Time limit to re-enter dungeons

I like this. I have waited enough while playing up to this point and I would like to play more than I wait when I'm logged in.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Your views on hardcore honestly are irrelevant. But if someone can complete all the content in a week by spamming it non-stop it is poor game design. A mmo must be unbeatable by both hardcore and casuals, if it is not is simply must be considered seriously lacking in content.

We hardcore are upset because we feel with no limit, the game will never have enough valid content... there for always be a game where it forces us to quit for months at a time waiting on content. This is an issue in many games, while it is ok for casuals like those you described who play a online game for a few hours a week. For a gamer it is simply not enough.

The limit does not have to be a time cooldown, link it to the company related activities or something. Make it like you need X company current to buy a token which lets you enter the dungeon or something. This makes you focus, makes you do all the content added, makes you not spam 1 thing non-stop. You know tie the various game elements together, was one of the great things XI did.

In the current form I can guarantee you this will happen. Cap level players will spam the crap out of the dungeons. If the drop rates are decent people will rage the content is a joke like the NMs are. If the drop rates are not decent... it will piss off the casuals and the hardcores will get burnt out form spamming it and quit anyways...lose lose there.

The main issues in the game are balancing the limiting factors... leves are main source of leveling so limiting those is bad, dungeons are endgame not limiting those at all means you spent 3 months of work for potentially 1-2 week of content..... that is really really bad.

The solution is not to put cooldowns like leves, but to have some entree limiting factor like credits or a currency from doing other activities in game. That way while you can do them as much as you want, but eventually you have to do the rest of the game as well to continue to get access.

All reward and no work will lead to the game simply crashing and burning. SE has to imbue a feeling of true accomplishment into the game... or it simply stands no chance. Cheap thrills or unchallange material that simply rewards us for playing the game will not work.

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I agree that there should be more content. I'm just saying that these dungeons are a good start. Besides, we all need an "amusement park attraction" while we wait for SE to build upon the foundations it lays in 1.18, if only to do something other than damned leves. Until the battle and crafting systems are fully formed and fleshed out, good content can't exist. Content will need to be balanced for whatever battle, crafting, and gathering systems they eventually create.

But we're on the right track!

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Originally Posted by Petori

I like this. I have waited enough while playing up to this point and I would like to play more than I wait when I'm logged in.

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Nvm you just... nvm i laughed lol.

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Originally Posted by Visch

Nvm you just... nvm i laughed lol.

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Huh? Does this post have a meaning or was it the most pointless quote I've seen for a while. Or did I just not get it?

being able to do them all day is awsome turn of events, will enjoy doing them all day long. maybe they plan on hashing out lots of these dungeons, after all there is like 10-20 blocked off areas, and vids of them on youtube lot of them probably could be dungeons at some point.

i do like the idea of content that is without time lines and restrictions, i always hated how everything was only twice a week in ffxi.

All I can say is... do I wear my armor, or do I wear my lalafel swimsuit when the time comes?

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

All I can say is... do I wear my armor, or do I wear my lalafel swimsuit when the time comes?

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Swimsuit, definitely.

Gotta look sexy for those cutscenes in the dungeons.

I'm reserving judgement on this until we know exactly how this is going to work. We still don't know how bad the drop rate is going to be or whether we have to collect tokens/items inside the dungeon in order to spawn bosses for possible drops etc.

Although my first reaction when I saw there was only a 5 minute timer on re-entering was- "What! You got to be kidding, that's rubbish" I realise that was probably more with my FFXI head on.
I played FFXI for 5 years and in that time of course got used to the fact that a lot of content (Salvage due to Assault points, Dynamis due to the 3 day cool-down, Limbus with the same 2-3 day cool-down; I haven't played since October so can't remember exactly how many days before you could re-enter) was only accessible a couple of times a week. This meant obtaining gear was often a long, hard slog.

Although I enjoyed that at the time, as I did not know anything else (!) and the sense of achievement was pretty great at the end... I thought to myself that after 4 years of doing "endgame" like that I personally don't really want a complete repeat of that. Endgame in FFXI (Dynamis, Einherjar, Salvage, Sky, Sea etc) for me and the LS I was signed up to became like a second job.... I'm too old and busy for that nowadays! ^^

I don't mind some dungeons, areas or bosses being like this of course (if such balancing is seen to be required/necessary). Of course then, as in FFXI, I will accept the fact that the content for these will require more committment, time etc. But, I am sort of glad that the first bits of content being put into the game are open and free to all to do as often as they like. Lets face it, we've spent enough time waiting for something to do other than leves, crafting, a few quests for poor rewards and kill a few NMs.

People that are online a lot are going to spam it of course, the same that "hardcore" Linkshells constantly farmed Sky or Sea or whatever for pop items to spam NM pops in these areas. So they'll get the gear before I do... do I care? Nope. So they will have nothing to do sooner than I will! I will get the gear eventually, and having fun and something interesting to do is personally for me the most valuable thing in an MMO (gear is nice, but if I don't have fun doing the event/requisite for it then why do I want to torture myself when I get home after 8 hours in the office?). Besides, people with this mindset will always end up spending a huge amount of time in order to be the "first" to gain the gear. I don't think anything can really change that.

Again, it could turn out that we need to farm drops (coins, tokens, credits whatever) inside these dungeons before we can even attain gear drops or pop bosses. I just want to try it out and then decide if I think the system is flawed or not. :)

Wow 41 pages and still counting of people whining over freedom to choose how and when they enter dungeons? lmao This is the best recent quote so far

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Originally Posted by Katie

You guys are so silly.

Just because the dungeons reset every 5 min doesnt mean you have to play them every 5 min.

If your worried about blowing through them in a day then... Limit yourself!!! Why does mommy dev team have to restrain you!

Play how you want. Blow through it in a day? Go for it. Take your time and enjoy milking it? Go for it. Stop crying.

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Plus I just gotta say it again... who cares if other people get their gear faster? (Maybe mind your business and do what you need or want to do?!) And why penalize the player if there is not enough content to go around? Such a contradiction and a$$ backwards. Just Glad Yoshi is all about freedom and less about hand holding so that everyone can "play the way they want"!

Tons of scenario's listed already as to why it's much more beneficial as well, go look rather than using the illogical overused 'excuses' (Cause they aren't reasons that's for sure >.<) such as "Other people/myself will Blow through content too fast" or "I have to do them back to back since they allow me too!" or "Mister John Doe who isn't my friend and has no relation got all his gear first which doesn't effect me in any way! That's not fair! Now I NEED to go run the dungeon" ... Anyways done now, it can't be explained any simpler lol Some people in here though are beyond logic and rationalization.

See ya in 1.18, Ta-Ta :P

I think you have 2 camps here. The first camp are those that are all grown up and don't feel like they need artificial boundaries and restrictions forced on them by the developers. The other camp... well the other camp likely still have a mandated bedtime.

My two cents.

Ok really had to log in at work to post this =x Couldn't really resist!

First of all.....

In terms of FFXIV it will be always likes this...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...nimation-1.gif
[Edit: Is there a way to display those pictures directly? :S]

There will always be the Pro's and Con's for both side, so why are people taking up arguments 3940394 times? :O

Some people think the game is unplayable right now, some think the opposite of course. But it will be always likes this. We all got different opinions, which makes us MORTAL xD

Fighting against each other won't be any good on these forums. The Dev Team is actually counting on the players whose are still playing for feedback and bug reporting. It's certainly pissing me a little bit off, that the game is currently developed for PS3 Release. But on the other hand, that's another customer base which needs to be attracted.

There's still a lot of fixing to do. We have to be patient. I know it's hard. I can't wait to have the same fun in this game I've had in FFXI. But in FFXI there were good times and of course bad times.

Yoshi's Team got a big task to solve. Satisfying the hardcore and the casual gamer at the same time. That only works if one content gives an advantage to the hardcore players and a disadvantage to casual gamers, and vice versa.

I think the hardcore gamers will be probably mad about the simple fact, that casual gamers will "eventually" (we don't know it yet until the game evolves a bit more) get the good loot on an easier way than the hardcore gamers.

I'm not sure if it's wise to give players "better" items/rewards which have plenty time for playing and the other players will always stay a tiny bit behind.

i.e. Hardcore: Weapon with Double Attack
Casual: Weapon with Occ. Attacks 1-2 times

Something down the line like this.... Everyone needs the chance to get the same items. Otherwise people might be getting mad at it. On the other hand there should some accomplishment...
It's a never ending story, I swear. There will always be a back and forth between hardcore and casual. We'll see what Yoshi's team is pulling out to let us have a great time, with either dungeon spamming or w/e xD

Honestly I don't want that SE is turning into a blizzard-like behvaiour. People always moan in the forums there and blizzard "fixes" that within a few weeks. I kinda liked (and sometimes disliked) how the way FFXI was treated. SE always made their "own" thing and never really listened to the players, at least it felt like it.

Yoshi needs to find a way which fits to both player bases, which is hard as hell. Unless he pulls out some general idea how to fix this.. like....

I dunno.. I have no clue how this can be done to satisfy everyone equally. There will always be bad and good decisions. Just wait until SE is adding more stuff and don't play if you dislike it. It's your choice. Not to sound like a fanboy here, I want a great game like you guys, but we have to be patient.

If I would be a comm rep. I'd have closed this thread by now since there won't be an end anytime soon xD

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

... go outside? Engage a member of the opposite/same sex?

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Quoted and corrected!

Oh and... Post count+1! xD

To me this sounds like a good thing. Alot of you are complaining that it is so short? Why?
To me if a person wants to camp out a dungeon to get all the virtual items for their character, more power to them! I don't have the time to camp a dungeon all day long. And if ppl can put forth the time to do so they should be rewarded by getting the items sooner than everybody else!

Personally when I only have 2hrs a weekday to put towards a game I don't want to only be able to play once and call it quits for the day.

This is about a fair of a way to split it.
What I would be more insterested about is will we be able to get in. With only 2 gungeons will there be a limit on the amount of instances that can be ran at one time. Most instances there is to control lag! If you have everybody in the game coming to do the same dungeons, it is unlikely we will be able to get in. :P

I would hope that the figure this out shortly after they launch it, or what would be totally awesome of they add in a queuing system before they launch.

That way you have to go to the physical location to enter the queue, maybe possibly pay to queue. (yes I know other games offer this service for free, but this is FF and SE here. You know how they work) Then once you are in the queue you don't have to wait around to get in to play!

You can go about your business and when your turn is up you get a pop up message that the instance is ready. You got 3mins to respond. If you say yes, you are teleported to the instance with your party members you listed in the queue!
Say you don't respond you are automatically entered in the next available queue. (this repeats 3 times). If you fail to respond 3 times you fall off the queue list altogether and have to go back to be enlisted again.

One thing I really gotta add is that is pretty funny to see many posters here just jumping to "lol get a life / girlfriend / boyfriend / whatever" when they're out of proper arguments.

I think SE already said there won't be such a queue system ;O Sounds like a medium dungeon-browser to me =x

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Casual is the way to go.

The changes aren't really changes for the casual though. Too bad.

Short re-enter time means = those with more time on their hands benefit the most. This isn't casual.

Casual would be a weekly lock-out timer with excellent drop rates and forgiving difficulty.

Similar to how abolishing fatigue and introducing exp bonus for not playing helps hardcore and punishes casuals. Yet people don't get it. Brilliant.

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Or provide a way to schedule to put yourself in queue in advance. That would be casual. and if I was having great difficulty getting into a dungeon because I have to wait longer than the time I have available to play. Well forget that. I would rather schedule a time when I have time available and then get in that way.

That was an epic thread, both sides had good arguments despite the insane amount of bullshit.

I'm still against the 5 min re-entry tho (since there aren't currency required or other kind of restrictions), because I believe rules and restrictions are what makes games, sports and other activities fun and challenging (ex: imagine a baseball game without strikes or what FFXI BCNMs would have been without beatsmen seals requirements).

I will really lmao if the quest needs to be active to enter the dungeon, and the quest has a real time restriction.

People really just need to chill out and play the game. Is it really that big a deal that the game doesn't obnoxiously restrict your entrance to a dungeon? Is it really that big a deal that you only have to take 5 minute breaks between dungeons? How about everyone complaining just shuts up and plays the damn game. This is what they decided on, deal with it and keep playing or leave. If you're not having fun with a game, you stop playing it. If you're that hung up on being a special elitist snowflake that you can't handle the thought of other people having the gear you do, this game probably isn't for you.

I seriously hope the dev team stops listening to a lot of what this forum brings up. Listen, take suggestions with a grain of salt and take a step back. Because we've been given small chances to voice our opinion most here think they're entitled to have the game made in their image.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

One thing I really gotta add is that is pretty funny to see many posters here just jumping to "lol get a life / girlfriend / boyfriend / whatever" when they're out of proper arguments.

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Get a life and a girlfriend!

Bom ve-lo por aqui pequeno Ash lol

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Originally Posted by Dubont

MAKE UP YOUR MINDS! （╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

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OH SNAP, DUBONT FLIPPED THE TABLE.

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Originally Posted by Richard

if this is accurate then I think that was the seal on the coffin for XIV.

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This is quite possibly that dumbest thing I have heard today, this in no way in game breaking. It would be dumb to make you wait a prolonged period to enter dungeons. If you want wait times for everything you do go back and play FFXI me on the other hand I like to be able to enjoy the content when I want to enjoy it not when some dumb time limit says I can.

What if the materia system is the future of elite gear, and this dungeon is literally a training ground for what is to come? I could see plenty of limited future content built around the company system where you purchase tokens and are allowed access to specific boss fights/dungeons where the best gear could come from. This is down the road after they really are done balancing stats and such and have introduced the jobs. What we have now is just filler/demo of what is to come, and yes it sucks to be a hard core gamer playing the never ending waiting game but in the end when PS3 launches and they start charging I think it will have been worth the wait and right now I'm enjoying the process.

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

What if the materia system is the future of elite gear, and this dungeon is literally a training ground for what is to come? I could see plenty of limited future content built around the company system where you purchase tokens and are allowed access to specific boss fights/dungeons where the best gear could come from. This is down the road after they really are done balancing stats and such and have introduced the jobs. What we have now is just filler/demo of what is to come, and yes it sucks to be a hard core gamer playing the never ending waiting game but in the end when PS3 launches and they start charging I think it will have been worth the wait and right now I'm enjoying the process.

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I think you are spot on with this. How can these dungeons really be too much more than some fun (hopefully) filler when (a) the battle system changes aren't finished (b) the job system isn't implemented (c) the class re-working hasn't been done (d) the materia system isn't implemented ?

For all I know, this dungeon may be difficult enough that I don't want to do it more than 1-2 times a day, haha.

While both sides make fair arguments, even if some people tend to be asses about it. While I do not consider the dungeons actual intended end game content, I think of them as current end game material until FFXIV starts bringing in the major end game content. When this content is actually released, I am willing to believe that dungeons will be thought of like dungeons are in WoW. Go through them once or twice a day to level your class then go to the major event later in the evening with your Linkshell. That is why I am not treating it like end game content, even if it might be the best thing to do end game right now.

The game is still in building block mode, and I guarantee in the future, dungeons will be thought of no more than a quick play through before you take on major content. What people are acting frustrated about is that they believe dungeons are going to be the center of FFXIV's content, which it is not going to be, Yoshi has said that plenty of times.

As for hardcore and casual perspective, it really goes either way. As someone said earlier and I loved "Its sad you need a mechanic to force restraint upon yourselves." (I think that is how he put it.). Yoshi is actually letting people decide if they want it to be a casual play through or blast right through it. I hate to keep comparing to WoW, but FFXIV's dungeons are set up almost exactly like it. You know when Cataclysm came out, it only took me two days to get from 80 to 85 and then took me 4 days to get myself up and ready for raids.

The point I am trying to get at is, if you are really that hardcore, you are going to blast through the content in no time, not matter how the restraints are. I don't want to see a game that caters to people who can blast through content in two weeks. The people are there, but you are the minority. The majority want a playstyle that does not involve their RL being hindered in the process. Example being FFXI, when I was younger and had time on my hands, I stayed up all night every night simply sitting and getting HNM claim timers. Yes the rewards made it somewhat worthwhile, but I don't want a game that requires me to sit all day and wait for something to happen, I want a game that I can log on and do something, then log off and be done.

I understand hardcore players need to come into mind, but I don't believe the obsessed players should rule how this game goes. Ahh look I am saying too many random things! X_X

One more thing people need to understand is that FFXIV was built on the basis on catering to the casual audience. That concept is being changed more and more, but that was the basis of it, to be a FFXI'esque type game without a huge requirement of your time. The concept was great, but executed poorly, because even casual players were punished in the process. Yoshi-P isn't trying to make a pure hardcore game, or completely change what the original dev's had in mind, he is trying to make a game where you can play casually, and at the same time, be better rewarded if you are a hardcore player. This is how every MMO should work. Is it all in place yet? Not really, but the way things are going, I have high hopes this will be a possibility in the near future.

Like I said, hardcore and casual both have valid points, but it is what it is and it is still a process till we get major end game content, so try to find a way to enjoy yourselves till that time comes. Maybe Ifrit Battle will do some of that justice! Haha. But just think of dungeons as dungeons and not any major end game content.

Sorry for the long post, don't blame if tl;dr. :P

It makes sense to lock content to timers to pace progress. But a year down the road when there's a lot more content, from then on it won't really matter.

I was under the impression that these dungeons are going to be the primary method of leveling up in a party.. Wouldn't a wait time make it the same as levequests?

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I was under the impression that these dungeons are going to be the primary method of leveling up in a party.. Wouldn't a wait time make it the same as levequests?

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Absolutely yes. But logical statements like that just make trolls angrier.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I was under the impression that these dungeons are going to be the primary method of leveling up in a party.. Wouldn't a wait time make it the same as levequests?

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If they are that easy that you could grind through, then it is possible. We dont know the Timer on Repop's, We dont know the deal in general of the amount of Mobs, we dont know anything in general but 2 Things:

1. Re-enter is 5 Minutes
2. Yoshi himself stated that the Dungeons will be HARD!

So we will see.

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Originally Posted by Linkurrra

To me this sounds like a good thing. Alot of you are complaining that it is so short? Why?

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We know that the people who are happy with this will be complaining they exhausted the content quickly, then comes the "told you so" group as well as the "SE screwed up again" crew.

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Originally Posted by Nero

If they are that easy that you could grind through, then it is possible. We dont know the Timer on Repop's, We dont know the deal in general of the amount of Mobs, we dont know anything in general but 2 Things:

1. Re-enter is 5 Minutes
2. Yoshi himself stated that the Dungeons will be HARD!

So we will see.

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Yoshi-P HIMSELF also stated that he wanted dungeons to take part of the workload from groups that go out linking Leves. Just saying. And it doesn't matter how hard Dungeons are, as long as the SP is equivalent to the difficulty the SP will be worth it.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

We know that the people who are happy with this will be complaining they exhausted the content quickly, then comes the "told you so" group as well as the "SE screwed up again" crew.

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I'm happy with the 5 minute timer and I'll be just as happy when/if I get everything I need out of the dungeons. I have lots of other things I still need to do, please don't lump everyone together like that.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

We know that the people who are happy with this will be complaining they exhausted the content quickly, then comes the "told you so" group as well as the "SE screwed up again" crew.

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We are usually on the same side of the fence, but this time I disagree with you, though I know you are an intelligent person and definitely not just another troll.

My problem with the arguments for the "Lockout timers make the content last longer" is that we shouldn't need these artificial restrictions to make content last longer. Lockout timers don't create MORE content, they just create the illusion of more.

Am I the only one afraid that the drop rate of the better gear/drops in the dungeons will be like .0001% because there's no downtime? -_-

As an aside, super happy there isn't a 24 hour wait or some ridiculous BS. Glad to see SE moving away from the 'time consuming = challenging' mentality.

I know some of us were hoping for dungeons to be an alternative to grind parties, but without scaling caps, 99% of people won't want to gimp themselves with lower classes / un-optimal pt setups to go through them.

People did not learn from this apparently ,

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...highlight=5min

About time ya all realize were is this boat going.Some people really should move on already , it cant be clearer.

Disclaimer: i Do Not take sides on this discussion simply because i do not give a rarab tail about this, im worried about the quality of the content not re-enter timer.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Yoshi-P HIMSELF also stated that he wanted dungeons to take part of the workload from groups that go out linking Leves. Just saying. And it doesn't matter how hard Dungeons are, as long as the SP is equivalent to the difficulty the SP will be worth it.

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I dont see people doing that, if its to hard. Because there are easier ways than exping with linking leves. A regular SP-Group on regular Mobs can easy pull out 30k+/hour. If you get wiped out and have to recover and Stuff i will go back to regular SP-Grinds. But yeah.. like you say.. if the SP is equivalent to the difficulty, then it is possible to do it. But im also a little bit afraid of how the respawms work. We will know in a couple hours! .. Going to grab some Snacks now for the Fun-Night.. Have fun all of you and enjoy the new Stuff. ^^

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Originally Posted by Nero

I dont see people doing that, if its to hard. Because there are easier ways than exping with linking leves. A regular SP-Group on regular Mobs can easy pull out 30k+/hour. If you get wiped out and have to recover and Stuff i will go back to regular SP-Grinds. But yeah.. like you say.. if the SP is equivalent to the difficulty, then it is possible to do it. But im also a little bit afraid of how the respawms work. We will know in a couple hours! .. Going to grab some Snacks now for the Fun-Night.. Have fun all of you and enjoy the new Stuff. ^^

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Yeah, my argument on leveling in dungeons definitely hinges on the fact that you will get worthwhile SP in a dungeon. I make no pretenses that I have any idea what it is going to be like, I just wanted to bring up another point.

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Originally Posted by Nero

If they are that easy that you could grind through, then it is possible. We dont know the Timer on Repop's, We dont know the deal in general of the amount of Mobs, we dont know anything in general but 2 Things:

1. Re-enter is 5 Minutes
2. Yoshi himself stated that the Dungeons will be HARD!

So we will see.

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Unless "hard" = unbeatable with a 5 minute re-enter time everyone will have every item they want in a month. If they want to keep people happy until the game is "fixed", spoon feeding baddies is not the way to do it.

Drop rates =/= difficult of content.

Drop rates = Chance of item dropping once conditions are met.

I know you really want to be a special snowflake Visch but this game isn't for people who want to be elitist jerks who lord their "uber lootz" over people and think they're better than everyone else because of it.