployed, and unwanted vs the glorious feelings I had at the end of 5.0. It doesn't matter how good the meal is if the aftertaste is awful...

I have a feeling that FF16 got its PC version cut because they needed to bring back the developers from 16 to shore things up. The only thing I can hope is that they did FF16 because they couldn't get a large development budget for future upgrades, so they made 16 and hid the future upgrades for 14 in the 16 budget. It makes sense if you think about it, everybody who is making 16 is from the 14 team and what they made and learned there can be brought back, possibly even the graphics engine for 8.0.

Regardless, we need those Devs back or this game is going to start to go in the wrong direction fast, public opinion and perception are terribly fluid. Once people think that the game is in decline, it will take 10 times more work to counter that perception or direction, even if they are incorrect. Opinions and perceptions are incredibly powerful in either direction with mountains of work to go up and a drop of a feather to fall... and the feather is quivering...

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

It does not surprise me that the stories in the 6.x patches feel less than what we had in the previous patches. The main story writing team stepped back and are letting their understudies take over for these patches. It is unconfirmed if they are returning for 7.0 or 7.x patches but considering the reception and how things are going, including sub numbers, I expect they will return.

For me, the game kind of fell off a cliff after we got past 6.0. I understand that they wanted to bring us down from the super high levels we obtained but this feels more like controlled flight into terrain, aka, they crashed us into the ground because they descended too hard and too fast. After 6.0, my character felt like Sad Keanu just sitting around, unemployed, and unwanted vs the glorious feelings I had at the end of 5.0. It doesn't matter how good the meal is if the aftertaste is awful...

I have a feeling that FF16 got its PC version cut because they needed to bring back the developers from 16 to shore things up. The only thing I can hope is that they did FF16 because they couldn't get a large development budget for future upgrades, so they made 16 and hid the future upgrades for 14 in the 16 budget. It makes sense if you think about it, everybody who is making 16 is from the 14 team and what they made and learned there can be brought back, possibly even the graphics engine for 8.0.

Regardless, we need those Devs back or this game is going to start to go in the wrong direction fast, public opinion and perception are terribly fluid. Once people think that the game is in decline, it will take 10 times more work to counter that perception or direction, even if they are incorrect. Opinions and perceptions are incredibly powerful in either direction with mountains of work to go up and a drop of a feather to fall... and the feather is quivering...

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The people working on FF16 outside of a few noteable people like Soken, Yoshi-P, etc have not worked on FFXIV since HW, unless they've updated the information on who all is on the team working on XVI. So the story in EW has nothing to do with XVI.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

Again I am not saying their opinions aren't valid, I am just pointing out that you are going to have a certain over saturated viewpoint on his videos, just like you might see a different over saturated viewpoint from a youtuber who has a more critical reception to things in the game. I agree 100% that the OP way overstates problems with the game and plays fast and loose with what are factual or not, but if you look past that you can see some valid thoughts and opinions that shouldn't be shut down because he goes to the extreme.

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That's fair - IF we recognize the same thing in reverse. These forums are known to have an oversaturated critical poster base. And Reddit isn't much better. So by this token, we could point out that you have a certain over saturated viewpoint on these forums and on Reddit. Right?

Valid thoughts can and should be stated as such. His few half-valid points were drowned out by the rest of the gunk, which makes it hard to have a reasonable discussion. The false appeal to authority doesn't help. Though we CAN have a reasonable discussion over the reasonable points...but that would require the OP to engage with people critiquing his points and acknowledge and/or offer counters to their points, which he didn't do. Perhaps other people in the thread are doing it, but the OP kind of poisoned the waters from the start making it more difficult.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Regardless, we need those Devs back or this game is going to start to go in the wrong direction fast, public opinion and perception are terribly fluid. Once people think that the game is in decline, it will take 10 times more work to counter that perception or direction, even if they are incorrect. Opinions and perceptions are incredibly powerful in either direction with mountains of work to go up and a drop of a feather to fall... and the feather is quivering...

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While this CAN be true, it's probably not QUITE as true as you think.

Keep in mind FFXIV had stable sub numbers pre-6.0, and even pre-5.0. Yoshi P once said something to the general effect he was fine being a lower playerbase MMO (as long as it was profitable enough to keep the servers running, I guess), and had no ambitions to be the most played in the world or the WoW killer or whatnot. He seemed genuinely shocked with the 5.4/5.5 surge in players and then dismayed with 6.0 and the servers not being able to handle FFXIV being a victim of its own success. Not only did SE pause sales of the game, Yoshi P made a public apology to the players (and even non-player gamers that were trying to join in) over it and all the stuff they were trying to do to fix things. Nothing says "You've done an amazing job" like basically being sold out of every copy of the thing you're selling (or in this case, having servers so full people were waiting in ques for hours and thousands of players just to get in on it)

When the pandemic hit and a lot of people started playing MMOs (and games in general) to have a social outlet and something to do when stuck at home, it also happened to be at a time when WoW had one of their weakest expansions in history and a massive company scandal (or...like three of them or so), also at a time FFXIV expanded their free trial (critically acclaimed, etc etc), and we had a content drought in basically all MMOs at more or less the same time, where a bunch of YouTubers and content creators tried out FFXIV, leading to a glut of players just as EW launched, which is WHY (that and the pandemic breaking down supply lines) the servers had so many issues and they couldn't get new ones up to share the load, leading to a perfect storm.

The end result was FFXIV's playerbase basically doubled from somewhere in the 1.5-2.5 million to somewhere in the 3-5 million range. Possibly more.

Those people, keep in mind, the 1.5-2.5 million, were both enough to keep the game going and paying for itself (and a good chunk of SE's profits) AND were the people sticking with the game through Stormblood, arguably FFXIV's weakest expansion (it set a lot of things up, but was slow in a lot of places and seemed to suffer from the overly split focus). That is, this was the stable playerbase pre-5.0, pre-5.4/5.5 (the initial glut), and pre-6.0 (the massive hyper surge). That's FFXIV's "floor", so to speak.

So even if everything happened as you said and the fair-weather-players all quit...FFXIV would basically be back to where it was in 4.5-5.1 or so, which was a healthy place. So the (realizable) worst case scenario here isn't really end of the world terrible.

That said, it'd be nice to keep capturing lightning in a bottle again and again with FFXIV, and it's done so a number of times, so easily can again. But I think the doom and gloom is insanely premature. One can argue better to get ahead of things now before they get too terrible, but we really aren't on a "terrible" trend right now, either.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

That's fair - IF we recognize the same thing in reverse. These forums are known to have an oversaturated critical poster base. And Reddit isn't much better. So by this token, we could point out that you have a certain over saturated viewpoint on these forums and on Reddit. Right?

Valid thoughts can and should be stated as such. His few half-valid points were drowned out by the rest of the gunk, which makes it hard to have a reasonable discussion. The false appeal to authority doesn't help. Though we CAN have a reasonable discussion over the reasonable points...but that would require the OP to engage with people critiquing his points and acknowledge and/or offer counters to their points, which he didn't do. Perhaps other people in the thread are doing it, but the OP kind of poisoned the waters from the start making it more difficult.

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1. You're probably one of the most level headed people I have ever seen in a game forum
2. He did poison it right off the bat, because he isnt looking to have a conversation. He thinks everything in the game sucks, and he can do a better job with it all and anyone who disagrees you're a sheep or an SE shill. There was 0 chance this thread as a whole was going to be constructive or actually go anywhere from the start.

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Originally Posted by Plasma711

There was 0 chance this thread as a whole was going to be constructive or actually go anywhere from the start.

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Thats sadly most threads made by him.

What we're dealing with now is what post ARR is to everyone now. "The unbeatable slog that no one can wither the storm" Granted I think this is 100x better than post ARR. But thats the point, we ended a 10 year saga. Everything now is going to be set up for the next 10 year saga. If you dont like it right now, thats fine. But at the same time, I'm not entirely sure what people expected, especially with 6.3 given what the .3 patches have been like in the past full knowing EW concluded in full with 6.0. I could wager everything we have had from 6.1 until now will fit and make much more sense when the real stuff starts rolling, just like it did when we entered Heavensward. But thats just me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Plasma711

What we're dealing with now is what post ARR is to everyone now. "The unbeatable slog that no one can wither the storm" Granted I think this is 100x better than post ARR. But thats the point, we ended a 10 year saga. Everything now is going to be set up for the next 10 year saga. If you dont like it right now, thats fine. But at the same time, I'm not entirely sure what people expected, especially with 6.3 given what the .3 patches have been like in the past full knowing EW concluded in full with 6.0. I could wager everything we have had from 6.1 until now will fit and make much more sense when the real stuff starts rolling, just like it did when we entered Heavensward. But thats just me.

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https://media.tenor.com/pyGugHcm4XcA...the-office.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Plasma711

What we're dealing with now is what post ARR is to everyone now. "The unbeatable slog that no one can wither the storm" Granted I think this is 100x better than post ARR. But thats the point, we ended a 10 year saga. Everything now is going to be set up for the next 10 year saga. If you dont like it right now, thats fine. But at the same time, I'm not entirely sure what people expected, especially with 6.3 given what the .3 patches have been like in the past full knowing EW concluded in full with 6.0. I could wager everything we have had from 6.1 until now will fit and make much more sense when the real stuff starts rolling, just like it did when we entered Heavensward. But thats just me.

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Although didn't they state that they want to do shorter story arcs that doesn't span multiple expansions?

All in all, i hope they manage to re-establish an political undertone to the main plot again. Since that has been one of the games strongest points.