How would identify a female player guy/girl?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saber_alter

*looks at op*

fuck identification, use gender neutral identifiers until your told otherwise.

---

English isn't geared well towards gender neutral without sounding really awkward. Just refer to characters by their apparent gender until corrected.

Any player of a male character who gets offended at being called "he" or a player of a female character that gets offended at being called "she" really isn't worth wasting any sympathy on. Fortunately, such people, if they even exist, are quite rare; most people either flat-out don't care what pronoun you use, or will gently correct you if they don't want to be referred to by the gender of their character.

There are a number of unflattering stereotypes I could apply to the sort of people who devote so much effort to trying to figure out the gender of a person playing a video game. "Heavy mouth-breathing closet case" comes to mind, though I'm not directing that at anyone in specific. Just a vague feeling of unease at the idea that people still obsess over this thing.

Let me give you a dose of reality; if I wanted you to know, I'd tell you. If you weren't creepy and just -asked me- like a normal human being capable of thought and emotional depth, I might also tell you. If I'm not telling you, and you don't have the grace to ask politely, it's not something you need to worry about.

A person is more than their gender, more than their preferences. Try getting to know us for who we are before you start worrying about what's beneath our attire. Otherwise, you're just being shallow, and creepy, and there's a long line of shallow and creepy people in my ignore lists.

You could just, you know, ask the person if it matters to you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

As someone who read everything in this thread since this morning since it was a light day at work up until now that I got home from work I can conclude that....this thread never made any progress even after 39 pages. Just plain ol bickering about each other's beliefs. Aaahhhh.....*sips wine* just another day in the forums...

---

It's a bit of a shame indeed that there has been little to none serious discussion about this, until the last couple pages, only waffling.

But what does science has to say about this? *adjusts glasses*

According to this interesting article.

EQII: 7,129 players (5,719 males and 1,406 females) participated in the survey in just over 2 days.

I will try to abstract the findings here:

• Females were older and better educated but slightly poorer than males.
• Females were much more likely to be bisexual.
• Male players were more achievement oriented, while females more by social reasons.
• Females played more than males, were less likely to play another MMO or quit the game in the near future.
• Both players in romantic relationships were conform to stereotypical gendered roles. Namely females being less aggressive and males slightly more if playing with a partner.
• Females were happier than males (less) if playing with a partner. The causality however is not clear!
• Males reported a higher BMI than females - being in better shape than the national average. While males BMI reports were nearly the same as the average.
• Females had more underreporting of their play time than males. (3h less for females vs. 1h less for males)
• 61% of females to 24% of males regularly play with a partner.
• Women in relationships tend to be less social than men, again, causality is unclear!

And another one.

WoW: 375 participants (56% male and 44% female).

Quote:

---

The groups we used were women who use a female avatar (W/Fav), men who use a male avatar (M/Mav), and men who gender-switch by using a female avatar (M/Fav) in study sessions.

---

• 23% of men and 7% of women gender-switched
• Action directive statements were more common among men, and the other chat variables were more common among women.
• Both (W/Fav) and (M/Fav) were more likely to make an attractive character and use traditional hairstyles.
• Emotional phrases, exclamation points and smile emoticons were used the most by (W/Fav), followed by (M/Fav) and (M/Mav).
• Appreciation phrases, polite phrases and action directive don't show significant differences.
• Moving backwards was mostly prevalent with (M/Mav) followed by (M/Fav) and (F/Fav).
• (M/Mav) stayed .15 yards away from their group compared to (F/Fav), (M/Fav) being in between the two.
• (M/Fav) jumped about 112 times more than (F/Fav).

Too bad the last one doesn't include (F/Mav) type of players, that would be highly interesting.

http://i.imgur.com/u4wvtKl.jpg

I am an older female gamer but I never let anyone know online what gender i am only because of some of the tells I get just being a female avatar. In the end, who really cares unless of course you are looking for an online date lol.

was hoping this thread would disappear lol some1 bumped it again = =

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I won't be steamrolled by your bluster and ignorance. Statistics are how you quantify research, and how you prove a hypothesis. Psychology is a medical science, you talked of trusting academics earlier, so you can hardly dismiss psychology with a wave of your hand now. Not to mention the obvious point that choice of avatar gender is clearly something that psychology would illuminate.

---

Ignorant of what exactly? This is your own little soap box thing over explaining why tally marks from a random sample of 375 people needs a peer review. If I could find another study I would, but this is the only one I've found without pure EQ data from a decade ago. You are chasing your tail here until you offer evidence to the contrary. I think ~25% and ~7% are accurate.

This is way off topic, but please do no mock the fields that did this study while claiming Psychologists are medical scientists and statistical experts. Psychology is a soft science at best. It has its uses and I respect that but ultimately it proves absolutely nothing concretely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BunnyChain

Snip

---

That was incredibly interesting! Are there any more MMORPG studies like those out there?

<1/2>
I've been playing MMO's since 1999, and here's how I handle this "issue":

1.) Assume gender neutral until proven otherwise.
2.) Don't pursue romantic relationships in-game. If they happen on their own, well that's just fine.
3.) Remember that the girl character you're playing with could be a cool dude IRL. And the dude character could be a cool chick. Either could be quite the opposite as well so stop making assumptions.
4.) Don't make a situation awkward by acting based on assumptions. If you can't stomach the awkwardness of asking, then you probably can't stomach the results of your acting based on an assumption.
5.) Remember that 99% of the time, how a character looks in game is decided by what its player finds pleasing to look at. The fact that you find it pleasing to look at as well is irrelevant.

<2/2>
I play both male and female characters in the games I play. Sometimes I relate more to the character I'm playing and I roll a scrappy dude. Other times I feel more like I'm just a witness to my character's badassery and don't mind watching a heroine do her thing at my behest. But more frequently I make the decision based on the options available. In FFXIV, I originally rolled a skinny, feminine-looking "male" character (despite my best efforts to make him look macho), and once I equipped that bronze subligar I knew SE was trying to tell me something. So I changed up to a female because if I'm going to look at a virtual person's backside all day, it's going to be a female (no offense, men).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greekgeek

I read an entire study on this once, main detail that stuck in my head that actually has helped me spot guy/girl many times, Is that male tend to jump around alot when there moving/bored, were female players dont.

---

this might be typical but it isn't a rule.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myahele

I remember someone generally saying that that if you see a female character in revealing clothing its a guy. Whereas a female character that's fully clothed might be female irl

---

also typical but not a rule. I know many girls who prefer to use the looks they think best for the job they play. For instance a kunoichi(female ninja) has many ways to dress but often uses sex appeal or sexy dress as distraction so a skimpy dressed female ninja would not be unheard of even if played by a female.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terrini

Females tend to take a lot more care with their looks, ensuring classy combinations of color and style (they may also be gay men as females, but it's more likely they actually play a guy). Guys are more like complete the set, or go for an outlandish theme like pirate or classy Ninja or sexy cosplay. Girls just try to look good and coordinated.

---

I know quite a few guys who are OCD about their looks
also many girls who are OCD about completing gear sets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TruebladeNuke

I know a few female players who are actually into being skimpy with their female characters, so the idea of female players only play as female characters that are fully dressed or male characters to avoid being hit on is already debunked.

---

so sorry honestly the best way is to ask and hope they are honest. but really what does it matter unless you are actually going to meet them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jewelfox

Fact: If you're a guy and you hook up / Eternal Bond with someone with a female avatar, but then you find out that they're a male player, it makes you gay. As in, it literally changes your orientation to make you prefer guys.

After that, you develop a lisp and suddenly have to redecorate your apartment.

---

also I giggled lots at this :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

Ignorant of what exactly? This is your own little soap box thing over explaining why tally marks from a random sample of 375 people needs a peer review. If I could find another study I would, but this is the only one I've found without pure EQ data from a decade ago. You are chasing your tail here until you offer evidence to the contrary. I think ~25% and ~7% are accurate.

This is way off topic, but please do no mock the fields that did this study while claiming Psychologists are medical scientists and statistical experts. Psychology is a soft science at best. It has its uses and I respect that but ultimately it proves absolutely nothing concretely.

---

I take it then that you're a journalism major? XD

Come off it, you posted the linked study to support your statements, and now you can't deal with a bit of direct, and on target criticism? Communications, Information sciences, PR and Journalism are not disciplines that will help anyone understand why people choose their avatar gender and appearance, nor how male or female players betray their gender during play. You presented evidence, I pointed out the flaws in it. All you can do is attack me and dismiss the need for peer review, proper methodology and ignore the paltry sample size.

The ignorance is evident when you willfully dismiss and ignore psychology in favor of journalism, communications, Information "Science" and PR with respect to researching why people make gender choices for their avatar. I'm not mocking those fields (if I wanted to mock those fields I could do a damned sight better than this discussion), I am pointing out the obvious - they are not the appropriate fields in this regard. I'm not mocking those fields when I point to the lack of peer review in what you implied is an academic study. I'm not mocking them when I point to the lack of sample selection criteria, test methodology and control group, or a proper test of a hypothesis. Without those things, the 'study, is nothing more than a survey with a small sample size and conclusions drawn by people interested in the results they report.

BTW, I did not say that psychologists are statistical experts, I said that statistics are used as a tool to evaluate the results of research by quantifying and analyzing the outcome. Believe it or not, statistics are a tool that can be used without being an expert statistician.

I don't have to offer a shred of evidence to critique something. You offered conclusions, statistics and opinion as fact that you subsequently supported with a link to a 'study'. I've offered sound criticism of that study.

You know, for someone who thinks so little of statistical method and proving a hypothesis with statistics, you're awfully quick to pull numbers out of the air and challenge others to post alternate numbers. You can't have it both ways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I take it then that you're a journalism major? XD

Come off it, you posted the linked study to support your statements, and now you can't deal with a bit of direct, and on target criticism?

---

Ha, definitely not a journalism major. Do you see my grammar?

Your criticism is that only Psychologists can count. I disagree... I guess I can provide proof if that's what you need.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

Ha, definitely not a journalism major. Do you see my grammar?

Your criticism is that only Psychologists can count. I disagree... I guess I can provide proof if that's what you need.

---

I'm not going to chase you in circles any more, I have made my criticisms of your posted 'evidence' if your evidence and argument is so weak that it cannot stand scrutiny...so be it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

You are chasing your tail here until you offer evidence to the contrary. I think ~25% and ~7% are accurate

---

Some evidence that your statistics are nothing but conjecture.

1. The study was from a totally different game than FFXIV and you are trying to use it to insist that FFXIV will have the same outcome if they did a study. Do a study yourself based on FFXIV players or just drop it cause it is really pointless.

2. The other game the study was from is a lot older than FFXIV and the graphic styles are completely different from each other.

3. The other game is made by a NA gaming company, while FFXIV is from Japan which can have very different ideas of game design and culture.

4. 375 players is an immensely low sample size considering WoW is reported to have over a million players.

5. There is some overlap in gaming communities but there are also some people who have what you could call a cult following of a specific game and they do not play other MMO's than the one they like/enjoy the most. This makes FFXIV have partly its own community of different kinds of people. So you cannot assume that FFXIV's community will be extremely similar or if at all similar to other MMO communities.

6. You could do the study on FFXIV and find out is is 25% and 7%, then okay you found out, but until you do a study those numbers don't exist and you cannot just attach them to FFXIV's community just because you want to try to win an argument.

7. Please just stop posting now...you've already made quite the fool of yourself with saying things like if a woman says they are a woman they are asking for cyber sex or to be harassed.

If I gotta use a gender-specific pronoun I usually just go with whatever gender the character is which probably means I'm wrong fairly often, but I'm fine with being corrected if it matters to the player.

Personally, I just try to sidestep the entire issue and use proper nouns whenever I can.
Unless they've got a stupid/crass name. Then I just pretend they don't exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BunnyChain

snip

---

As far as stereotypes go, from my time in WoW the top section of your post highly seemed to apply. (in general, of course)
The second part are almost all things I never looked at.
They are interesting tho, I know I personally will stay away from groups as much as possible, as I am ever the Strategist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BunnyChain

Too bad the last one doesn't include (F/Mav) type of players, that would be highly interesting.

---

Woman playing male characters?! Surely if a scientific study makes no note if them, we can conclude that they really don't exist!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

Ha, definitely not a journalism major. Do you see my grammar?

Your criticism is that only Psychologists can count. I disagree... I guess I can provide proof if that's what you need.

---

You mention Psychology as a soft science. Sorry, but you just lost complete credibility as far as I'm concerned.
There is only one field of science that can be called a soft science that ultimately proves nothing, and that is statistics.
Because it is not a science wherein one thinks, only observes; rather then seek to understand.

Even journalism can't be considered a soft science.



But psychology? Not sure if you are serious here. I find it extremely odd that any scientist or thinker would consider the science of ''the human software, and it's relation to the human hardware'' a science that ultimately proves nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

Your criticism is that only Psychologists can count.

---

Psychology was the relevant field because of the conclusions they drew from their study. They used psychology to obtain their results.It's only the most important science in this question because of that.
Ofcourse a study is questionable at best when it has no links to the field of science that they used to obtain their research results.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miste

stuff...

---

This all started because there is a false theory that a large portion of female MMO players play as males. Or that there was an equal portion of females that do gender bending compared to males. I spent some time trying to find other studies. But they were all pre-WoW and both percentages were much lower. I found this study for the sake of argument. I never claimed it was perfect or said their conclusions were accurate. But I am reasonably sure that the researchers took an accurate sample, can count, and can identify gender IRL.

Please stop misinterpreting what I said about girls announcing their gender to strangers. I thought I already made that clear and other people agreed.

Pointless, who cares about it anyways....?

We all know that in FFIXV

There are only two important distinctions between players, FRENCH PLAYERS AND NORMAL PLAYERS...

Now I got the idea and you can advantage of it! Go make the thread "How to detect French players before they speak?" or "How to avoid meeting with French players" / "Manual of how to make your time with french players more passable", let's go!





Hey.. If you even read this, I was joking, don't kill me, merci beacueapu?

When I'm playing MNK, I'm a dick. When I'm playing NIN, I'm a bitch.

When I'm playing WAR, nobody runs their mouth.

Play WAR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

false theory that a large portion of female MMO players play as males.

---

False, eh? In FFXIV it's certainly not false. You, like many others; only consider it ''false'' because you assume that women don't play male characters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adrian74

We all know that in FFIXV

There are only two important distinctions between players, FRENCH PLAYERS AND NORMAL PLAYERS...

---

Surely you mean in LoL. Don't forget to add the spanish tho. And german. And everything else just for good measure.

Wow, I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked out outright deleted yet.

In the meantime, check out the Idea Channel's take on gender in games: https://youtu.be/oMBYFXZknGQ