Ardbert's Party vs the Scions Analysis

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

You do know that introducing new party members doesn't need to be all that complicated, and I'm not even going to touch on what you've brought up about the WoL having to relearn to trust in the food and drink others provide to him. The easiest scenario really is for the WoL to just go to a bar and mingle with others who are pursuing a mark of some kind.

Games like FFVI have us recruiting Shadow from a bar in some opportunities. In FFIX you meet Freya at the bar in Lindblum. Various Tactics game make use of taverns for the recruitment of mercenaries and other party members. This isn't a foreign concept that needs a lengthy argument against it. They had the chance to do something better but instead all we got in 6.1 was the same tired old cast all over again.

They did not follow through with their teasing of new characters and the game will not be better off if something isn't done to remedy the situation with the scions' writing.

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I bring up the food cause when's the last time you went to a bar and didn't order food and or drink? That the last time the Wol went to one where we weren't asking a "Have you seen this boy?" ala T-1000 or meeting someone it didn't go so well due to having been served a drugged mug of ale.


The Wol also has a lousy track record of meeting and working with people we can trust. Look at the Crystal Braves where the majority were people who would have gladly served us up on a silver platter if it ment they'd get something of value to them for it. I doubt the WoL would have trusted Unhikalhi if Urianger hadn't told us just because Elidibus had been linked to the boy that we shouldn't give him a chance. When was the last time the WoL was introduced to someone by someone we didn't already know beforehand? Probably Estinien when Aymeric introduces him to us if you hadn't already done the DRG storyline yet. The guy at the start of ShB doesn't count as he doesn't come along with us and we just want to get our bearings before heading off into the direction of civilization.

The party only recruits Shadow in a bar due to being told we could find someone who could help us at one.

I agree that it wouldn't have to be complicated, but you can't ignore that the WoL wouldn't be at least somewhat leary of people. At least the Wol hasn't started to pick up the habit of being knocked unconscious by three small children like the player character in XI does.

This still doesn't excuse the way in which 6.1 went about things or why so little has been done with the Scions by this point in the story. They need to re-examine and think about what exactly they want to do with these characters and expedite the addition of new party members if nothing of substance will occur with the current cast. Magical girl transformation sequences do not constitute meaningful substance. We deserve better than this.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Well the first thing to do to get away from the scions is to not go right back to them the moment you have a chance. They could have had the exact same storyline except instead of the scions showing up, you could have other characters introduce themselves. A warrior wanting to help their village, a dickish rogue who overheard 'treasure' who winds up helping the group for a cut of the loot, etc etc. Not sure what's so hard about all that.

Personally I'd prefer of the main character had things they actually wanted. Maybe the WoL needs some fertilizer for their farm and heads to the nearest village for some chocobo-shite. On the way they hear a trader in distress and <new character> trying to fend off a bunch of bandits. They promise all the manure they can carry if the WoL will just help them with the bandit bullies.

Perhaps it's a bit lofty after saving the known universe but it's not my fault that's where they went with their story. I was all for returning to basic adventuring after such a grandiose overarching story but here they are planning to dimension hop.

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For me 6.1 was fine with how we interacted with the Scions. We got to keep our promise to G'Raha about taking him in an adventure at the first opportunity. We end up getting most of them off the open world map by the end of it and have them be busy with things. Heck we didn't even touch the twins. Now the only Scion that kind of felt hamfistrd in was Urianger. Which tends to be more of a writing problem. As when he's not exposition dumping he's showing up out of nowhere and handing us something that we need or will end up using soon.

Right now the devs have four Scions off to the side doing things two we know we will be revisiting at some point in 6.2 which I'm sure will just set up the trial storyline. G'Raha and Krile are fenced off in the Myths storyline. We haven't touched base with the twins and Julius in Garlemald. Urianger is busy delivering his report to the Loloprits. Not sure how long that would take. Then there's Thancred who I swear is another set up for something else we can't connect to as all we know is he couldn't track down an old mentor of his.

All the meanwhile we gained Deryk, and Snoegeim who if Deryk doesn't end up being one of the twelve are two new people they can bring into other things. We're already bringing in Vrtra for the void storyline. When we get back to Garlemald I'd be shocked if we didn't drag Julius if not Maxima along for part of it. I also doubt we're done with Lorens.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

This still doesn't excuse the way in which 6.1 went about things or why so little has been done with the Scions by this point in the story. They need to re-examine and think about what exactly they want to do with these characters and expedite the addition of new party members if nothing of substance will occur with the current cast. Magical girl transformation sequences do not constitute meaningful substance. We deserve better than this.

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We are just getting started with Post EW Story.
So little has been done, because we are literally just getting started. Dont know what you are expecting this early.

New party members. Local-regional stakes. No world hopping or anything to do with the other shards. That's literally all I wanted but it didn't happen in favor of bringing back the Scions with no new additions and putting the Void in the spotlight.

No more Sharlayans please. Or people adopted by Sharlayans. Or people educated at Sharlayan schools.

Sink that boring city into the ocean and give us a more interesting culture to interact with.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

New party members. Local-regional stakes. No world hopping or anything to do with the other shards. That's literally all I wanted but it didn't happen in favor of bringing back the Scions with no new additions and putting the Void in the spotlight.

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We, just, got, started.
Most, if not all if that can still easily happen later down the line.
At least let the story actually get started 1st before you start hating on it, we are still in the beginning stages

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

The story of Endwalker imparted the lesson that suffering is the key to resilience and that no matter the strife you have to move on. However, the Scions don't go through that much strife over the course of the MSQ - especially when compared to parties like Ardbert's. They constantly have the consequences of their actions handwaved away with increasing speed and this is compromising the impact of the message.

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They dont go through much strife over the story? Alright lets jot what we got eh?

The twins- lost their grandfather, years of dealing with a stubborn father that practically broke the family, Alphinaud having put into his place majorly with the failure of the Crystal Braves, Alisaie who worked her ass off helping the infected people in Ahm Araeng, dealing with the loss of friends. They basically put themselves a lot on their shoulders for the sake of helping others, and they both constantly had to deal with the dangers, trials and tribulations alongside with us.

Thancred- Lost Minfillia, who was like a daughter to him, had to deal with having his aether severely weakened but still pushed keeping up with the group, having to both take care and deal with Ryne whom gave him such a confliction of emotions, almost died fighting Ranjiit.

Urianger - Lost Moenbryda which still affected him all the way up to EW, kinda like the twins he kept himself burdened with trying to do what he felt was right even if it meant going behind the Scions back.

Yda/Lyse - Loss of Papalymo, her sis, and her lost identity with trying to help and reconnect with the people of Ala Mhigo

Y'shtola - Lost her eyesight (which to be fair wasnt a complete loss since she looks fine with just seeing aether, and its not really a big deal ) but she always kept putting herself in harm's way to protect others, as we've seen how much we memed in her "dying" so much in this story lol.

The hell are you even getting at of them not "facing the consequences of their actions?" Nobody cares if you dislike or hate characters in this game, but at least come up with more grounded reasons rather than these vague bs takes. Or dont really, you can also just be honest and say "I just dont care for them" which you HAVE, but you're also pretending like there's tangible reasons for them being "bad characters". Own up to your opinions.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

We, just, got, started.
Most, if not all if that can still easily happen later down the line.
At least let the story actually get started 1st before you start hating on it, we are still in the beginning stages

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So? I should not have to wait even longer for the basic expectations I had for that patch. Endwalker was marketed as the conclusion of Season 1's storyline, so naturally I expected 6.1 to deal with new things and characters, not old ones. Opening Season 2 with us going into the Void isn't what I or many others wanted. The natural progression from Endwalker would've been a transition into a self-contained regional conflict similar in scale to Heavensward with a new party. Not this. This isn't a good beginning for what was supposed to be a fresh new start.

Either they should have made their intentions more clear prior to 6.1's release or followed through with the things they said.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

They dont go through much strife over the story? Alright lets jot what we got eh?

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I have already responded to this here:

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

At any rate, given the themes presented in Endwalker that went on to promote the suffering of mankind as necessary and critical for one to grow resilient – this theme falls flat when the party is largely from a privileged background and have suffered little in comparison to other characters, especially when compared to Ardbert’s party. The sole exception to this would be Estinien, being both a victim and participant of the Dragonsong War with his earlier years briefly described here. Our other remaining party members have either had their moment of loss so many years ago that it no loner resonates with long-term players (the twins and their grandfather, Urianger and Moenbryda), have been associated with widely disliked characters (Minfilia), or have had their sacrifices over the course of the game invalidated or have no bearing on the plot (Y’shtola’s blindness and fakeouts, G’raha Tia’s survival).

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

So? I should not have to wait even longer for the basic expectations I had for that patch. Endwalker was marketed as the conclusion of Season 1's storyline, so naturally I expected 6.1 to deal with new things and characters, not old ones. Opening Season 2 with us going into the Void isn't what I or many others wanted. The natural progression from Endwalker would've been a transition into a self-contained regional conflict similar in scale to Heavensward with a new party. Not this. This isn't a good beginning for what was supposed to be a fresh new start.

Either they should have made their intentions more clear prior to 6.1's release or followed through with the things they said.

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What did they not follow through with again, what "intentions" did they mention?
The Disband? You know that still happened right? They arn't operating as The Scions of the Seventh Dawn.
Endwalker was the conclusion of the Hydalyn X Zodiark Saga; which indeed concluded. So far I think they did exactly what they said they would do.

I dont remember any mention of transitioning into a self-contained regional conflict similar in scale to Heavensward with a new party. Thats some stuff ya'll put into your own head...this wasn't marketed. Not that I have anything against your personal headcanon of where you want the game to go, but you really shouldnt get yourself hyped up to the point your create things in your head like that, then get mad and deam it bad, when thing barly even started.
And..yes, you do have to wait, just like the rest of us. FFXIV spreads out its content and narrative in Patch Cycles.
Been this way for...idk, 10+ years?