Can you please Ease Up on Atma now?

Jesus, people drop on the thread without even knowing about what we are talking. *sigh*



Btw, you guys cry too much. No wonder the CMs don't give attention to you.

*drops out*

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Originally Posted by Nyhmrae

Again, YOU are NOT the person who decides who has any kind of say in this thread. Is this thread yours? No. Even then the OP of anything doesn't get to decide who says what on a public forum. Telling other people they can find better gear without having to do Atma is being a troll? That's rich. I watched my FC do Atma, I'm learning from them and SKIPPING IT because I KNOW I can get better gear by another method. It is my OPINION that adjusting RNG for Atma would turn it into a hand out. Telling people what they can and can't do in a thread is you being a rear end. I'll tell you again, when I first quoted you, your edit wasn't in there. I know how to tell time. Once more, as soon as I call you out for making an assumption about me, you get ugly.

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This entire game is a handout. See: sands and oils from hunts.

Old stuff is supposed to get outdated with the vertical gear model FFXIV uses. As such, Atma is supposed to become much easier as time goes on. Any other opinion is wrong and contradicts the basic premise of gear progression this game is built on.

Atma is nothing more than a mindless grind and time sink requiring no skill whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Nyhmrae

It is my OPINION that adjusting RNG for Atma would turn it into a hand out.

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Just so I can understand where you're coming from, exactly what harm is there in making the fake upgrade easier to get?

i have a life outside of FF. it sucks sitting here running fates all night and not getting squat !!

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Originally Posted by Nyhmrae

Correction, sweet cheeks, I don't have my Atma. I skipped it like a smart person.

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And just like that, all your posts have become irrelevant. If you want people to take your posts seriously after saying that, you'll need to experience the Atma grind for yourself. The Atma grind is supposed to be casual, which it is as you're doing level 3-30 FATE's, but because of the RNG, you can spend an impossible to know amount of time on it.

-Leviathan in 2.2 was challenging and it rewarded you with weapons and sometime's a mirror for winning. Leviathan has the Echo now, making him somewhat easier.
-Weathered and Unweathered weapons back in 2.2 required you to beat T7 and T8. T7 for the UAT and T8 for the Sands. Ever since 2.3, you can get UAT, Sands and Oils from ST and Hunts. Making something that required skill and effort easier to acquire than the Atma weapon.
-Atma offers no change from Zenith, requires you to fight low level FATE's and be at the mercy of RNG. Nothing has changed. Atma is literally the hardest weapon from 2.2 to get now.

Basically, something that requires (or required) skill and effort to get is easier to acquire than something that requires no skill and minimal effort (people have said they watched Netflix or something, right).

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Originally Posted by Nestama

-Leviathan in 2.2 was challenging and it rewarded you with weapons and sometime's a mirror for winning. Leviathan has the Echo now, making him somewhat easier.
-Weathered and Unweathered weapons back in 2.2 required you to beat T7 and T8. T7 for the UAT and T8 for the Sands. Ever since 2.3, you can get UAT, Sands and Oils from ST and Hunts. Making something that required skill and effort easier to acquire than the Atma weapon.
-Atma offers no change from Zenith, requires you to fight low level FATE's and be at the mercy of RNG. Nothing has changed. Atma is literally the hardest weapon from 2.2 to get now.

Basically, something that requires (or required) skill and effort to get is easier to acquire than something that requires no skill and minimal effort (people have said they watched Netflix or something, right).

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this x10


I WANT to continue my relic quest and I want to enjoy it on a slow pace knowing that i am progressing through the quest and adding value.. but guess what? right now i'm totally blindfolded not knowing when the eff i'm going to see an Atma drop.. one day maybe one day when i go beserk from all the fate grind..in fact i've been trying to deal with it and accept it by doing a small portion of run-around-like-a-headless-chicken-to-participate-in-fates everyday so i get to do other daily content, its taking forever and i truly hate it for blocking me from the next stages..

SE please eff'ing understand that I want to ENJOY the relic quest....

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Originally Posted by Nestama

The Atma grind is supposed to be casual, which it is as you're doing level 3-30 FATE's, but because of the RNG, you can spend an impossible to know amount of time on it.

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So.. You are saying RNG makes a game not casual? I would think games such as Candy Crush and the majority of other casual games want to have a word with you.

Just check the people who has been stuck on some levels for months, just because of RNG.

This part of the relic is casual in that you can do it whenever you want, for as little or long as you want each time.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

And just like that, all your posts have become irrelevant. If you want people to take your posts seriously after saying that, you'll need to experience the Atma grind for yourself. The Atma grind is supposed to be casual, which it is as you're doing level 3-30 FATE's, but because of the RNG, you can spend an impossible to know amount of time on it.

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I don't see how telling other people how they can acquire gear without doing Atma is irrelevant. I did my research, and I already said that I was skipping Atma because I know of other, better ways to obtain my gear. Just because someone hasn't experienced it themselves doesn't make them irrelevant. *shrugs*

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Originally Posted by wesley69

i have a life outside of FF. it sucks sitting here running fates all night and not getting squat !!

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I have a life too. Got all mah Atma regardless.

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Originally Posted by Nyhmrae

Contradicted yourself, too.

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There is no contradiction.
Relic weapon is a vanity item.
Yes it may be BiS for the extremely short time until the next raid tier (and subsequent item level increase) gets released, but apart from that it's merely a pretty stick (or club depending on your class).

I'm simply discussing questionable design choices, which is the purpose of a forum thread.

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Originally Posted by Nyhmrae

I don't see how telling other people how they can acquire gear without doing Atma is irrelevant. I did my research, and I already said that I was skipping Atma because I know of other, better ways to obtain my gear. Just because someone hasn't experienced it themselves doesn't make them irrelevant. *shrugs*

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Research =/= experience. It's like when you do Leviathan/Ramuh or Coil. You may know the fight from what you read or saw, but you could flop like a fish on land because you've never experienced it for yourself. Titan HM/EX is a very good example, actually.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

So.. You are saying RNG makes a game not casual?

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That's not what I'm saying at all. If it sounds like I'm implying this, I'm not.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Research =/= experience.

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In many cases you may be right.
In this case: you are not.

One doesn't need to be a rocket surgeon in order to assess the playtime needed to get a Novus/Nexus, compare that with equivalent or better weapons and come to the conclusion that in it's current state, everything past Zenith simply isn't worth the time invested.

One certainly doesn't need to try it out in order to validate the above assessment.

I speak of Atma, though. If someone is judging it based on what they've heard but not what they've experienced and claim the RNG is fine as it is... I don't know how to end that sentence nicely :/

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I speak of Atma, though. If someone is judging it based on what they've heard but not what they've experienced and claim the RNG is fine as it is... I don't know how to end that sentence nicely :/

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And I don't know how else to say nicely to you that I've watched FC mates do Atma and learned that it's inferior for obtaining gear. So instead of pouring my time into doing Atma, and therefore wasting my time, I've instead decided to utilize better methods to upgrade my gear without having to pull my hair out nearly so much. So, tell me this, why are you and other folks so hell bent on grinding Atma when you know you can get better gear by other means? The BiS is only BiS by so much and it's practically negligible. Nexus weapons are inferior to Coils weapons.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

There is no contradiction.
Relic weapon is a vanity item.
Yes it may be BiS for the extremely short time until the next raid tier (and subsequent item level increase) gets released, but apart from that it's merely a pretty stick (or club depending on your class).

I'm simply discussing questionable design choices, which is the purpose of a forum thread.

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My apologies, Granyala, I misread what you were saying.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

In many cases you may be right.
In this case: you are not.

One doesn't need to be a rocket surgeon in order to assess the playtime needed to get a Novus/Nexus, compare that with equivalent or better weapons and come to the conclusion that in it's current state, everything past Zenith simply isn't worth the time invested.

One certainly doesn't need to try it out in order to validate the above assessment.

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Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Nyhmrae

So, tell me this, why are you and other folks so hell bent on grinding Atma when you know you can get better gear by other means? The BiS is only BiS by so much and it's practically negligible. Nexus weapons are inferior to Coils weapons.

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The better question is why are you against the idea of changing the RNG drop rates of Atma (or improving the drop rate from what might be 1%) to progression (let you know you're about to get an Atma)? You just said the Nexus isn't BiS and the Atma itself is just a Zenith, so what's your deal?

Again, I already have my Novus.

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Originally Posted by Nyhmrae

So, tell me this, why are you and other folks so hell bent on grinding Atma when you know you can get better gear by other means?

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Can only speak for me:
I did it because I like the looks.
Also I essentially did it as a test to see if it really was so horrible that it warrants the rather consistent complaining.

I was one of the lucky ones that landed in the targeted range, so no horror stories from me. Although I can attest to the sheer boredom of the FATe grind.
If I had a busier RL right now I would never have bothered and kept my Zenith for transmog purposes.

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Originally Posted by Nyhmrae

And I don't know how else to say nicely to you that I've watched FC mates do Atma and learned that it's inferior for obtaining gear. So instead of pouring my time into doing Atma, and therefore wasting my time, I've instead decided to utilize better methods to upgrade my gear without having to pull my hair out nearly so much. So, tell me this, why are you and other folks so hell bent on grinding Atma when you know you can get better gear by other means? The BiS is only BiS by so much and it's practically negligible. Nexus weapons are inferior to Coils weapons.

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"This weapon is inferior and farming Atmas it is a waste of time! I'll never do it!... But don't change it, it's fine!"

Sorry, what?

I would like to remind everyone but first let me as you this. In your journal exactly where is the relic quest located? It is located under SIDE I repeat SIDE story quests. This means you do not have to do it, it is optional, it has no affect on how you progress thru the game's story. So seeing as it is an optional quest to under take and you dont like how it or what it entails than you dont have to do it and can drop it. Now you chose to under take the quest either complete it or dont it is as simple as that. There is no reason for every little thing for players to run to the dev's and ask or demand or what have you to change something.

If this wasnt an optional quest line than I may say hey ya go head change it but I cant agree and I hope the dev's leave it as it is because it is an OPTIONAL quest line, you are not required to do it. This is not something that is broken it is not a bug, it dosent affect the story, you want it changed because you dont like (insert whatever reason you want).

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Originally Posted by maxthunder1

blah.

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I would like to remind you that it being side, main, optional, required, whatever you want to add here, is irrelevant. Many people are displeased, many people are giving feedback, that's all there is to it.

Just because it's a side story doesn't mean it shouldn't be improved.

Just so it sinks in: It doesn't matter if it's optional or required, that's completely irrelevant to the topic.

@maxthunder1
And yet the devs will nerf optional dungeons (Amdapor Keep and Pharos Sirius) or give optional hard content the Echo, so people can catch up.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

I would like to remind you that it being side, main, optional, required, whatever you want to add here, is irrelevant. Many people are displeased, many people are giving feedback, that's all there is to it.

Just because it's a side story doesn't mean it shouldn't be improved.

Just so it sinks in: It doesn't matter if it's optional or required, that's completely irrelevant to the topic.

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No it is not this is a quest you dont have to do but you wanna have it changed to something you like. Even in XI after the nerf the grind was there. Regardless if it is bis now or in the future it dosent need to be made easier. If this game was a few years old it would be understandable but it isnt its only 1 year old and these are new parts to the relic quest its way to early. This is an endurance can you handle it?

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Originally Posted by maxthunder1

Becausecharacterlimit

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I don't think I've ever seen someone try so desperately hard to miss the point. Both you and Nyhmrae are two oblivious peas in a pod.

While the entire quest-chain is optional, no single step should be designed in a way that it blocks you due to bad luck thus wasting all effort previously spent.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

@maxthunder1
And yet the devs will nerf optional dungeons (Amdapor Keep and Pharos Sirius) or give optional hard content the Echo, so people can catch up.

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Yes they nerf the content because players cry it is too hard when it isnt or because they dont like something. Yoshi was surprised back in december maybe november 2013 that so many player's had a relic, and thats because it was way to easy to obtain said relic's. Now you are given content regardless and you complain about said content but than again if it was easier player's would complain there is not enough content, go figure there is no pleasing any of you.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

I don't think I've ever seen someone try so desperately hard to miss the point. Both you and Nyhmrae are two oblivious peas in a pod.

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I understand very well but players have suggested 30 or 50 fates, and i suggest keep the rng and if you dont get a drop by 200 fate's you are given 1 atma. Now at the same time you see your progression, new player's get helped, and you cant blow thru said content in a day. Some one said well 200 fates at 5 mins each is 8.33 days if you slam it is unrealistic but it isnt. So lets make it 75 fates a zone plus you still get the chance for a lucky drop. Again 75 fates plus a lucky drop, and lets not forget new players as well as your progression would that be enough or do you still want it a smaller number of fates for a gaurenteed drop? Anything smaller than 75 fates per zone is too little.

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Originally Posted by maxthunder1

snip

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And what is wrong with changing a quest to something people like? Or do you enjoy doing things you don't like? "these are new parts to the relic quest its way to early" Are you really saying atma is new? Are you ignoring the fact that animus and novus (which came after) were made easier to finish? Do you understand there's ZERO difficulty in spamming lvl 10 fates? And more importantly: do you understand the reason why atma is still there is not to be a challenge, but a desperate action to revive the long dead fates? That's the only reason why they don't want to ease up atma, it's nothing about the step itself and more about their poorly designed fate system dying again if people are not forced to do them.

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Originally Posted by maxthunder1

I understand very well but players have suggested 30 or 50 fates, and i suggest keep the rng and if you dont get a drop by 200 fate's you are given 1 atma. Now at the same time you see your progression, new player's get helped, and you cant blow thru said content in a day. Some one said well 200 fates at 5 mins each is 8.33 days if you slam it is unrealistic but it isnt. So lets make it 75 fates a zone plus you still get the chance for a lucky drop. Again 75 fates plus a lucky drop, and lets not forget new players as well as your progression would that be enough or do you still want it a smaller number of fates for a gaurenteed drop? Anything smaller than 75 fates per zone is too little.

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Do you understand the current system allows some lucky folks to get 12 atmas within 12 fates? Why aren't you asking for a way to prevent this from happening if your concern is atma being obtainable too fast? And also, did you know that atma offers no upgrades to your weapon?

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Originally Posted by maxthunder1

I understand very well but players have suggested 30 or 50 fates, and i suggest keep the rng and if you dont get a drop by 200 fate's you are given 1 atma. Now at the same time you see your progression, new player's get helped, and you cant blow thru said content in a day. Some one said well 200 fates at 5 mins each is 8.33 days if you slam it is unrealistic but it isnt.

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To be fair: my assessment that someone would need 200 FATEs for all Atmas was a bit unrealistic as well.
From my own experience I'd hazard the guess that 2-3 would even reach your 200. Most would drop way before that.

Even a 200 Fate failsafe would be a good compromise.

BTW: Dat helmet... seriously... no sense of fashion, my dearest!

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Originally Posted by Alukah

And what is wrong with changing a quest to something people like?

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Some Faction would always QQ. Can't please everyone.
Atmas are there to support the FATE system.

I think the atma grind does a fairly decent job of supporting the low level FATE system so new players can get some help/population to get FATEs done.

That being said, I wouldn't mind some clarity on the drop chance or some kind of guarantee (a la after 200 fates, you get an Atma). Atma was one of the reasons I burned out on FFXIV when that patch launched. I've only recently come back and taken a more relaxed approach to grinding them -- and working on getting the unidentified tomestone weapon. As a casual player who mainly does DF groups and doesn't raid Coil, I don't mind a bit of a grind for the atmas but it can get very frustrating after awhile. But I have most of them now :-)

Or... 1500 Myths per Atma purchase?

Ummm...Nexus IS best in slot.

Why are u so concerned about Atma when:

1) Nexus step is way shorter and easier than Atma?
2) Atma is an already outdated weapon?
3) All the other steps have been already nerfed?

Seriously... nobody seems to care that with all the newest updates you can:

1) get myths in no time, hence you can get books/alexandrites very fast
2) get alexandrites with your Animus+ weapon, no matter your stage
3) get alexandrites via hunts as well

So, basically, EVERY step you struggled so much have been already nerfed (including the Animus books part), yet you seem to be perfectly fine with it.
So, what's the problem in FIXING that monstruosity as well?
I bet all my money that giving a fixed amount of FATEs per areas, even high (say, 50 each atma) would surely revamp the FATE hunts, repopulating the whole areas once again.
That would create a brand new time sink with people doing 600 Atmas just for their second Atma Weapon or... even more!

The problem with Atma is not the time, nor the efforts... it's the "unfair factor".
Fix the feature and make it fair for everyone.
I can guarantee, everyone will spend their time with it.

PS: I am one of the very lucky guys who got their atma in a matter of days.
I took a week or so with half of the atmas obtained within 1-5 FATEs.
The only three atmas which gave me problems were: Virgin, Fishes and Water-Bearer.
I was very lucky with them, but, still, I find this feature the worst part of this game.

Man, with all the bitching done in this thread, people could have farmed a full set of atma by now!


I think people are looking at this wrong...
Atma is the most difficult part of this game. Its mental endurance. Its solo content. No one is going to carry you through it. You can't get better by practicing. Its all about fighting your brain.

Atma is not the most difficult part of this game and it should not be, actually.
Coil T9 is.
Maybe Ramuh EX is.
But surely NOT Atma farming, especially for those who got their Atmas after 1-5 FATEs (like me!).
So, what's your point?

I spent 3 days just to farm Nexus lights.
Hours and hours and hours in whatever Primal HM.
I was fighting my brain ("Omg... 1500 to go... 1000 to go... 500 to go!!!), it was brainless, it was long, it was boring, but I was relatively happy with it.
Why?
Because I KNEW that EVERYONE was forced to farm THE SAME on THE SAME conditions, so I was getting tired as everyone else in that mad train of lights.

Atma is simply a monstruosity because it is deeply unfair and with no rules nor alternatives at all.
ALL the other steps have rules/alternatives (for example, you can get myths for books in whatever way you want, you can get Alexandrites via NPC, Daily, Hunts, FATEs) but NOT this one.
Even my cat could design a better quest to conquer this weapon... which... is... basically... A ZENITH! XD

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Originally Posted by zemogFC

Man, with all the bitching done in this thread, people could have farmed a full set of atma by now!


I think people are looking at this wrong...
Atma is the most difficult part of this game. Its mental endurance. Its solo content. No one is going to carry you through it. You can't get better by practicing. Its all about fighting your brain.

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The thread was started 4 days ago. According to some people, they would not have looted a single Atma yet.

Also, for the 20 bazillion time already, you cannot merge the concept of difficulty with pure luck. Doing Lv.10 FATEs is not difficult.
Damn, already 45 pages and people still don't get it.

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Originally Posted by zemogFC

Man, with all the bitching done in this thread, people could have farmed a full set of atma by now!

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I started doing my Warrior's Atma. Then after getting the 5th one, having a new coat of paint and being heavily blocked by Animus means that I'll never upgrade it any further. As such, I've stopped trying to finish it now.

http://i.imgur.com/4qDyLSQ.jpg

SE relies far too much on Fates and RNG to slow down/frustrate players. Its the lazy way out, like most of what they seem to do.

Keep in mind, with RNG, the possibility does exist that you will NEVER see a drop. You could do Fates for 6 months, and if the SE server doesnt get a "win" result, you'll go without. Add to the fact that computers dont deal well with random numbers in the first place, and that I doubt SE put much effort into the formula they use...... I can see why some people are suffering with the current system. Those who did get lucky, naturally, could care less.

Make it a challenge, make it take time, but for Moogles sake, get rid of the RNG and stop being lazy when it comes to designing content.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

That's not what I'm saying at all. If it sounds like I'm implying this, I'm not.

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Can someone tell me what is not casual with it? I see similarities in pretty much all aspects compared to casual games.

The "wax on/wax off" crowd are almost pathetically funny in defending this RNG system. At this point there is nothing to be gained from keeping this artificial barrier in place save for preserving a few elitists' shockingly fragile egos.