Make healers DPS with four or five healing actions

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

As it stands now, nearly all essential healing can be done by other jobs besides healers. They really do not know what to do with healers, this is the core problem. Once I saw Savage and Ultimate get cleared with no healers, I knew the entire system is completely broken and in need of a major rework, but we all know that won’t happen.

Sooo… look forward to more healing Warriors, etc. I want to heal more but we have 10 years of content to show that we are needed less and less. I can see the day when tanks and healers are gone, replaced with specific actions in all DPS jobs. Sad day that will be, sad day.

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This is more an issue with encounter design and less about class kits. Yes, I agree Warriors and Dancers shouldn't be able to heal, but it doesn't matter who does the healing when high end content is all about damage avoidance and pre programmed attack patterns where taking as much as a hit means the battle will fail. Which leads to what you say: in order to keep up with current boss design, casters will eventually have to play as pseudo RDPS, and tanks and Healers will just become DPS with extra utility.

I also find it ironic, how Yoshida's mocking response, "just go play Ultimates", is even less relevant and insulting now than before. You're telling Healers to go play the content that makes it safer to NOT use one. Healers funnily enough get to do more stuff in normal content than endgame.

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Originally Posted by Aldath

how Yoshida's mocking response, "just go play Ultimates"

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Indeed, the tone of his response may very well sum up his attitude towards the players.

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Originally Posted by Jatoi

hahaha


no. lol lmao

there should be ways to make healing fun that should be considered by the devs. admittedly DPS jobs put me to sleep. especially brainless ones like RPR and SAM. at least healer keeps me awake for the most part. maybe add one more damage spell to make it less monotonous and a couple of other things for WHM as an example, but there are ways people have suggested to make healing more fun.

...have you tried Black Mage?

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I guess this is why a newer design like Sage tried to lower annoyance by using a modifier spell that would alter spells after such, to compress the number of keybinds. Pecking at too many keybinds is unfun, so less keybinds, but equivalent combinations possible.

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Originally Posted by SquishyPlushie

I guess this is why a newer design like Sage tried to lower annoyance by using a modifier spell that would alter spells after such, to compress the number of keybinds. Pecking at too many keybinds is unfun, so less keybinds, but equivalent combinations possible.

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And yet it only applies to three spells, only one of which is regularly and consistently useful. E. Diag/E. Prog are two of the worst healing resources on your hotbar, beating out only regular Diag/Prog and Pepsis.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Kind of depends, I played GW2 for a bit at launch I remember healing boiling down to personal responsibility? I have it in my head they changed direction with that later though?

Blade and Soul's early Summoner would probably be a better reference point.

You're a DPS, but you also have team healing and support elements baked into your kit.

My own personal take is that SE need to:

A) Hire more job design staff urgently or at the very least take on someone like Mythic in a consultancy level and effectively buy whiteboards of design ideas from them

and then B) Go play Warhammer Online's community server coupled with some SWOTR.

Both did an incredible job with their healers, Warrior Priest might be the most enjoyable healer in any MMO ever in my book, whilst SWOTR also did an excellent job of delivering varied and engaging healers that weren't dependent on unga bunga aoes to have something to do.

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There are dedicated healer Now. I play geal tempest and heal firebrand. The thing about gw2's healer is that.. Your buff to your team is too effective. Like, a dps's damage output can triple if your healer can properly maintain all the relevant buff, and as a healer, you need to maintain all these buffs after handling mechanics. I am not sure if that's exactly the best idea. I had fun, So l am okay with that system. Makes me feel important that my buff can triple my team's damage output. Also, there is another thing. Some old encounters in gw2 has tanks. And usually tank is also the healer. That can really keep you busy. It was a lot of hardcore fun tanking deimos And soulless horror.

Do people genuinely not realize how many damage abilities healers have?

WHM: Glare, Dia, Assize, Misery, Holy
SCH: Broil, Bio, Ruin2, Energy Drain, Art of War
AST: Malific, Combust, Earthly Star, Macrocosmos, Gravity
SGE: Dosis, EuDosis, Plegma, Toxicon, Pneuma, Dyskrasia

It's more how little they are used other than the baseline nuke.

Granted, OP is a baiter, but...yeah.

If you want an ARPG with supports instead of healers, you can try Guild Wars 2. That was their original design. Granted, they eventually decided that didn't work at all and so instituted a trinity in the end anyway. So apparently it's not such a great system/idea after all.

Make healer DPS ???? Okay.... why do you hate healing so much and still try play healer?
If SE does this they should instead delete holy trinity and stop pretending already.

Also not everything is for everybody. With this in mind please make healers just what they are supposed to be: supporter and healer instead of "i like DPS but want healer ques please make healers DPS, so that i can play DPS with fast ques and F all the healer and supporter players because i dont like it. Please stop having things you like. THX" (a proud memeber of the GCBTW)

Sorry for the salt but hell no to make healers DPS. Whats wrong with a healer or a support role ? We have DPS galore... what do you want with my AST as a DPS??? Thats f-ed up....

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

Make healer DPS ???? Okay.... why do you hate healing so much and still try play healer?
If SE does this they should instead delete holy trinity and stop pretending already.

Also not everything is for everybody. With this in mind please make healers just what they are supposed to be: supporter and healer instead of "i like DPS but want healer ques please make healers DPS, so that i can play DPS with fast ques and F all the healer and supporter players because i dont like it. Please stop having things you like. THX" (a proud memeber of the GCBTW)

Sorry for the salt but hell no to make healers DPS. Whats wrong with a healer or a support role ? We have DPS galore... what do you want with my AST as a DPS??? Thats f-ed up....

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Sadly, too many people are saying this.

Go to the healer forum and be amazed as that's what they're asking for in almost every thread.

I'm with you, for the record. I don't get it, either. I like healing and this game used to actually demand it back in ARR and HW when healers WEREN'T just "green DPS". The idea we can't have encounters that require more healing when freakin' Ala Mhigo dungeon requires more healing is just absurd.

Also, if you haven't already, someone put up a survey for this kinda thing. Feel free to put your thoughts in: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ishlist-Survey

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Originally Posted by SquishyPlushie

I guess this is why a newer design like Sage tried to lower annoyance by using a modifier spell that would alter spells after such, to compress the number of keybinds. Pecking at too many keybinds is unfun, so less keybinds, but equivalent combinations possible.

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You mean a severely cut down dark arts - on a caster no less.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Sadly, too many people are saying this.

Go to the healer forum and be amazed as that's what they're asking for in almost every thread.

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I've been there. Heck, I post there with some degree of frequency. But no, what I see people ask is to either bring back the feel of older damage kits, or to at least expand beyond Glaroilificosis + Combiodiasis. That doesn't require the farfetched kit that OP proposed here, and most people over in the healer section are happy with a handful of frequent spells we rotate through.

Heck, you've seen my SCH, you even admitted yourself that it sounded fun to play, even if the DoTs were not to your tastes. What I had didn't require some overly complex DPS rotation, just a handful of abilities that interact with each other in small ways, that's all that most veteran healers I see are asking for. The survey you linked to even says as much in the results for all healers except AST, which instead asks for more buffs to give.

Also we were definitely green DPS back in HW, what with Alexander having strict enrages that forced healers to DPS, as well as SCH just doing absurd damage in dungeons, Holy stun still being a thing that made mincemeat of large groups, etc. We just had a better balance of healing requirements and DPS engagement during downtime.

People were okay with no-DPS healers in casual content in earlier periods of the games life because healing requirements were higher and DPS was harder to maintain. Ironically, making the DPS kit so simple along with lower healing requirements has forced people to take part in damage because there's no excuse not to; there's no Cleric Stance to risk your healing output, there's no multitude of DoTs to watch, very few damage cooldowns to track, every nuke cast now guarantees a weave window and some movement, just press Glare or you're dead weight. It's easier to forgive someones poor play when it's legitimately harder to keep up with what's going on.