That cant be right. That would mean that a mentor actually gave correct information. Unless they were dual-boxing, then they could still be answering for the tank and therefore wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamsoap
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03-10-2022, 06:43 PMFrizze
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03-12-2022, 01:09 AMMonsterHugger"PLEASE take damage, I am begging you - wait, no, not THAT much damage" The SGE struggle.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherPerson
WAR barely needs a healer at all. I've seen some Expert Roulettes done with WAR and 3 DPS. -
03-12-2022, 01:28 AMDoc_Seraph
anytime I am "Kupo" and pulling mobs the wrong way always brings a lol kupo <3 because as tank I will simply state at the start of the duty "I am a tad under some influence lol" its fun times though kupo ^_^
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03-12-2022, 01:48 AMVhanja
Most of my random duty finders have been only positive experiences, but we did come across one of those guys... a DPS who ran all over the dungeon pulling mobs. I, as a Healer, was young and confused and I followed him, which ended up with both of us dying.
My reaction to this was to apologize to the party. The DPS' reaction was to continue to Leroy Jenkins the dungeon. The other guys tried to tell him it was the tank's call which mobs to pull, which made him reply sourly: "Well. I'll just stop helping, then!"
I have to admit, I was a bit shocked. Never before, or again, have I met a DPS with that kind of attitude. -
03-12-2022, 03:29 AMLaphicetTank was in the wrong there, dungeons are piss easy and you should be pulling at least two packs at all times. What actually happened there was the tank was being a brat and refusing to do THE SINGLE AOE it takes to pull that mob aggro back and then let both you and the DPS die so they could stroke their ego about it, probably. Which is why the DPS got so belligerent like that since the tank was refusing to do their job and hold aggro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhanja
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03-12-2022, 03:39 AMAvatreIt also depends on what dungeon it is, and what the DPS are. Low level dungeons not all DPS have an AoE, so it can take much, much, longer for the pack to die, with the healer ending up burning through all their kit(especially an inexperienced healer) and the tank burning through their CDs before even half the pack is dealt with. Not saying it's impossible, but since there as no specifying of what dungeon/levels it was for, it could be that the tank was doing it smart based on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laphicet
I do agree that in the higher levels, basically anytime after all DPS have at least 1 AoE, it should be at minimum 2 packs at a time. -
03-12-2022, 04:36 AMLiumOh, man. You just opened up a can of worms with this post. On the forums, it is the consensus that it's okay for the DPS to run around the entire dungeon and YOLO pull everything and should not be responsible for pulling said mobs back to the tank. Just look at the first response you got.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhanja
Thankfully, as you saw, the in-game attitude is quite different. The vast majority of your dungeon runs will be positive experiences, but every now and then, you'll get a group with a wierdo, like the DPS you encountered here. As a healer, you were in the right. I would just say stick by the tank. Leave the DPS to their own devices. Death is a great teacher. (I have WHM, AST and SGE at 90) -
03-12-2022, 06:10 AMArchlordPiePretty much this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lium
If I'm rouletting as a non-DPS and the group has a DPS who's Leeroying, I typically defer to whatever the other non-DPS wants. If I'm healer and the tank is ignoring the mobs the DPS pulled, I ignore the DPS and let the mobs kill them. If the tank pulls the mobs off the DPS, well, the mobs are on the tank now anyway so I'm healing the tank, and will most likely let the DPS sit at sub-50% health until the pull's over then toss them a regen or something between pulls. If I'm the tank, I'll ignore the fact that additional mobs got pulled unless 1) the DPS pulls them into my AoEs, in which case I naturally get aggro anyway and it's whatever, or 2) the healer starts devoting GCD heals to keeping the DPS alive. In that latter case, the DPS isn't going to learn their lesson anyway, so I may as well make the healer's life easier.
If I'm a DPS in expert roulette, everything's getting pulled and I'm parking on top of the tank until they establish aggro. I'm BiS and know my class (lul SMN main lul), so even if my co-DPS is a potato and both the tank and healer are minimum ilevel, the double pulls are still going to die well before the tank and healer run out of resources.
The only exception to me pulling for a slow tank is certain leveling dungeons. You can outright get stat-checked if you pull too much in some cases, and there are far more that are technically survivable but only if your whole group is coordinated and on point, and that's not happening in leveling roulette. -
03-12-2022, 10:44 AMRein_eon_OsborneNo context was given regarding which dungeon specifically and why the DPS would’ve run ahead everytime. I.e. Is the tank not sprinting? Is the tank keep falling behind? Is the tank single pulling all the time? Is it dungeon with dangerous mob like Bardam, or is it the complete opposite like Matoya’s Relict? And so on…Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhanja
But setting that aside, it is indeed rare to find any player in any role to verbally respond sourly like that. Mostly people just stayed silent even when they do run ahead… and it’s not a big deal most of time, really. You probably shouldn’t apologize there though, it really wasn’t your fault :(
===============
Going back to topic.. got Skalla from 50-80 roulette as a WAR. Queued together with my RDM friend. Our random matches were SGE & RPR. The latter is definitely a freshly unlocked RPR. Meanwhile the SGE… has abnormally lower HP than my RDM friend. About 5k lower. I examined their gear to find out their top piece…. the i130 Augmented Ironwork???? A few other pieces are also lower than even the SGE’s starter gears.
People, how do you manage to do this??? I ask, behind my monitor.
Needless to say, they hardly contribute. Whole pulls are spent to E.Diagnosis me that only healed me for like 2k+shield per shot as my character probably scoffed with Raw Intuition greatly outhealing their efforts. I saw a few DoT coming out in bosses but mostly are overwritten and instead of casting Dosis, they just sit next to the bosses spamming Dyskrasia.
As expected, they also died horribly in 3rd boss, my RDM friend was literally out of mana ressing them. They could not read the non-telegraphed attacks and their gear was definitely not helping them. At 30% left I just told my friend in the LS chat to ignore and just focus downing the boss.
My comm goes to the fresh RPR who actually presses buttons and know what they’re doing. -
03-12-2022, 11:12 AMKolsykolIf DPS does this and I am Tanking and it's clearly not a mistake I usually tell them to stop and if they continue doing it I'll just leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhanja
Ain't gonna entertain people trying to justify it on the forums, I mean it's valid to kick people for '' differences in gameplay style '' so it's okay to leave too people can have fun waiting for a new Tank then.
Especially since I do pull fast and it still happens I get people who intentionally do everything to pull ahead or pull more than we're capable of.
In the end of the day as the Tank I am in a better position to judge what me and the Healer can handle and often times when it happens the DPS aren't even paying attention to people going AFK.
People going on about egos and Tanks being brats etc is just ridiculous, the ones with actual ego problems and being bratty in this situation imo is the DPS running around pulling even when the Healer died because of what they did and people tell them to stop.
Like people are so ultra critical of Tanks but then they're going out of their way to be frustrating to play with.
People are so forgiving of the DPS tho. -
03-12-2022, 01:06 PMAnotherPerson
Tbh I got a sage in the Grand Cosmos. Fairly new to the job it seems, first time in the dungeon. Didn't realize all 3 people were new to the duty as well while I was the tank so... xD We wiped on the first boss three times? No amount of heart of stones, reprisals, heart of lights, and auroras can save them if they get swept away by the brooms a couple of times.
They were open to advice though, so I gave some for sage gameplay tips. Unfortunately, I think they eventually panicked and resorted to Prognosis spam and forgot what I said about using Physis II + Kerachole, and then haima or panhaima on every big pull. Not an issue with big pulls though, we cleared all of them outside of a couple of Superbolides. After the second boss (no wipes, but failed mechanics a lot. Thankfully there was a RDM, so recovery was pretty smooth), we went to the final boss.
Boy. Oh boy. XD We wiped a lot. I explained after the 2nd wipe the mechanics to the dungeon (red fire burns furniture, blue fire is instant death if you don't transfer the fire to the furniture). After the third (or fourth ?) wipe, we decided to have everyone burn the draperies first and the piano/stool for more room. They failed the left/right swipe and the aoe / marked cleaves a couple of times though. Usually about 50% we wiped. The second to last run had 38 minutes left on the duty. The final run people were doing alright until we went past the 50% mark. All 3 players would've died if I hadn't thrown both aurora and Heart of Stone on the sage in time. After that recovery, the RDM got back up, only for the sage to die. This was around 30% HP. The bard eventually goes down. I tried my best to keep them alive as they slowly picked everyone up. Another reprisal and everyone gets dangerously low (~1k hp). The bard dies, followed by the sage. We eventually clear it.
That was a really long duty, haha. I ended up getting so used to tanking with a high hp that the next dungeon roulette I joined as a healer instantly melted me because I forgot I can't take AoEs, especially not in bardam's mettle. I went from full hp to 0 in 2 overlapping hits, haha. A slight mishap near the end of the first wall to wall pull, but no one else died outside me since the whole pack was nearly dead when I forgot to move out of the line of fire in time. That run went really well. We had a full wall-to-wall pull every time, deleted the enemies without issue, beaten up the final boss and skipped the add phase. If I didn't know better, I'd say that could've been one of my fastest Bardam runs if I hadn't accidentally died at the beginning by accident. xD -
03-12-2022, 05:07 PMJatoi
Sprout tank in a level 50+ heavensward dungeon, I forget the name but it was snowy. I am the healer and I noticed when he pulled, the mobs weren't turned away and people were getting cleaved by cone AOEs. I was very polite in advising him to turn the mobs away as to not have anyone get hurt, and he shirks me with the biggest out of the pull while going "you tank it then".
I respond, "I can as a DRK or PLD if you want". The DPS and I kill the thing he attacked me with, he keeps his mouth shut and for the rest of the dungeon he kept the things pointed away.
At least he took the advice but I never got shirked on out of spite before. -
03-12-2022, 08:28 PMVhanja
The dungeon in question was Copperbell Mines. The DPS ran in a completely different direction and so the party was split in two. Had he been able to kill them it would've been fine, but since we both died, it seems to me he should have left it to the tank.
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03-12-2022, 08:47 PMTheMightyMolluskChoose your battles carefully.Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterHugger
No, that's too many battles.
Still too many battles.
Put some battles back. -
03-13-2022, 03:18 AMKaoru_Nagisa
Today, I had a RPR teleporting ahead of me and popping their Crest as they pulled mobs. They did this the entire dungeon.
I took aggro off them without issues and continued on with my day.
The end. -
03-13-2022, 03:52 AMRein_eon_Osborne
Got Smileton from expert roulette. Queued as a SCH with my DNC friend.
DRK forgot to turn on tank stance. We wiped in first pack. They apologized then things went decent after. They did make more mistakes than your generic DF tanks, saying that they're not in their A-game, etc etc. At the end of the duty they apologized once more.
Look buddy, there's always that particular moment when you're just not 'there', and it's totally fine. I'm happy that you're honest with it and actually made the run slightly more interesting though. -
03-13-2022, 03:56 AMMiaShinoMah, quite like when deeps with engagement do this. Extra style points if they give us free arms length in process!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa
Kinda causes remembering to occur about our amazing pre maintenance Twining run. Five minutes until the kick, monk charging in with Thunderclap and me using Icarus plus rescue to give the tank extra engage. We were booted with two percent left on the second boss. Fricken swear that was about to be one seven minute or less clear of the Twinning. Almost wonder if we could have accidentally gotten world record! :D Wish every dungeon run was that much of the fun. -
03-13-2022, 03:49 PMCubsbane
Dear everyone but the main tank, probably B tank, in Labyrinth of the Ancients,
After doing his first Ancient Flare, Phlegethon can't move for a period of time. First he just stands still in the middle until the fire dissipates, then he can't go more than a few paces without casting something.
Unless you want me to just stand there and lob my enmity-generating attack at him from afar, I (B tank in this scenario) am going to be at max melee and then move only when he can. Be patient.
(I'm not tilted and no one said anything to me, but off-tanks get really antsy when he doesn't immediately start moving and try to take the boss, which just accomplishes turning him a bit and delaying the movement further.) -
03-13-2022, 07:15 PMDontReadThis
Dear off-tanks, please do not stand with the main tank in front of the first eyeball boss in world of darkness.
Also, please provoke when the main tank dies before the eyeball kills half the raid as it runs wild shooting its laser in random directions and auto attacking the dps doing the most damage and the healers trying their hardest to keep everyone alive. -
03-13-2022, 09:01 PMTheMightyMollusk
I wish people would stop holding the chains on Cerberus until they expire because they want that tiny bit of extra damage. This is not some bleeding-edge Savage content where we need every second of spare DPS to make the enrage timer. It's World of Darkness. He's more than halfway dead already. He'll die seconds into the second unchained phase. Just chain him back up so we can get on with it. Don't hold the chains and let him get up and start buffing up and one-shotting everyone. It's just wasting time.
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03-13-2022, 10:39 PMJatoi
Snowcloak, friend and I are doing this together in DF.
Tank did not do the Yeti mechanic with the snowballs despite my friend informing him of this mechanic. The tank even confirmed reading this with an "Okay!" and still didn't do anything.
I even tried moving the spriggans myself into the way of the boss but the tank is neatly scrunched against the wall, so I can't run past them to do this.
This took way too long and was a fat waste of time. -
03-14-2022, 01:12 AMCedane
the other day, I was leveling up on my dancer. I got the level 71 dungeon and just dancing the light away. The last boss, apparently my damage was so much that I stole the aggro from the tank and was being chased for over a minute.
I had to stop attacking just so the tank could grab the hate again. I have no idea what happened for that never happened in the whole dungeon. -
03-14-2022, 05:37 AMVahlnirUnless that tank was legit AFK, d/cing, shirked you or they turned their stance off, there is almost no way for them to lose enmity to a dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedane
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03-14-2022, 07:21 AMHyoMinParkThis sooooo much. I don’t know why people have started doing this again. This isn’t ARR. We won’t even come close to seeing this mechanic a second time. He doesn’t even cough up the second Slabber puddles anymore. Just attach the stupid chains. I’ve almost made it a point to hover by them so that I can do one of the chains when I get WoD in the roulette. I don’t trust the other people in the alliance to not try the ridiculous hold strat. Like it actually matters 8 years later…Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
So many times people holding the chains leads to him getting his 16 stacks of damage up, and then we have to reset. The last time I was in WoD, I noticed someone standing there with the chain waiting; and I knew it was going to reset—in case people don’t realize, you cannot hold the chains for forever, they do eventually reset back to the mechanisms. I waited by the mechanism just knowing they weren’t going to attach it in time, grabbed it the second it disappeared from them, and ran back as fast as the game lets you while transporting to try and chain him before Reawakening finished casting. I just barely made it back in time to prevent a wipe. -
03-14-2022, 07:44 AMCedaneI know which bothers me and I've no idea what even happened!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
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03-14-2022, 12:41 PMCubsbane
That reminds me, the other day in WoD we had an unusually competent group... but still wiped to Cerb because of chains.
But even worse, for me, is that he put his slobber right on top of the gastric orb's puddle, which is where I was standing, and it sucked me in and Cerb killed me before the orb went off. There was only a very small portion that wasn't overlapped, I'd never seen it that bad before. Luckily one of the other alliances had healers that were bored of older content (I noticed them healing other people the whole instance) and one rezzed me and kept me alive and safe before I got vored finally. -
03-14-2022, 05:43 PMFayt1203Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
Think the reason is that it's still refer in a lot of online guides. Also could be because some people has done it so often that it's just burn in their routine.
Will admit that i will do that sometimes when people are dying right and left or the dps is extremely low but when everything is going smoothly the chain goes straight on the dog -
03-14-2022, 05:55 PMCincierta
Hello darkness my old friend.
Brayflox Longstop normal for context, tank used no noticeable cooldowns to lessen their squish. I ate the 30.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ishdrktank.png -
03-14-2022, 07:25 PMCubsbaneWell, in principle they should have actually gotten something to put on but right side doesn't matter all that much at that level so they shouldn't have been too sqi-- wait that's the level 20 free company gearQuote:
Originally Posted by Cincierta
wait that's the CRYSTARIUM HELM
aaa -
03-14-2022, 07:29 PMMiaShinoHey Square for the love of the fricken twelve fix the ilvl requirements... while you are doing this stop allowing tanks to equip disciple of war stuffs. Many thanks! Because your community is of the umm more spechul variety.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincierta
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03-14-2022, 07:49 PMeinschwartz
I ordered lunch for the family that day. Had an hour until food arrives. Enough time to at least run Trial and Normal Raids roulette.
30 mins later while I'm halfway through P2N, the food rider called.
Wth this is way too early!
Apparently the restaurant I ordered from was closed. We had no idea how the order even got through.
Because of this, I had to urgently afk the rest of the fight. I was on healer so I felt even more guilty.
While going through the process of canceling my order through the app (which annoyingly had lots of steps) and order something else, people tried to keep me alive.
I saw heals received from war and gnb.
When I died, the coheal, rdm and smn alternating their raise to my dead body.
"Thank you guys.. but I'm sorry..." I said as I frantically tapped my phone, shedding tears. ( •́ω•̩̥̀ ) -
03-14-2022, 09:17 PMKaoru_NagisaThe amount of times I've seen Cerberus just decide "screw this raid in particular" with his Slabber placement is far more than I'd like. It isn't even something that can be blamed on players, as Gastric Juice spawns beforehand so how the heck will anyone know where Cerb will decide to spit up at?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubsbane
Thankfully doesn't happen super duper often, but boy, it sure does enough times to make me annoyed. -
03-14-2022, 09:55 PMShibiBut, is that the redbill scarf from the Void Ark chain? They really should know better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincierta
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03-15-2022, 12:01 AMHyoMinParkThe online guides I could understand—if people read one of those to prep, and think it’s still a valid strat, that’s a bit understandable. However I just find it strange to see it firing up so much now in EW (and in late ShB). I never saw chain holding in HW or SB when I’d get WoD, and I ran it a lot back then. Especially in HW since CT was tied to a relic step. But this was also back when people didn’t really do A - adds, B - belly, and C - chains (at least not on Aether—I didn’t start seeing that until late SB, early ShB). Back then it was more common to just see all DPS go into the stomach while tanks took care of Wolfsbane and healers stayed out to watch the tanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt1203
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03-15-2022, 01:52 AMDanielNegreanu_Adamantoise
Y’all don’t be too hard on tanks, square withholds the best most necessary cooldown until late game.
No clear guide on when to use what, no clear indication about whether or not they did a good job mitigating.
I never got so much shit as when I started tanking, and you look at how in demand tanks are still, how much shít they get when starting out, and how we don’t get the good stuff until 70 and 82 unless you are warrior.
Bleh -
03-15-2022, 02:28 AMRein_eon_OsborneMy instant healer ques and 5m - 7m tank queue time begs to differ. This almost always happens even though everything are listed as "Tank in need."Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise
If any, I'm of the opinion that people are getting babied too much with WAR's shenanigan that they know less how to survive or handle other tanks.
========================================
Anyway... returning to the topic...
Dead Ends Roulette (cause why not? said game roulette) as an AST with my DNC friend. The random pair are PLD and RPR. Everything went ever so smoothly until after 2nd boss where the PLD begins herp-derping the rest of the duty.
First they stop doing wall pulls and stick to single pull.
(Okay...? That's fine I guess, maybe they suddenly need to give somebody attention behind that monitor.. I know my doggoh loves to murder me like this, too...)
They also stopped using their defensive cooldowns.
(...Excuse me? Well not that they need it in single pull anyways)
Moving onto 2nd wall. RPR just ran ahead to pull everything. PLD complies to pull the aggro off. This time I see cooldowns but unlike the first 2/3 of the run, it is used rather poorly. Needless to say, it's not a big deal.
Fast forward to Ra-la... holy. PLD starts eating tankbuster unmitigated, eating red carpets like cookies. They eventually died to 2nd set of Prance steps. RPR is our tank now. I insta-raised the PLD but Provoke was never cast. We ended up letting the RPR tank the rest of the encounter.
Again.. that was one weird of the sudden change in performance. I hope that PLD was doing alright... -
03-15-2022, 02:34 AMVahlnirFor new tanks I'm pretty understanding. But the one pictured above was clearly not new. They were just lazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise
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03-15-2022, 02:38 AMDanielNegreanu_Adamantoise
Well you should probably be doing single pulls if you are out of defensive cooldown, except maybe Shelton. I’d be surprised if he forgot that.
Was he at least getting off holy spirits during req?
It’s not uncommon for inexperienced tanks to kitchen sink a wall pull then have nothing left for next.
And yeah that’s exactly the point there’s nothing in this game that teaches you what to do.
https://i.redd.it/68rwy5qu3qz71.png -
03-15-2022, 02:50 AMDubiousDisk
Just happened, just left the run.
Healer and DPS duo in Dead Ends, kept dying to the first AOe(the one you can literally Esuna to avoid death if you get hit).
After the 3rd wipe, I just opened my mouth and told them, they proceeded to both flame me, and die again to it. I left.
I have noticed a huge increase in toxic healers in Expert roulettes that I just refuse to deal with, rather wait 30 minutes than do a whole run with John and Jane Doe the duo queue couple that refused to learn the game 90 levels in. -
03-15-2022, 02:54 AMLiumYeah, the tank in that post looked like they have the Crystarium helm and the Void Ark scarf on the right side, so based on that, I'm guessing this is an alt job. In which case, they should know better. As a healer I'm SUPER lenient with tanks. To the point I get salty if I feel someone is disrespecting them and am always quick to encourage them and have their back in dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
But in a case like this, where it's clear they aren't really trying I'd be a little perturbed. There's a actually a couple pulls in Brayflox where you do have to be careful. Specifically, on the way to the second boss, where it's very easy to aggro the whole map.